Childish? We will do our best to control those we know, those we don't we have no influence on. Pretty simple.Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN
As your colleague Laura Armstrong was able to assess, this protest is not about the sanctions levied against Inebriatti its due to the context in section 2 of the agreement they are trying to force them to sign.
I'll let you in on a little secret ...
TFC doesn't need anyone to sign a contract. They can police the section however they wish without your signature.
and SG's can sit and just watch the game like many around the stadium... you turned this into a farce not us.
Of course they can! Just wanted the truth out there. Now it is.
IMO the farce is that people think they are bigger then the club...
Which, in essence, was one of the points of my piece ... along with exposing a few other details.
Just a question: why does the front office get a free pass in your article? Shouldn't the "enjoy the football" part pertain to them too? They escalated the situation, which has resulted in the protests. Now the atmosphere at BMO is absolute crap. The players are effected. Maybe an FO who actually gave a shit about, you know, winning, might turn the temperature down a bit and deal with this in the close season and concentrate on winning now. The thing I find petty is a billion dollar corporation "taking on" a ragtag group of people who are, at most, overzealously supporting THEIR product.
That's been true since day one. So that begs the question, why the unnecessary exercise from the FO? When issues like this have come up in the past, they have always been handled by SG leaderships and the FO. Is this a "show of force" for the league office?
I stated this earlier in this thread we are in unprecedented territory in the clubs history. We are top of the table and have a good opportunity to go deep in the playoffs and this is what we are talking about the day before a game. It makes me sad and angry, but not surprised as I have been here since day 1 and seen the entitlement of some people...
Based on my conversations and understanding of the situation from all sides (although Inebriatti refuses to talk to me), I haven't found anything wrong with the way the front office has handled the situation. While I think the "agreement" is silly, I'm not sure it's a talking point simply because TFC doesn't need said "agreement" to police it's stadium how it sees fit. The front office is pretty reasonable. I'm not sure the same can be said for a certain supporters group.
The thing is, the "agreement" has turned out to be a bit of a grenade hasn't it? Doesn't look like they handled it well. As you say, they could just hire better security and be done with it.
At any rate, someone needs to be the bigger person in the interests of the team.
ok....so then why come up with this contract at all then?....did FO think for a second that coming up with something like this would actually improve relations with the SGs? Or is this a clever way of washing their hands of any future trouble in the stadium?
Why didn't Armstrong get the same info regarding the "BMO Security Camera" as Larsun? They both quote the club, yet the usual defender of the TFC FO is the only one making mention?
That's odd now isn't it?
Considering how much could be put to rest if they simply shared such knowledge, just a still from the footage, is also odd no? Why would Manning comment to the Star if he knew they were guilty as a group?
MLSE is an organization that spares no expense to make their teams happy. The hundreds of millions spent in the past couple years make that obvious to anyone. Yet TFC is verbally unhappy about this situation, and this tiny bit of information was only shared with Kurt?
Is my logic off here?
its a nice escape clause for when the next PR hit happens. Imagine this was in place during last year when the drunk idiot did something stupid outside the southend, some group would have gotten blame.
ya I agree....
This is it right here. It's all about deflecting blame and a means for the FO and BMO operations staff to avoid responsibility for not doing their jobs. Newf said something on Twitter regarding this; explain how a guy smuggled a banner with two 8 foot poles through the security gates where they are tasked specifically with checking banners?
Couple of other things: I really don't care who touched the two stick. I'm not sure why Kurt, and the FO, seem to think video footage is some kind of smoking gun. Stuff like that can get passed around. Someone might have thought is was funny in the moment. I really don't care.
The idea that the groups have to police themselves is really unfair. I mean, stock traders in the US were asked to police themselves. Look what happened in 2008. The FO's role is to police the stands. You need a third party doing that. It's just not realistic to the dynamic of a group to ask people to go around reporting on each other.
So do you mean similar sayyyyyy to.....how FO wants all the sights and sounds that supporters create to provide them with promo material (PYRO INCLUDED) and the boast of being able to call their fans "the best in MLS".
But when their own security is asleep at the wheel and they take heat for it, they come up with a shitty contract to wash their hands in the future. I struggle to comprehend that logic.
Exactly how hard is it to buy an Inebriatti shirt? I have seen dozens of folks who bought U-Sector scarves through the ages that I never saw anywhere other than at matches. It wasn't like an exclusive, you need to show your membership to buy one thing. Besides, isn't one of the reasons of creating and selling swag to raise money for tifos, etc? So the more you sell, the more money you get for tifos and such and what if a guy wearing a shirt or scarf did something in like 209? You going to punish the group? By the logic I am reading then the answer would be yes.
Considering the Sun article was a blatantly FO using Larson as its' mouthpiece it only stands to drive the wedge even deeper between the two sides.
Which begs the question why was this put forward anyway? If it was a plea that the group in question put on their pom-poms saturday and show up in full voice it's a major fail and likely just tossed gas on the fire.
BUT alas this = clicks for Kurt so I guess he's good at his job. Stir the pot for his own good.
