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  1. #1231
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    Not from November to February they donít

  2. #1232
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    There is no difference. And Mikmacdo is right. The new pitch was laid last fall and the Argos have not come anywhere near BMO Field since then.
    MLSE could have put in Desso or SIS two years ago - they thought they didnít need it. However with February CCL play thereís no way around it. Again, this has nothing to do with the Argos.

  3. #1233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza_55 View Post
    There is no difference. And Mikmacdo is right. The new pitch was laid last fall and the Argos have not come anywhere near BMO Field since then.
    MLSE could have put in Desso or SIS two years ago - they thought they didnít need it. However with February CCL play thereís no way around it. Again, this has nothing to do with the Argos.
    It wasn't that "they thought they didn't need it." It's that there are risks of a different kind once the pitch is stitched. It was all discussed at the time. With the stitching, you can no longer quickly replace the pitch, especially portions of it due to damage. This has also been explained by groundskeepers with hybrid turf in other locations. (TFC had a replacement grass pitch growing & ready to go near Hamilton for that purpose.)

    However perhaps TFC realized that replacing portions of the pitch isn't a great remedy anyway. Damage in the past years has been widespread but erratic. There wasn't a specific area of wear that could have been swapped out during the season to really help much. And swapping out the whole grass pitch in the middle of the season would be difficult and risky, considering the heavy use. So I guess they decided that it's more important to hold the pitch together with the hybrid fibres, rather than plan for quick replacement.

    I agree the problems earlier this year weren't really related to the Argos. (Only indirectly: the damage of last year meant the pitch had to be replaced over the winter; the winter was long and harsh for portions, which made that difficult despite all the tech investments.)

    Note that this whole thing is still an experiment in action. If the pitch gets churned up by a couple of heavy downpours during Argos games, we are definitely going to have to play the rest of the season on mud painted green. But hopefully it won't come up in chunks anymore like in the past.

    Azteca for example had a failed hybrid turf installation, due to heavy usage: https://news.co.cr/nfl-game-at-aztec...company/77364/

    I can't find the other article anymore: right now the Packers are the only remaining NFL team with hybrid turf. There used to be a second NFL team with hybrid, and their groundskeeper explained the lengths they went to maintain it, because you can't swap sections during the season. Between NFL games, they would re-plant portions in place, from both seed, and planting thousands of grass seedlings that they sprouted off-site in preparation. That worked somewhat because that stadium had no other use between NFL home games; therefore they often had two to three weeks to work with & let grass re-grow onsite.

    You can't do that at BMO with the schedule. Basically we all have to keep our fingers crossed!
    Last edited by Auzzy; 03-31-2019 at 07:52 PM.

  4. #1234
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    I looked into it. Both the Denver Broncos, and the Pittsburgh Steelers, used to have hybrid plastic/grass at their home fields. They both gave up on it, and switched to 100% natural grass. In Denver that was only in the past few years.

    Hybrid is not a panacea specifically for gridiron (NFL / CFL).

    Info from Pittsburgh when they switched back to all grass:

    Steelers Notebook: Natural grass is back at Heinz
    Friday, August 14, 2009
    By Ed Bouchette and Chuck Finder, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
    The Steelers and Cardinals played last night on a new surface at Heinz Field that was installed this year. You may have heard the name -- grass, with a lower-case "g." The DDGrassmaster surface that had been used since 2003 was yanked out in January.


    Actually, the 100 percent grass sod that was installed is old. The Steelers already had played on the "new" grass in Heinz Field in the AFC championship game in January. That sod had been laid on top of the DDGrassmaster.


    After the Steelers' victory against Baltimore in that game, the sod was shipped back to Tuckahoe Turf Farms of New Jersey, where it was nurtured and then shipped back and installed at Heinz Field.


    The Steelers played on a purely grass surface in their first two seasons at Heinz Field in 2001 and '02.


