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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    1) Yes. People are waiting for a torrential rain storm. They're desperate to complain. Their expectation is eternal perfection.
    Who? Everyone?
    No.

    Some People?
    yes.

    Is that your point. Some people are desperate to complain?

    Top notch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red4ever View Post
    Who? Everyone?
    No.

    Some People?
    yes.

    Is that your point. Some people are desperate to complain?

    Top notch.
    In case you missed it, my point is that, yes, there's a sizeable (I'll let you estimate) faction of supporters who want the ground share to fail.

    And when it inevitably does next year or five years from now or 10 years from now, the I-told-you-so group will emerge.

    My take: Grass is a science. It's imperfect. Knowing that, I foresee a day when TFC's pitch is not "top notch" for a weekend or two. I'm OK with that.

    I commend TFC ownership for investing in the surface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Globetrotter View Post
    Is this thread open just for those who really want to spite Leiweke and hold a grudge that a stadium is shared? Are there still some just waiting for the day that a blade of grass is bent the wrong way or you still see a small hiccup of a paint mark that shouldn't be on the field so we can "prove them wrong"??

    Imagine an outsider that doesn't care so much about soccer or football. They see this thread and say "these people are arguing about grass"?

    The stadium is shared. The grass survived as we were reassured it would. Let's move on with our lives. We still have several games left to win.
    Yes. Nail. Head.

    I do think that the vigilance or at least the focus should be on the scheduling going forward. This year is clearly a good one which has enabled the pitch to stay in great shape. Both teams would like to have standard game dates and times. No one likes a mid-week game. One team has gate superiority, the other has networks and ratings. The angling over dates is probably already underway and while Leiweke stated it was always soccer first... he's no longer there.

    As long as the schedule allows for the time to heal the pitch and make repairs, we should continue to be fine. But if they choose to test the limits to seek to maximize game day revenue, that could become an issue for the survival of the pitch.

    That to me is one of the only reasons that a thread/discussion like this would continue. The ground share is clearly working and it's a really nice stadium now that wouldn't have happened without the focus on big events and expanding rental dates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Yes. Nail. Head.

    I do think that the vigilance or at least the focus should be on the scheduling going forward. This year is clearly a good one which has enabled the pitch to stay in great shape. Both teams would like to have standard game dates and times. No one likes a mid-week game. One team has gate superiority, the other has networks and ratings. The angling over dates is probably already underway and while Leiweke stated it was always soccer first... he's no longer there.

    As long as the schedule allows for the time to heal the pitch and make repairs, we should continue to be fine. But if they choose to test the limits to seek to maximize game day revenue, that could become an issue for the survival of the pitch.

    That to me is one of the only reasons that a thread/discussion like this would continue. The ground share is clearly working and it's a really nice stadium now that wouldn't have happened without the focus on big events and expanding rental dates.
    Head groundsmen told me last month that they expect even better scheduling next year.

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    I wonder how MLSE would react if city council voted to cancel the management contract with MLSE and overseas the stadium and pitch themselves? Would people feel better about the grass then I wonder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    Head groundsmen told me last month that they expect even better scheduling next year.
    Absolutely they will with the Reds having a normal schedule with home games beginning in March. 7-8 home game games could be played before the CFL season kicks off. It will benefit the management of the grass greatly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    In case you missed it, my point is that, yes, there's a sizeable (I'll let you estimate) faction of supporters who want the ground share to fail.

    And when it inevitably does next year or five years from now or 10 years from now, the I-told-you-so group will emerge.

    My take: Grass is a science. It's imperfect. Knowing that, I foresee a day when TFC's pitch is not "top notch" for a weekend or two. I'm OK with that.

    I commend TFC ownership for investing in the surface.
    I didn't miss it so much as I summarized it...
    and I don't think it's a point so much as it's a fact...
    But yeah, keep posting.

