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  1. #91
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    is it population based?

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    is it population based?
    I think population is a factor, and quality of the local talent pool. I guess the thinking is the smaller the population is, the less chance they have to find good local talent, so they in turn have to go elsewhere to try to find the talent. So teams with a smaller market get a bigger geographical area to try to make up the gap.

    Here is a link with a more detailed explanation on how "territories" are supposed to work.

    http://www.brotherlygame.com/2015/9/...r-visual-guide

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Yes because the money the Hunts are flowing through the Fury are just there to prop up the CFL team.

    I'm not going to respond to the rest of your stuff only to say disdain via huge pics is annoying. If you are not interested, fine. Gigantic pictures of life 20 years ago are not necessary for this discussion.
    Og, dog. Stop being such a school marm.

    Carlos Valderamma's hair was larger than life. The dimensions of that pic don't begin to convey what he brought to life on earth in his prime. This proposed Canadian league couldn't begin to match the glory of one lock of his astonishing head of hair. If I could have created a large-format photo essay on him, I would have.

    As for "the Hunts" - whatever that means. I know who Jeff Hunt is. I know what OSEG is.

    The entire Lansdowne project has been a shitshow in a shell game. That stadium project has created nightmares for the people involved in building it. Lawsuits and liens out the ying-yang.

    And Hunt has a junior hockey team that was once the pride of the OHL, regularly drawing full houses to the Civic Arena, that now plays before crowds that barely top 2,000 per game in a crumbling, leaking, partially condemned building that is only cleared to hold half its capacity. One that happens to be structurally attached to the underside of the north grandstand of the RedInks stadium.

    With Melnyk now at the helm of the new arena project at LeBreton Flats, there's a huge game of financial chicken being played with the city at Lansdowne and it hardly suggests OSEG are a crowd-pleasing - or contented - bunch.
    Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 09-25-2016 at 07:08 PM.

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    Any updates for the proposed league?

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    Carlos Valderamma's hair was larger than life. The dimensions of that pic don't begin to convey what he brought to life on earth in his prime. This proposed Canadian league couldn't begin to match the glory of one lock of his astonishing head of hair. If I could have created a large-format photo essay on him, I would have.
    This thread concerns the future CPL. I don't get your resistance on the possibility of a Canadian league happening or the offense taken from discussing it.

    Now if you wanted to start a thread concerning your view of glory days of NA soccer, feel free. I would find that fascinating. No joke.
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    My views of past efforts to create a Canadian soccer league are entirely relevant to discussions on the efforts to create a new one. Especially when one carefully considers who is behind it, the root motives compelling them to do so, and the nature of the stadia they propose to play in.

    If you prefer to stick your head in the sand and ignore the issues that make this league a non-flyer, by all means, indulge yourself(s). But you'd do well to abide by the famous words of Spanish philospher and scuffling midfielder Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás : Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

    We did this Canadian league shit in the '80s and it couldn't have flopped more horribly. And at that time, we had two very viable NASL franchises in the Blizzard and Whitecaps moving into the CSL. Those teams didn't move to the CSL because they wanted to. No, they had to because NASL was built on an unsustainable economic model. And it didn't have anything close to the proper soccer-specific stadia we now see sprouting up all over North America.

    The CSL was a frothing flop from the get-go. With commissioner Dale Barnes - a former pro wrestling promoter, no less - raging at the media to cover his league and to learn to love soccer, it was never lacking noise and fury. It did have the full support of Air Canada to help minimize travel costs. But it never caught on and soon faded into financial ruin and oblivion. Earning the sport a cascade of snickers from a know-it-all mainstream media and setting the pro game back in Canada to such a degree that we are yet to fully recover from. Canada did, after all, qualify for and play in the 1986 World Cup and has yet to return.