    One big reason for the change is the field now can be patched with turf late in the season. DDGrassmaster could not be patched, which is why the club laid an entire field of turf over top of it late in the past two seasons


    Read more: http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/09226...#ixzz5jnki1k8E
    Of course MLS doesn't go as long into the winter as NFL. However if we get a couple of CFL & MLS games in a row during downpours, we're basically screwed for the rest of the year. I guess the plastic fibres will mostly hold it together, but it ain't gonna be pretty, and it's not going to be a great playing surface for footy. Plus replacing this hybrid turf after that won't be cheap.

  5. #1235
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    ^ Agreed. I'm always surprised at the people who see this hybrid pitch as some kind of miracle worker.

    The evidence suggests it might be slightly more durable but it can't hold up to rapid wear down of the worst possible conditions. And once that happens you're roundly screwed because you can't resod it.

  6. #1236
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    So far it looks like the pitch has recovered very well after the sandy CAI match. With the stitching supposed to happen after the Chicago game, it seems we'll have a good base to work from for the rest of the year.

    But in the end this is all an experiment.

  7. #1237
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    Quote Originally Posted by magmadragon View Post
    So far it looks like the pitch has recovered very well after the sandy CAI match. With the stitching supposed to happen after the Chicago game, it seems we'll have a good base to work from for the rest of the year.

    But in the end this is all an experiment.
    Most likely good weather for the Chicago game as well, so hopefully the pitch will still be in good shape when they start with the stitching.

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    The hybrid is here! Well, the truck to do it is here ...

    https://twitter.com/TFC_GroundsDept/...60217028165632

  9. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by nfitz View Post
    The hybrid is here! Well, the truck to do it is here ...

    https://twitter.com/TFC_GroundsDept/...60217028165632
    Well here they are hard at work, putting the hybrid in.


    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

  10. #1240
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  11. #1241
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    Welcome, hybrid.

  12. #1242
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    Quote Originally Posted by nfitz View Post
    The hybrid is here! Well, the truck to do it is here ...

    https://twitter.com/TFC_GroundsDept/...60217028165632
    Unfortunately his account went private a while back so no idea what it says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Looks like it was deleted. What did it say?

  13. #1243
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    Minnesota United's new Allianz Field - "The Kentucky bluegrass surface looks stunning, and with 27.5 miles of heating pipe under the pitch, it will be that way year-round."

    is this really so and if they can keep the grass green all year round in Minnesota why can't we do the same thing here? is this some type of newer technology??

  14. #1244
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    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Minnesota United's new Allianz Field - "The Kentucky bluegrass surface looks stunning, and with 27.5 miles of heating pipe under the pitch, it will be that way year-round."

    is this really so and if they can keep the grass green all year round in Minnesota why can't we do the same thing here? is this some type of newer technology??
    Remember the orange ball ATL-MNU match? TFC has a sub-pitch heating system too. Itís just that beautiful grass isnít easy to grow in shitty climates.

  15. #1245
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    Just a short video showing the machine putting in the fibres.

  16. #1246
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Remember the orange ball ATL-MNU match? TFC has a sub-pitch heating system too. It’s just that beautiful grass isn’t easy to grow in shitty climates.
    I think generally Minnesota has a colder annual climate than here in T.O. It will be interesting to see just how deep into the fall/winter the Allianz Field pitch can be effectively used.

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  18. #1248
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    Quote Originally Posted by sn0re View Post
    Let's hope this works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    Minnesota United's new Allianz Field - "The Kentucky bluegrass surface looks stunning, and with 27.5 miles of heating pipe under the pitch, it will be that way year-round."

    is this really so and if they can keep the grass green all year round in Minnesota why can't we do the same thing here? is this some type of newer technology??
    We've had underground heating and drainage piping under the pitch ever since it went natural. It was all ripped out and replaced with an upgraded system as part of the SisGrass installation during the off-season. This is the icing on the cake but the 5% hybrid is not going to make the grass grow any faster and it won't keep the pitch from being battered by a match in a typhoon or an Argos mud bowl. It will help keep the field together as the natural grass roots will grow around the artificial fibres and keep the pitch more solid but don't expect miracles.

