The 2016 Post-MLS Cup/MLS Season Thread

[Shakes McQueen]

Well,

We were defeated via the exercise in pure chance that is soccer penalties, but we can hold our heads high that we outplayed them for the majority of that 120 minutes, even if we ultimately couldn't slip one by them.

I just wanted to create this thread for people to share their thoughts about this playoffs, this final, and this season. The Final loss aside, I think we have to feel pretty great about this team going forward. They really came into their own in the post-season, they all seem to love our coach, and Altidore has really found himself again.

So here's to the 2016 Reds. Thanks for one of the best sporting nights of my life, in the 2nd leg against MTL. Thanks for finally rewarding us as fans, after the years of drudgery and cynicism.

[sn0re]

It sure has been a good season. Personally I didn't think we would make it this far in the playoffs (maybe conference semis?). It will be interesting to see what happens in the off-season given the expansion draft and the re-entry draft

[T-boy]

Altidore has become a solid favourite, he had an outstanding end to the season. Seba was great but tailed off at the end of the season or some reason (tiredness, maybe he doesn't like the cold weather games?).

Also I think Zavaleta has been most improved through the season - I'm not sure how many times I shouted "great tackle Zavaleta" through the playoffs.

[ensco]

Sports is so often about tiny fractions and what ifs.

Morrow missed his PK by a hair's breadth. Ricketts' misfire on that volley in extra time, Altidore's looping header being scooped off the line ... we will take those to the grave.

Seba. He was off because the cold had a huge impact on the game. Lodeiro was invisible too, same as Osorio, and all the skill guys ex maybe Cooper. Nobody on either side got a single clean shot off during the game, even in PKs only Lodeiro and Morrow really got hold of the ball.

Seattle played for penalties and it worked. It looked like there was a sniper at the game the way their guys went down and stayed down.

I effing hate losing this way though. A plain old loss I would be more philosophical, but this is the worst.

[Shakes McQueen]

Sports is so often about tiny fractions and what ifs.

Morrow missed his PK by a hair's breadth. Ricketts' misfire on that volley in extra time, Altidore's looping header being scooped off the line ... we will take those to the grave.

Seba. He was off because the cold had a huge impact on the game. Lodeiro was invisible too, same as Osorio, and all the skill guys ex maybe Cooper. Nobody on either side got a single clean shot off during the game, even in PKs only Lodeiro and Morrow really got hold of the ball.

Seattle played for penalties and it worked. It looked like there was a sniper at the game the way their guys went down and stayed down.

I effing hate losing this way though. A plain old loss I would be more philosophical, but this is the worst.

This was pretty much my reaction too - the cold weather must have seriously affected Seba's game, as this would have been his first serious exposure to it (since obviously we never made it this deep before). Hopefully it's something he can acclimate to, to some extent.

And losing a 0-0 game to penalties is just the worst. Like you said, I'd have almost preferred a concise loss, over this coin flip.

[stevep]

This was pretty much my reaction too - the cold weather must have seriously affected Seba's game, as this would have been his first serious exposure to it (since obviously we never made it this deep before). Hopefully it's something he can acclimate to, to some extent.

And losing a 0-0 game to penalties is just the worst. Like you said, I'd have almost preferred a concise loss, over this coin flip.

no i disagree, it would have been far worse and devastating and disappointing to lose 2-0,2-1 or some other real score in real time or even in the extra time when we were the favoured team going in to the game.

I really don't consider this a loss, i don't. it was a tie game that we dominated.

we were then asked to play another game a game of who can score the most penalty kicks, each team gets five, that game we lost
I wouldn't be really happy today if we won that penalty kick game,

[Gringo Starr]

no i disagree, it would have been far worse and devastating and disappointing to lose 2-0,2-1 or some other real score in real time or even in the extra time when we were the favoured team going in to the game.

I really don't consider this a loss, i don't. it was a tie game that we dominated.

we were then asked to play another game a game of who can score the most penalty kicks, each team gets five, that game we lost
I wouldn't be really happy today if we won that penalty kick game,

pks are a skill, so is stopping them, it's part of the game and we came out the wrong end, we had a great season but it's a loss at the end and it sucks any way it happens

[notthesun]

Giovinco apparently asked for the sub. I don't think he completely healed from his late season injury. Enough to play and even play well, but all the minutes caught up to him.

It was a combination of not creating quite enough, not being able to finish the few chances we made, and having bad luck on top of it. We were and are the better team, but the better team doesn't always win.

This sucks. We need to make it back next year.

[pprzerac]

Thanks for the great season. We are no longer the bottom feeders of the MLS. TFC till I die!!!

[James17930]

I'm not sure if this is the thread to bring this up in (and I'm not sure if it's a '20/20 hindsight' thing or a 'sour grapes' thing), but:

Did Vanny make a mistake with his subs?

I mean, think about it – why bring on Johnson and Cheyrou so early? This is the only time I can remember where it seems he got a bit nervous and went for a more defensive mindset before we actually went ahead. Ricketts was probably brought on way too late.

