Let's hope this works.Originally Posted by sn0re
Let's hope this works.
Just a note on Allianz -
St. Paul got 8 inches of snow yesterday.
Their pitch is green & snow free today.
Nice video of sisgrass at BMO
https://youtu.be/RiuCXoq2Xjo
Thanks. Interesting vid. Guy says when they plant their foot it won’t shift and stand firm. Isn’t that the main complaint and the reason why there are so many injuries on full artificial turf? When your foot gets stuck in but your body keeps moving it puts strain on the knee and ligaments. We could see more injuries maybe. Hopefully not.
It's probably somewhere between real grass and turf in that sense.
This has always been one of the issues that has worried me. I wonder if there have been any detailed studies of injury risk on the different surfaces, preferably not by a company selling one of the products. (The one big study I've seen, comparing 100% plastic to 100% grass, was crap, because it threw fields of all different qualities levels in together.)
On 100% grass, sometimes that chunk that comes up, is what relieves the strain and saves a knee. (Thinking of Koevermans in New England for example.) In this video he mentions, once you plant your foot, it's not going to move. On the other hand, a rough, divotted surface can lead to twisted ankles, knee problems etc.
BMO grass guy says with the hybrid in place, he's also going to gradually change the grass type being grown, to one that's a bit more greasy or slippery. That again might help to relieve some pressure on the joints. Plus it's still mostly grass; it will tear and move a bit, hopefully that's enough.
I always thought that the hybrid is stitched together below the surface, with needles somehow pulling the artificials fibres horizontally. But from the videos and articles out now, I've learned the fibres are only injected 18cm vertically. I guess they know what they're doing, and aren't going to puncture the subsurface aeration, heating or irrigation tubes! :‑O
Heggie says in the video that they replaced all that stuff in the off-season to prepare for this, presumably by burying it deeper.
Great test of this field coming if we play tomorrow night. 30mm or so of rain between tonight and game time. With Jozy running around on it, if it survives that then we're golden.
This should now, in theory, be one of, if not the, best fields in the league. Can't wait to see it tonight.
It held up phenomenally well. just wow. I didn't see any divots or turf bunnies even though the field was drenched. wonder what the players thing of it...
The accounts of the media & Vanney after the game was it was a great pitch, even in that rain. Looking forward to seeing it myself in a week.
They shoveled it off.
Whoa boy... coincidence?
Pitch looked and played amazing. The players loved it. I'm impressed so far.
I was watching at the half and the guys that come on the field with their pitchforks had nothing to do...there were no divots! That in itself was amazing considering it had been raining for two days. Looking good ... well done.
To avoid abuse I think ..you can still follow though and I'd think it'd be accepted.
I didn't get close to the field this time, but it really looked great! It will get more lush, & the roots will connect better with the artificial fibres below ground, as the grass has more time to grow. Especially as weather & sunlight improve.
I saw Jozy (& a few other players) testing the pitch before the game started, planting & twisting their feet etc.
The pitch was very stable - might have even contributed to Jozy's hammy tweak, because the footing was probably more stable (transferring stress back into the body) than expected.
Players will get used to it and then watch them fly.
Ok, can we discuss whether this field has some characteristics of how a fake turf plays now that we've seen it a few games?
I am worried that the additional stability is actually contributing to injuries (players are pushing as if the turf will give, and when it doesn't, the stress transfers right back up the body of the player)... I wonder if that actually factored a bit for Jozy and now for Laurent.
I also think the ball runs a bit faster than pure grass, and is a bit bouncier.
I dunno, those are just my casual observations.
I agree. I've always been thinking of those advantages and disadvantages. Sometimes that divot a player tears out of the surface when he plants his foot (w/o plastic reinforcement), is the difference between no injury on the one hand; and a sprained joint, or torn ligament/tendon on the other.
But then again, divots, bumpy surfaces, and the sand they use to hold the grass down w/o reinforcement, can affect the quality of play, and can also contribute to tiredness and injuries.
I wonder if it would be better to keep the grass a tiny bit longer above the plastic inserts than they've done when it was 100% grass. That might slow play a bit, but should make for a more forgiving surface.
I doubt there are any decent studies of this. The studies I have seen, tend to be pushed by the corresponding industry.
(BTW wasn't Ciman's injury caused by the Philly player kicking him in the ankle? Another dangerous foul not called. However even in that case, a softer surface might reduce injury if you get kicked when your foot is planted.)
Clubs around the world must be collecting stats on the turf. Many of the big stadiums in England (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GrassMaster) are using this stuff. They have so much potential revenue that's dependent on team success and any additional chance of injuries would not likely be risked.
This is what they used at BMO Field, according to my Google searches https://www.sispitches.com/products/hybrid-pitch-sisgrass/
Barcelona uses it at their training facility, so I have to think they are confident that it doesn't exacerbate the risk of injury.
https://www.sispitches.com/case-stud...t-FC-Barcelona
Last edited by Jack; 05-13-2019 at 03:47 PM.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
As an armchair analyst, all I can wonder is if it is about the players simply getting used to the additional stability... And not overdoing it accidentally.
I also don't think the training facilities would see the sort of effort and fatigue combination that you see in the 80th minute of a competitive match.
They use hybrid (Desso) at Camp Nou as well, which is essentially the same idea as the SIS one.
They also use hybrid pitches in a ton of other big arenas/stadia around the world and it doesn’t contribute to player injuries.
Ok, that's fair. It was just an honest question, given that what injuries we've seen immediately upon the insertion of the fibres looked like they were stress related and the condition of the pitch was radically more stable than it was only two weeks prior to the insertion.
I'll accept that I'm probably imagining things.
And for sure this is better than the sand.
I don't discount it 100%. There could be an adjustment period to a new surface, but wouldn't that also mean players would be more likely to be injured when playing on the road than at home (ie. on less familiar surfaces)? Either way, Jozy has known issues and Ciman got kicked, so I'm inclined to think it's not the pitch, but I'm not going to discount your theory 100% either. I guess we'll see how it plays out over the season, but so far, it's held up well and looks great.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
Yes, but maybe not as likely to be forgotten about.
If you're playing on a pure artificial turf, you never forget it. Also, they make adjustments to cleat selection to accommodate.
I think that there is likely a different mind set on away pitches as you always remember that you don't know the field intimately.
My theory is underpinned by the idea that they might not be constantly aware of the new nature/stability of the grass, and that they default to thinking it will behave as in games/seasons past.
Again, I'm just imagining it as a minor contributing factor here.
Anyway, thanks to all for indulging me.
From my bad angle in the stands it did look like Ciman got caught and twisted something. But upon watching the highlights, yeah he was clipped by the Philly player.
Twitter account still locked so this is a screenshot. Pitch seems to be holding up very well so far.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7GT9zjW0AAPMbK.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7GT83TX4AAj5P8.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7GT6i1UcAAJNZk.jpg
Field looks fantastic.
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