Bingo. What is this other than cheaply passing the buck or a nice PR shield?
It would be one thing if we were talking about high levels of organization and a coordinated effort but the incident in question hardly describes that.
If they have issues in the stands they should deal with them, not expect that a very loosely connected group of people will do that themselves. No good can come of that.
In a worst case scenario they'd be legally exposed.
Actually, that pretty much is the wording.
I came through that gate that night right after all the march people in black. Some person (I have no idea if that was the person with the particular two stick) had 3+ two sticks and a non security (red jacket) woman only checked one.
I'm pretty darn sure MLSE security was mega embarrassed and I wouldn't be surprised if somebody was let go or demoted.
For certain people, it's all about them being the center of attention, it's not about the club. That's why that dude several years ago said the FYITP stuff, and that's why the crude 2 stick at the Montreal game. It's all about "I'm so clever, look at me." Nothing to do with support. Supporters are about the team, not narcissists wanting to have the cameras on them.
... active with one group in particular...
I have some sympathy with said group, I'm sure a lot of them had no idea about the 2-stick. The group project was to create the signage that all of the SGs worked on.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Nicely put.
RPB Road Warrior. DC United 9/29/07, Columbus Chaos 3/25/08, DC Rumble 5/24/08, Montreal Madness 5/27/08, Chicago 7/12/08, Kansas City Opener 3/21/09, Columbus Smoke 3/28/09, Boston Bus Bounce 8/1/09, Montreal 1000 4/7/12 Montreal 3200 3/16/2013 Columbus Bus Breakdown 3/21/15, Montreal Playoffs 10/29/15, Montreal Opener 04/23/16, Montreal East Final 11/22/16, Chicago 08/19/17, NY Semi-Final 10/30/17, Columbus East Final 11/21/17, Montreal "Dichio Lives" 3/17/18
Sorry, I don't read the Sun. As for SG's being punished for non-member actions, are you saying the banner holder was, in fact, a member of Inebriatti, despite the group's statement to the contrary?
Thank you, TFC Tifoso. There is very much a shared responsibility for that banner.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
Dozens of very large world football supporters groups would disagree with you on that with the exception of it being "We're so clever, look at us". If you follow what the biggest of supporters groups are doing with their displays then you will see that this is exactly what it is all about.
I am reminded of this every time I watch a game from Seattle and they sing the exact same songs at the exact same time each game, including the "I can't hear a ****ing thing", usually sung to about 15 people way up in the corner of that place.
This whole situation is incredibly frustrating and each party involved is just making it worse.
The fact that inebriati spent thousands of dollars creating an incredible pregame tifo and there hasn't been one peep about it in the media is embarrassing. All other sports teams get blown, and this goes unnoticed in our media because the media doesn't care about Toronto FC plan and simple. The fact that whenever someone mentions TFC, the first thing they go to is a two-stick banner that one random person snuck by security is ridiculous. The only people to blame for that banner is that one guy who brought it in and the security for looking right at it and not doing anything about it.
How you could hold a supporter group accountable for one man's actions and the security not doing anything is stupid. Like someone mentioned, supporter groups are there to support, security is there to secure, they should have done something and they didn't. I'm not involved in any supporter groups so I don't know exactly what is in these "contracts", but the criteria the front office expect the supporter groups to sign is bonkers.
And lastly, the fact that the supporter groups are not singing is making things even worse. Now everyone gets to sit back and watch our FIRST PLACE TEAM crawl their way through the playoffs with no support in a terrible atmosphere. Yup, we've waited 10 years for this and now we have a legitimate shot at the title, the crowd at BMO is worse than a leafs game and no one even talks about our chances. Instead of gaining fan support and media attention, we are losing fan support and the media is only talking about one stupid banner which is killing our clubs reputation.
This whole situation is disgusting and has ruined an incredible season put together by the men on the field. I feel terrible for the coaching staff and players that sweat and bleed for our club.
Larson seems to be more concerned with a good relationship with MLSE, getting more hits on twitter & increasing readership (which admittedly is his job, it’s why he arrived on these boards this year in the first place)
he whines on about SGs putting on big boy pants as they’re affecting the team by not doing what he’s complaining about and in the same breath on his twitter account says, “Chicago is proof that without support, there still is football!”
So why is he wasting all this time complaining about their silence if they don’t really matter in the end
I have never been a member of a supporters group – I’ve been a SSH since day one, love to sit quietly in the middle of the park and watch the game. But I for one fully believe that the atmosphere created by a united south end is paramount to the environment that I want when I go to a game – otherwise I’d cancel my seats and watch from the comfort of my couch at home.
I completely agree with the SGs on this one – there is no way they should be held responsible for policing any section that they don’t sell seats for – how on earth could they?
As far as I can see this issue IS bigger than winning the next few games – although I’d prefer they do win – but this IS about the importance of the SGs to the team, the fans and the city for the longer-term future of the team.
And if Larson wants Chicago, he can have it – I don’t.
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