    This is why this thread sucks. It's either people who are way too angry about the ground share, or people who come here to wind them up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    Head groundsmen told me last month that they expect even better scheduling next year.
    great thanks for sharing

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    I've reported on this many times. There's a good reason hybrid wasn't chosen. You CAN'T easily replace it. You have to use seed and grow. The ability to replace whole sections quickly is why they decided NOT to use a hybrid.

    In my earlier reports, I was also told that if the natural surface WASN'T a success this year, they were open to moving to a hybrid next year.

    The "cost" argument doesn't really make sense when you consider MLSE spared no expense with grow lights etc. With what has transpired through the previous three years, I'm not sure how you can hypothesize that MLSE is cutting corners.
    I remember your reports, it's just that hybrid has been used with great success in the UK. I understand that they went with the quicker option... maybe it's OK given that they have huge amounts of sod in reserve. It's worked in this mostly dry season, whether it works longer term is unproven.
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    I've only been paying attention to this thread because we invested observers can pick out things that may or may not have been caught by the groundskeepers, to provide them with an honest and constructive assessment of the pitch.

    It's not just about the repair after the fact, it's also about the operational choices that lead to the damage in the first place (or that are adopted to mitigate that damage).

    An example: there was discussion after the first Argos game that the sideline population was avoiding the tarps, thus putting strain on the west side grass. That seems to not be an issue now.

    The example I observed was the golf cart tracks that were obvious at the northeast corner. It seemed to me that this was likely due to excessive traffic to and from the Argos dressing room. The issue has gone away, and maybe it was due to an operational change. (And maybe it wasn't anything that could be changed, and took care of itself. I'm open to the possibility I was overly sensitive.)

    At the very least our observations help the groundscrew to refine their craft by having constructive feedback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I remember your reports, it's just that hybrid has been used with great success in the UK. I understand that they went with the quicker option... maybe it's OK given that they have huge amounts of sod in reserve. It's worked in this mostly dry season, whether it works longer term is unproven.
    Maybe we should all consult our respective city councillors and have the city put in the hybrid since they actually own the stadium. John Tory is a very sports friendly guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    In case you missed it, my point is that, yes, there's a sizeable (I'll let you estimate) faction of supporters who want the ground share to fail.

    And when it inevitably does next year or five years from now or 10 years from now, the I-told-you-so group will emerge.

    My take: Grass is a science. It's imperfect. Knowing that, I foresee a day when TFC's pitch is not "top notch" for a weekend or two. I'm OK with that.

    I commend TFC ownership for investing in the surface.
    AS do I. The initial investment in a surface that was top of the league. For our game. Other games have other needs.

    I don't get how this is even a soapbox for people. To prevent discussion on the state of the pitch. If you and others are ok with it and don't see a problem, thanks for stopping by and leave your bullshit generalizing somewhere else.
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 10-19-2016 at 09:57 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    In case you missed it, my point is that, yes, there's a sizeable (I'll let you estimate) faction of supporters who want the ground share to fail.

    And when it inevitably does next year or five years from now or 10 years from now, the I-told-you-so group will emerge.

    My take: Grass is a science. It's imperfect. Knowing that, I foresee a day when TFC's pitch is not "top notch" for a weekend or two. I'm OK with that.

    I commend TFC ownership for investing in the surface.
    Keep up the good work Kurt. Your coverage and commentary is much needed as some people here take the pitch issue here way too seriously. I think you will know by now some of these suporters types only come out of their mom's basement for games, spending the rest of the time hiding behind a keyboard. I met a few of them once getting dropped off in their mom's mini van at BMO.

    In general I do not have any issues with the pitch, but maybe one day it will be who knows. For example Heinz Field in Pittsburgh after getting torn up due to the Steelers and Pitt coupled in with high school games, they changed to turf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    There is a legitimate concern whether the best solution has been chosen. I still go for hybrid, I think it's cost (you have to replace whole sections instead of divots) that made the choice easy for MLSE.
    The system they initially upgraded to was ideal for natural grass. That system was expensive. The sod they are growing (have grown) for replacements are in comparison cheap.