He should've stuck to the same plan he did all season, which was to be the aggressor, and brought Ricketts on for Osorio first in around the 70th minute and made the other subs as necessary as guys got tired.

What do you guys think?

[PAOK17]

I'm not sure if this is the thread to bring this up in (and I'm not sure if it's a '20/20 hindsight' thing or a 'sour grapes' thing), but:

Did Vanny make a mistake with his subs?

I mean, think about it – why bring on Johnson and Cheyrou so early? This is the only time I can remember where it seems he got a bit nervous and went for a more defensive mindset before we actually went ahead. Ricketts was probably brought on way too late.

He should've stuck to the same plan he did all season, which was to be the aggressor, and brought Ricketts on for Osorio first in around the 70th minute and made the other subs as necessary as guys got tired.

What do you guys think?

I was having the same debate with people around me. The first two subs guaranteed that we weren't going to lose unless we went to penalties. It might have been better had we made only one of those subs and then brought in Rickets to ensure we didn't have to go to penalties. But really when Cheyrou and Johnson both came on they didn't really make any real threat in our half.

At the end of the day, this doesn't feel like a loss because what did we do to lose? Or better yet, what did Seattle do to beat us?

I would have gone with Rickets earlier because I've seen this script before. Team dominates the game only to lose on penalties (btw I've said this for a while now but soccer really needs to figure a better way of settling games than this-replays are the best but that would never happen. Unlimited rolling subs in extra time? I don't know).

On a more general note, we shouldn't be too disappointed for the year. We could have easily won the Supporters Shield with our talent. We also defeated our biggest rival in the most exciting 2-legged series this league has ever seen. Look at NYRB. Consistently at the top of the table for the past 7 seasons and no MLS Cups.

[theaub]

I'm not sure if this is the thread to bring this up in (and I'm not sure if it's a '20/20 hindsight' thing or a 'sour grapes' thing), but:

Did Vanny make a mistake with his subs?

I mean, think about it – why bring on Johnson and Cheyrou so early? This is the only time I can remember where it seems he got a bit nervous and went for a more defensive mindset before we actually went ahead. Ricketts was probably brought on way too late.

He should've stuck to the same plan he did all season, which was to be the aggressor, and brought Ricketts on for Osorio first in around the 70th minute and made the other subs as necessary as guys got tired.

What do you guys think?

I didn't mind Johnson for Osorio, but the second you don't go to Ricketts with the second sub that means you're taking off a DP or defender if you want him on. Considering how it was pretty clear from the off that Seattle was playing for penalties it was rather baffling to go to Cheyrou. Basically just playing into their hands.

Even more disappointing when Ricketts came on and we almost immediately had two of our best chances of the match. The what-if for me of this entire match will be if you had Ricketts running at their defenders from the 75th-80th minute onwards instead of the 100th

[flatpicker]

I am so thankful to TFC for an exciting season. It was a wild ride.
Here's hoping they can stay healthy next season and dominate.

Losing in a shootout is a tough way to go down,
but sports do their sporty thing sometimes.

Honestly, if it had to be a team other than Toronto,
I'm ok with it being Seattle that takes the Cup
because I respect their passionate fan base.

Huge props to the team for working their butts off this year.

And big thanks to all of you.
It's been a blast going on this journey with you all.
BMO has never been more electric than it was this year.
Let's keep the passion going into next season.

[Gringo Starr]

I'm not sure if this is the thread to bring this up in (and I'm not sure if it's a '20/20 hindsight' thing or a 'sour grapes' thing), but:

Did Vanny make a mistake with his subs?

I mean, think about it – why bring on Johnson and Cheyrou so early? This is the only time I can remember where it seems he got a bit nervous and went for a more defensive mindset before we actually went ahead. Ricketts was probably brought on way too late.

He should've stuck to the same plan he did all season, which was to be the aggressor, and brought Ricketts on for Osorio first in around the 70th minute and made the other subs as necessary as guys got tired.

What do you guys think?

Right subs, wrong order

we are at home, Seattle playing for kicks, like you said stick with what worked and bring on Ricketts earlier and just go for it. Have cheyrou ready to go in case it's to open. Subs felt tentative.

i was was dreading kicks as Irwin didn't stop one all year but wasn't expecting seatle to be that good with their kicks.

[gate7]

Right subs, wrong order

we are at home, Seattle playing for kicks, like you said stick with what worked and bring on Ricketts earlier and just go for it. Have cheyrou ready to go in case it's to open. Subs felt tentative.

i was was dreading kicks as Irwin didn't stop one all year but wasn't expecting seatle to be that good with their kicks.

Agree 100%.....Cheyrou should have been the Last sub just like in the game with Limpact.

[reggie]

finals always seem to be a lock down kinda of game.im ok in how we played.
only a month before training camp i hope this club doesnt have a hangover like most clubs do after a run like this.

