How can the RPB prevent the incident if it was done by non-RPBs ???Originally Posted by Jeff s
How can the RPB prevent the incident if it was done by non-RPBs ???
Hard to believe all this came from a stupid two stick.
Will i mean, things like if a rpb throws an object on the field, or maybe drinks a little to much and picks a fight. And ya, i can see a rpb bringing in a banner without notifying others. Will the group be in trouble if we didn't stop it in time? Or will mlse not care as long as we report the incident to security and cooperate with them?
Bottom line: we need Seba back in the lineup, eh-SAP!!!
TORONTO FC, 2017 MLS CHAMPIONS!!! (Still the greatest in league history!)
They can go after the individual as well as the group. It's fluid.
This last banner that started all of this was a non member that came forward but the FO stuck the ban on the group not the individual.
So MLS rules ya.
Well, i mean, Kurt just posted this in his article.
"But a well-placed source in the position to know told the Toronto Sun this week that BMO Field’s enhanced security cameras caught two fans holding the banner at separate moments — one of which was donning an Inebriatti shirt."
If true, then I kinda have a hard time siding with them. On top of that, I see these excuses on a regular basis. Its not often these things happen, but when somebody does something stupid in our section, the main response is "well he's not with us" despite seeing these people at every freaking game. How do you go about proving who's a member. So convenient that the non members always find a way to do this huh?
I agree security should be blamed as well. But as soon as the second guy grabbed hold of that banner, its hard to take their word and hard to say they weren't involved. Once he the member grabbed it, they became involved. Thats it. Owe up the mistake and take the punishment.
The same should be said in our section. People threw beer during the montreal game ( regular people I see often ), but no one stopped them, no one bothered having a talk to them. I eventually had to talk to one of them, and pointed them out. But what did I get? some guy calling me, and some people from 111 "a rat".
it was a fantastic night to be a TFC supporter, even with the result. They left in first, looked good for 30 mins, didn't collapse, and we got to yell at the Ref. And the weather was perfect.
We shouldn't be supporting the other group on this. Sorry, but what happened was fundamentally wrong. It is all too easy to say " prove he was one of us". We ( RPB ) are condoning that banner, indirectly, and we shouldn't be.
the Syrians were at the stadium cheering their brains out for TFC while the Supporters Groups sat on their hands like babies. His comparison is fair and appropriate.
He wasn't a "big boy" when he became a Galicticos..his best days were at Milan - IMO he lost world class status fairly quickly with RM.
Absolutely. The Syrians made the supposed SGs look like petulant children on this occasion and the SGs only contributed to that perception felt by many around the ground. "Toronto 'till I die!" we hear them cry, but that seemingly doesn't translate onto actions. "Toronto 'till we take offence at the FO actions" seems much more appropriate.
Take a full read of Larson's take on the issue:
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/29...am-with-antics
Couldn't nearly have said it anywhere nearly as well myself.
You are important to the team. Support them or accept your part in the failure of this most promising of seasons should it come to that.
There is more to it than just that banner. And the FO and security are just as responsible for that banner getting in as a supporters group. They are supposed to check and approve all large banners at the gate. We are not condoning the banner, we are opposing unfair measures and policies from the FO.
Babies? I take a dim view of you insulting supporters on our message board. And if you are a member of RPB, you are also part of this. Do you know the history of our relations with the team? How about you ask some questions of group leadership and get informed before throwing out insults?
The rules they are trying to get us to accept are wrong. The guy who held up the banner is ultimately responsible, but how did he get it in? Where is the FO mea culpa on that one? Why is this one being put fully on supporters?
Larson has had an ex to grind with Inebriatti for years. I take what he writes about them with a grain of salt.
The Syrians have nothing to do with the relationship between the supporters and the office. The front office is responsible for what's happening right now. Their security failed and now they're trying to pin their failing on supporters, all of whom have condemned the banner. Yes, the banner was wrong and the guy who held it up, repeatedly, on many occasions during the match was wrong. Why was he not caught by security and game ops staff?
Anyway, we need to focus on supporting the team together, not tearing down or insulting other supporters. I don't always agree with Inebriatti's actions, in fact, I was quite pissed about the sanctions our support received for Montreal away, allegedly due to actions by some of them. But in this case, the FO/security messdd up by not snagging the guys and the banner and now they're trying to cover their embarrassment with sanctions and draconian rules. I don't think that's right.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
And as for policing our section, don't they pay people for that? Don't I pay for a ticket to be in the stadium? Now I have to work while I'm supporting the team?
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
This is interesting, in a sad way.
When the team was succeeding off the pitch in years 2 & 3, the FO had a massive crackdown on people trying to support the team. They envisoned a Leafs style stadium where it was filled with high value tickets. When support started waning, they backed down.
Now that the team is winning and drawing, I certainly hope they aren't going back to that idea.
Out of curiosity - I thought the RPB policy was support during the match and leave protests for other times (if at all). Has that changed?
Punish the individual not the group unless explicitly condoned by the supporter group.
Its securities job to police the crowd.
What back asswards planet do MLSE live on.
Having said that I think considering where this team is at it would have probably been a good idea to delay the protest for some other game.
simply and fairly put . I stand by this . We let the team down AND they know it .
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
well said .
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
Least you can do is contact security if you do see something. No one is telling you to confront them. These instances are so few and far between to begin with, the least you can do is report it when it does happen.
The security that did allow the banner need to be punished for doing a very poor job. Without a doubt they didn't check the banner, and apparently did nothing but watch them display it. Ridiculous. But inebriatti deserves some blame here too. They saw the banner, several times. No one said anything. And if reports are true, it was even passed around. So how are they not guilty as a group? They allowed it to happen.
we had protests before and we'll have them in future too, if necessary of course.