    Thank the weather that we didn't have to use sod "b". There was no guarantee or even likelyhood that that surface would've taken root in time. Again, thank the weather.

    Hybrid, while the cost is more, the system we have in place to keep it healthy is not a necessity and an excess to what it needs. Yes, it would've cost more to put in but there was no guarantees EITHER system would work perfectly. Which is pretty much what they needed this first year and they've got thus far.

    So I would doubt they invest further in hybrid next year until the sod replacement scheme fails one season and people AREN'T ok with it.

    I'm glad they had a plan "b" but I'm far more glad they didn't have to use it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    The system they initially upgraded to was ideal for natural grass. That system was expensive. The sod they are growing (have grown) for replacements are in comparison cheap.

    Thank the weather that we didn't have to use sod "b". There was no guarantee or even likelyhood that that surface would've taken root in time. Again, thank the weather.

    Hybrid, while the cost is more, the system we have in place to keep it healthy is not a necessity and an excess to what it needs. Yes, it would've cost more to put in but there was no guarantees EITHER system would work perfectly. Which is pretty much what they needed this first year and they've got thus far.

    So I would doubt they invest further in hybrid next year until the sod replacement scheme fails one season and people AREN'T ok with it.

    I'm glad they had a plan "b" but I'm far more glad they didn't have to use it.
    Would the idea of a hybrid field not be an issue to take up with city council as they are the ones who ultimately would have to sign off on it, being a city owned facility?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR-T View Post
    Keep up the good work Kurt. Your coverage and commentary is much needed as some people here take the pitch issue here way too seriously. I think you will know by now some of these suporters types only come out of their mom's basement for games, spending the rest of the time hiding behind a keyboard. I met a few of them once getting dropped off in their mom's mini van at BMO.
    Welcome to the board from one supporter type behind a keyboard.

    Glad you aren't too serious. Enjoy the pitch, enjoy the game, enjoy the convo.

    I agree on most of Kurts commentary as well. He provides a great insight on many things surrounding TFC for us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR-T View Post
    Would the idea of a hybrid field not be an issue to take up with city council as they are the ones who ultimately would have to sign off on it, being a city owned facility?
    I'm sure it would be as much an issue as the last upgrade they made to the stadium and the surface. Your point?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    I'm sure it would be as much an issue as the last upgrade they made to the stadium and the surface. Your point?
    My point is, if you really have an issue with something city related as BMO Field is, get a good conversation going with your city councillor and if enough bring it up, changes could happen. I would be happy to see the city to vote taking away the management of the facility by MLSE. It would not be the first time as the city of Oshawa did it with the arena the Generals play at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR-T View Post
    My point is, if you really have an issue with something city related as BMO Field is, get a good conversation going with your city councillor and if enough bring it up, changes could happen. I would be happy to see the city to vote taking away the management of the facility by MLSE. It would not be the first time as the city of Oshawa did it with the arena the Generals play at.
    Ah. I see. You're offering me a personal way to get involved in the issue.

    Thank you for the productive advice intended. Truly. But I had conversations much closer to the people responsible for the change at a time when change was more likely.

    Again, I applaud anyone who would offer action over just talk. Kudos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul-collins View Post
    I've only been paying attention to this thread because we invested observers can pick out things that may or may not have been caught by the groundskeepers, to provide them with an honest and constructive assessment of the pitch.

    It's not just about the repair after the fact, it's also about the operational choices that lead to the damage in the first place (or that are adopted to mitigate that damage).

    An example: there was discussion after the first Argos game that the sideline population was avoiding the tarps, thus putting strain on the west side grass. That seems to not be an issue now.

    The example I observed was the golf cart tracks that were obvious at the northeast corner. It seemed to me that this was likely due to excessive traffic to and from the Argos dressing room. The issue has gone away, and maybe it was due to an operational change. (And maybe it wasn't anything that could be changed, and took care of itself. I'm open to the possibility I was overly sensitive.)