  20. #1250
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    Just a note on Allianz -

    St. Paul got 8 inches of snow yesterday.

    Their pitch is green & snow free today.

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    Nice video of sisgrass at BMO

    https://youtu.be/RiuCXoq2Xjo

  22. #1252
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    Quote Originally Posted by sn0re View Post
    Nice video of sisgrass at BMO

    https://youtu.be/RiuCXoq2Xjo
    Thanks. Interesting vid. Guy says when they plant their foot it wonít shift and stand firm. Isnít that the main complaint and the reason why there are so many injuries on full artificial turf? When your foot gets stuck in but your body keeps moving it puts strain on the knee and ligaments. We could see more injuries maybe. Hopefully not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post
    Thanks. Interesting vid. Guy says when they plant their foot it won’t shift and stand firm. Isn’t that the main complaint and the reason why there are so many injuries on full artificial turf? When your foot gets stuck in but your body keeps moving it puts strain on the knee and ligaments. We could see more injuries maybe. Hopefully not.
    It's probably somewhere between real grass and turf in that sense.

  24. #1254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post
    Thanks. Interesting vid. Guy says when they plant their foot it won’t shift and stand firm. Isn’t that the main complaint and the reason why there are so many injuries on full artificial turf? When your foot gets stuck in but your body keeps moving it puts strain on the knee and ligaments. We could see more injuries maybe. Hopefully not.
    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    It's probably somewhere between real grass and turf in that sense.
    This has always been one of the issues that has worried me. I wonder if there have been any detailed studies of injury risk on the different surfaces, preferably not by a company selling one of the products. (The one big study I've seen, comparing 100% plastic to 100% grass, was crap, because it threw fields of all different qualities levels in together.)

    On 100% grass, sometimes that chunk that comes up, is what relieves the strain and saves a knee. (Thinking of Koevermans in New England for example.) In this video he mentions, once you plant your foot, it's not going to move. On the other hand, a rough, divotted surface can lead to twisted ankles, knee problems etc.

    BMO grass guy says with the hybrid in place, he's also going to gradually change the grass type being grown, to one that's a bit more greasy or slippery. That again might help to relieve some pressure on the joints. Plus it's still mostly grass; it will tear and move a bit, hopefully that's enough.

    I always thought that the hybrid is stitched together below the surface, with needles somehow pulling the artificials fibres horizontally. But from the videos and articles out now, I've learned the fibres are only injected 18cm vertically. I guess they know what they're doing, and aren't going to puncture the subsurface aeration, heating or irrigation tubes! :‑O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I always thought that the hybrid is stitched together below the surface, with needles somehow pulling the artificials fibres horizontally. But from the videos and articles out now, I've learned the fibres are only injected 18cm vertically. I guess they know what they're doing, and aren't going to puncture the subsurface aeration, heating or irrigation tubes! :‑O
    Heggie says in the video that they replaced all that stuff in the off-season to prepare for this, presumably by burying it deeper.

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    Great test of this field coming if we play tomorrow night. 30mm or so of rain between tonight and game time. With Jozy running around on it, if it survives that then we're golden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section_105 View Post
    Great test of this field coming if we play tomorrow night. 30mm or so of rain between tonight and game time. With Jozy running around on it, if it survives that then we're golden.
    This should now, in theory, be one of, if not the, best fields in the league. Can't wait to see it tonight.

  28. #1258
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    The accounts of the media & Vanney after the game was it was a great pitch, even in that rain. Looking forward to seeing it myself in a week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Just a note on Allianz -

    St. Paul got 8 inches of snow yesterday.

    Their pitch is green & snow free today.
    They shoveled it off.

  30. #1260
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    Whoa boy... coincidence?


 

 

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