[Auzzy]

I was nervous before the final, but strangely not so excited. I think it was hard to beat the experience vs. Montreal, the ups & downs over two legs, and especially the 2nd game in Toronto of course. Also the series vs. NYC before that -- I can barely remember it, but it was great. I was worried that the final would be a grind, and it was.

First thing this morning, I wanted to listen to Legend TFC.
https://www.reverbnation.com/redcity...594-legend-tfc

[Lennon]

I was nervous before the final, but strangely not so excited.

I felt the same way. The Montreal game was my final.

As much as it sucks losing the way we did, losing to Montreal on our turf and having to watch them in the final would have been even worse.

[tfcleeds]

Hasn't really sunk in until now that we lost the Cup Final at home. So disappointing. I really thought there was only going to be one outcome last night, that we would emerge victorious. But things happen. All the same, I want to congratulate TFC on a great season - a season we'd been waiting 10 years for. They made us believe again, and I would prefer to think that this isn't the end, but only the beginning of something great.

[ensco]

I just keep seeing that Frei save over and over again.

[whositwhatnow]

I just keep seeing that Frei save over and over again.

save of the year

[Canary10]

Giovinco apparently asked for the sub. I don't think he completely healed from his late season injury. Enough to play and even play well, but all the minutes caught up to him.

It was a combination of not creating quite enough, not being able to finish the few chances we made, and having bad luck on top of it. We were and are the better team, but the better team doesn't always win.

This sucks. We need to make it back next year.

He was slamming shit when he came off. I don't know. Those subs just seemed strange to me.

[Auzzy]

He was slamming shit when he came off. I don't know. Those subs just seemed strange to me.

He was slamming shit because he's a competitor, wanted to keep going, but couldn't.

"It’s not like I take him off because I want to," Vanney said. "I look at him and he gives me the sign he can’t go anymore. When he feels like he can’t go, then he feels like he’s more of a liability to the group than anything."
https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2...r-mls-cup.html

[C.Ronaldo]

Cheyrou was an odd sub to make so early. Then to ask hik to press so high was also odd. Cold was a factor, but the poor reffing killed any skill on the night. Bear hugs, hand grabbing, short pulling was the theme on the night.

The ball didn't bounce our way either

PS field didnt look as good as we'd had hoped it would. An earlier winter and argos in playoffs would have destroyed it

Im not too gutted we lost on PKs. It was pretty obvious what Seattle was aiming for. They can have it if thats the way its won. I'll take the Montreal vs Toronto as the best game in mls history

[Canary10]

He was slamming shit because he's a competitor, wanted to keep going, but couldn't.

"It’s not like I take him off because I want to," Vanney said. "I look at him and he gives me the sign he can’t go anymore. When he feels like he can’t go, then he feels like he’s more of a liability to the group than anything."
https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2...r-mls-cup.html

He wasn't a liability. We needed his penalty taking ability.

So many what ifs.

[flatpicker]

He wasn't a liability. We needed his penalty taking ability.

So many what ifs.

Such a tough call when there was still so much game left to be played.
I think the right decision was made.

[ensco]

Such a tough call when there was still so much game left to be played.
I think the right decision was made.

Ricketts created two great scoring chances. We were millimeters away from the subs being genius moves.

The problem with a Ricketts for Osorio move earlier is that Seattle was more dangerous on the counter than the boxscore suggests, they almost sprung Morris 3 or 4 times, and going 3-4-3 would have been a big gamble.

It's so easy to be a Sunday morning second guesser.

[noimpactinmtl]

Ricketts created two great scoring chances. We were millimeters away from the subs being genius moves.

The problem with a Ricketts for Osorio move earlier is that Seattle was more dangerous on the counter than the boxscore suggests, they almost sprung Morris 3 or 4 times, and going 3-4-3 would have been a big gamble.

It's so easy to be a Sunday morning second guesser.

Going with a 3-4-3 is essentially giving up the central area for width. Vanney doesn't want to give up the central area simply because of how dangerous Lodiero is.

The subs are fine considering Seattle is parking the bus while Toronto wants three central mids. We were the better team for a 120 minutes, but we lost to a shootout.

2016 is a very successful season and considering our 8 years of ineptitude, I would say we can claim the moral victory.

[Carter]

He wasn't a liability. We needed his penalty taking ability.

So many what ifs.

You have zero clue what was going on in his body, to make this assumption. Strained calf? Torn muscle? You are right about so many what ifs. But truth of the matter is that he saw himself as a liability and wanted to be taken off.

[ManUtd4ever]

He wasn't a liability. We needed his penalty taking ability.

So many what ifs.

I love Seba but he was off last night, unable to penetrate and conceding possession the entire match. Credit to him for signalling to Vanney that he couldn't continue. He could have made the difference in PKs but I understand Vanney's decision to try and seal the game in regulation by bringing Ricketts in...and it almost worked. Ricketts set up Altidore for that header that resulted in a heartbreaking save by Frei, and he came within inches of scoring the winner himself in extra time.