    At the very least our observations help the groundscrew to refine their craft by having constructive feedback.
    Well, as we can see in this informative image used previously, you can see some of the sideline traffic clearly not using the protective tarp to stand on.



    In fact, many of them are on the field and seem to spend a great deal of time each game out beyond the actual sideline. I'm not sure why or even why it's permitted. Can they not see the game from a few steps back? Do the players out on the field need extra encouragement or coaching? Are they standing by to help off concussed teammates? Are they concussed themselves and have lost their bearings?

    Now, it's probably safe to assume that the grass is taking less of a pounding this year because the dismal performance of the Argos diminishes the urge for both home and visiting team to cavort boisterously in that area.

    The Sadsack Scullers are living up to Homer Simpson's epic definition of 'the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked'. Therefore, their players are naturally subdued and lethargic. The visiting team, knowing they have an easy game they fully expect to win, are also less active and boisterous as the score mounts in their favour. The absence of drama helps tone down the intensity of sideline activity and that is certainly helping spare the grass on the sidelines from harder wear and tear.

    As an added bonus for the stadium, many of the seats should probably last longer than expected with less wear and tear on them, too.

    It's too good to be true how well this stadium share is working out. This year.

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    Sure, I didn't say that the staff and players were staying on the tarp; I said it doesn't seem to be an issue now. Perhaps once (if?) the Argos start doing something that makes someone on the sidelines get excited, it will become an issue.

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    I can't for the life of me understand why people love to complain about certain threads being open & active -- as long as people aren't attacking each other unduly or otherwise getting out of hand. Not interested in a thread / think it's silly? Pro tip: don't open the thread.

    I've never lived in my mom's basement, I moved away from home 30 years ago, but I'm interested & vigilant about these issues. I have some points (good & bad) to say about how the pitch & groundshare are working -- but no time right now as I'm on a short lunch break at work. Maybe tonight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I can't for the life of me understand why people love to complain about certain threads being open & active -- as long as people aren't attacking each other unduly or otherwise getting out of hand. Not interested in a thread / think it's silly? Pro tip: don't open the thread.

    I've never lived in my mom's basement, I moved away from home 30 years ago, but I'm interested & vigilant about these issues. I have some points (good & bad) to say about how the pitch & groundshare are working -- but no time right now as I'm on a short lunch break at work. Maybe tonight.
    Sorry bud, I tried.

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Auzzy again.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I can't for the life of me understand why people love to complain about certain threads being open & active -- as long as people aren't attacking each other unduly or otherwise getting out of hand. Not interested in a thread / think it's silly? Pro tip: don't open the thread.
    In general we prefer to let threads run their course unless there is personal attacks or trolling.
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    March / April is a greater concern, than football 10 times a year. the grass is strong by the time football starts.

    Remember the bog in the defoe year.
    Last edited by Onyx; 10-19-2016 at 12:16 PM.

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    To my surprise the pitch has been perfect this season. No divots or any sign of lines. However, my season seats were in the front row of the defunct North Stand. The price was right and the view was excellent so I'll never forgive the club for forcing me to sit where I did this season. I have not renewed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
    March / April is a greater concern, than football 10 times a year. the grass is strong by the time football starts.

    Remember the bog in the defoe year.
    Oh this will be something different. To see how much slower it recovers from those bog months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
    March / April is a greater concern, than football 10 times a year. the grass is strong by the time football starts.

    Remember the bog in the defoe year.
    Winter months are being addressed. I'll have a story on that soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Oh this will be something different. To see how much slower it recovers from those bog months.
    Why do you think it will be slower to recover?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    I've reported on this many times. There's a good reason hybrid wasn't chosen. You CAN'T easily replace it. You have to use seed and grow. The ability to replace whole sections quickly is why they decided NOT to use a hybrid.

    ....
    There are rumours that both Home Depot United and eventually the Loons will be using hybrid. The Home Depot supporters seem to be crowing about it because "WEMBLEY!".

 

 

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