Many people in the past and even now are talking about southend unison, right?
Well , for the first 24 minutes of last game south was in unison probably first time ever, we did it for 24 other 2 groups showed support to innebriatti a bit longer, nothing wrong with that.
For once we actully acted as SG and all you can read here is bitch,moan,complain, not the mention non memebrs calling rpb for action taken in the stands.
FO is at fault as well as ineebs, they want SGs to sign self policing letter ,in sections where sgs dont have control,that what is protest was all about. They don't want to sign that and im sure other sgs will decline it too.
As far players noticed we were silent, give me a break, if our noise makes the differnce how the fu*k tfc did not win mls cup until now,god nows we were very loud in the past 10 years,Seattle should win it every year,afterall they have most fans per game and the loudest fans too?
What we did was right,if we didint we would look like biggest hypocrites ,always talking about unision and then be only sg not participating,we did it for 24 and then we were ba k what we do best, sing and chant.
the SGs make the atmosphere - i mean i love simply watching my team - but the atmosphere by the SGs takes it to another level
this year the SGs have been even tighter - fantastic
i hope this 'situation' brings them even tighter together - and resolved with the FO ultimately as well
but i really believe the south end should be managed by the SGs - ticket sales et al and sundry - following the rules set out by mls/mlse/the stadium, yes - but the SGs responsible for their groups and having the authority to determine who sits there
the atmosphere would become stratospheric imho....
What do you know about what Jack and other supporters are being told to do? Did you ask him? Did you see the documents in question?
I don't have a set opinion about what should happen here. It's a very tricky question. However that Larsun article was a real missed opportunity. Did he not reach out to representatives of any supporters group to try to get their comments & see the full picture? I don't see any mention of that in the article. Normally considered good form in journalism. Just spoke with Vanney, and some unnamed yet apparently totally authoritative source from the team? Does Larson know about the contents of the document that groups are being asked to sign? Wouldn't it have been a good idea to at least mention that in the article, and also to ask Vanney what he thought about the actions of his FO?
Anyway, the article will stir up some controversy, it will garner some hits, mission accomplished. It will get some people tut-tutting about those crazy sawker fans. Maybe this topic will even make it into some of those mainstream sports shows and talk shows that Kurt feels should be taking TFC more seriously. (Of course they won't take TFC seriously when they mention this, but we'll get some eye rolls out of it.)
Kurt writes some very interesting stuff from time to time, but that article reminds me why I don't read the Sun.
Last edited by Auzzy; 09-29-2016 at 08:55 PM.
This article provides a bit more perspective, from all sides: https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2...oronto-fc.html
BTW specifically concerning two-sticks: they're much easier to see from the bottom of the stands, where the security is, than from within the supporters section. When I'm in there, I'm looking at the field or the capo, not turning around to look at two-sticks. And the capos are already pretty busy. I'm really surprised that security or other game-day staff didn't see the offensive sign earlier, apparently it was up for quite some time.
Last edited by Auzzy; 09-29-2016 at 08:54 PM.
From the article: "..Inebriatti, which didn’t immediately respond to the Sun’s request for comment..."
OK sorry, I missed that. I wonder what "immediately" means. Laura Armstrong was able to get responses from a couple of groups.
The capo himself is looking at the crowd most of the time, so are 2 or 3 other guys beside him. That's not a good excuse imo.
Like what Paul Collins said, hard to get inebriatti interview if they constantly talk shit to him. Just go look at kurts Twitter page and see the things that are said to him by the group. They have no interest talking to him
And no, I don't fully know everything that was said by mlse to the groups, ( although didn't someone post a picture of mlse statement? But didn't bother to show the rest of the statement) but this quote "That code includes a clause which says the club can deem a supporters group responsible for an incident if the act occurs in their seating area and no individual or group is identified as responsible" I mean, am I missing something here? Someone does something really stupid, you report him. That's all. If someone throws something on the field, or holds up an offensive banner, you're gonna tell me people won't see this happening? I honestly think it's more of a case of way too many people looking after one another, not willing to report their friends stupidity and always looking at the " he's not with us" excuse.
Last edited by Jeff s; 09-29-2016 at 09:18 PM.
I dunno, there are people paid to stand & look up at the crowd, especially in the south end. I know they can't catch everything, but they should be able to see a pretty large sign pointing down at them. (You can't catch everything at the gates, especially because a banner or two-stick could easily be passed through the fence somewhere else, away from any of the gates.)
I don't have a strong opinion about this, at least in public. I don't want to defend or attack any group. I just think there's a couple of angles to look at in this issue.
I always thought the big elephant in the room that is the south stand, is that one day, be it years from now, come safe standing and general admission, we will all have to stand together, next to one another, with one capo stand, one set of drummers, singing one song. The alternative to this vision is much less attractive.
Some days, this hypothetical unity seems... impossible.
However, there have been moments this season, including yesterday, where the impossible looked... well, less impossible. I shouldn't speak for Inebriatti, but the point of this post is to extend a personal thanks to all of you who support us in words and gesture. Thank you. To those who don't, fair play too.
The Sun article - the man needs to sell his story, and to this end he begins by creating an antagonist. Again, fair play. I don't wish to debate it other than to urge the reader's cynicism of some of the author's implications and statements.
Last edited by chbu12; 09-29-2016 at 09:46 PM.
Amen.
I am with you and the other supporter groups. We're in this together. To a unified south end.
I cooperated with Laura Armstrong as I respect her as a reporter. I would not have responded to larson. He knows he is loathed by most SG leadership
It was a very police union/brotherhood type stance to take...which as a PR move, backfired.
Sorry guys, but standing in unity with another SG that did something so obviously wrong...
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