    This proposed league is about playing mostly on plastic pitches in stadiums where CFL clubs are the prime tenant, with teams owned and operated by CFL owners or conglomerates that operate CFL, NHL and other teams. Nowhere in their corporate DNA have we seen soccer presented as a priority. The game has simply become a situational opportunity to generate subsidies for the CFL owners, who desperately need to broaden their business base to remain competitive and relevant in an ever-changing and ever-more competitive sports marketplace. Most worrisome for the CFL, is that in the three biggest and most essential markets for generating league sponsorship, MLS clubs have continued to grow both their fan bases and corporate support, steadily working away to erode the CFL's future prospects.

    Ottawa presents itself as having some soccer experience, but mostly it's a bolted-on accessory by a consortium that are facing some potential financial challenges ahead, needing a city to help underwrite stadium and arena improvements at a time when that city is focused on doing what it can to build a new arena for the Senators in LeBreton flats and getting a new LRT system built and operational. The council already has granted immense leeway for a lucrative commercial and retail development adjacent to Lansdowne against the wishes of neighbouring residents.

    The integrated stadium and arena structure is going to need more work soon and could get expensive. It should be no shock if the city is finding it hard to get motivated about throwing more money - unexpectedly - at it when a fabulous new arena project is about to spring up in a schwingy area and will help drive ridership on the LRT system now being built.

    The 'Hunts' can hardly cry poor after being treated so well. They can hardly claim the high moral ground either, when the Lansdowne project has created so much distress for - and lawsuits from - the designers and sub-contractors fighting to get paid for the work they did to get the new stand built.

    Are these the sort of people we're considering to be fit and proper owners to guide this crucial period of Canadian soccer development? Look at the other owners and consider where soccer has fit in their own sports business agendas. It's never been a priority. Now, their involvement smacks of a mixture - from both themselves and the CSA - of desperation and opportunism.

    Stop fooling yourselves that this is going to fly. It's a total turkey.
    Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 09-28-2016 at 03:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    In an era with far less competition for the sporting consumer's dollar and attention, Thunderin' Dale Barnes couldn't make an all-Canadian soccer league happen. And that was with great help from Air Canada. I doubt this one will fly. With fans or the airline's marketing people.



    You need to get kids out to games and committed to supporting teams.

    They are highly unlikely to abandon streamed highlights of MessiSuarezNeymar or FIFA video games to watch Dougie Clogger hoof it long for the Caledon Kickerz.

    It's a lovely, romantic notion but until someone rolls a barrel of cash into the room, it won't fly. Especially given that beneath the veneer of doing something noble for soccer in Canada, it's actually about subsidizing worried CFL owners who see soccer as a threat to their dwindling returns.
    So, so accurate.

    Canadians are modern, cosmopolitan people. Fewer even now than then live in small communities, without high-speed internet or cable. If we had brave businessmen who teamed up and financed a REAL pro league, with top players and multi-million dollar budgets, new stadiums etc, I think it would do very well. It would take years of commitment and capital investment, but we already know top-level football does well on TV; it's only the perception of an inferior product that keeps people away.

    And Og, the picture is historical context, something that seems sorely lacking every time this is tried in Canada. Multiple people involved in the failed CSL of the 90s are still involved in soccer in this country, or actively trying to be, and have ties to both NASL and USL already. The amount of reptilian opportunism involved in lower-division sports in North America by sociopaths would surprise most people.
    Last edited by jloome; 09-28-2016 at 03:31 PM.

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    Sorry but I don't think the pics are necessary, especially when combined with pejorative descriptors.

    I happened to have watched one of Justin Fashanu's first games for Norwich and one of his last for Hamilton Steelers. I know the context.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    My views of past efforts to create a Canadian soccer league are entirely relevant to discussions on the efforts to create a new one. Especially when one carefully considers who is behind it, the root motives compelling them to do so, and the nature of the stadia they propose to play in.

    If you prefer to stick your head in the sand and ignore the issues that make this league a non-flyer, by all means, indulge yourself(s). But you'd do well to abide by the famous words of Spanish philospher and scuffling midfielder Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás : Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

    We did this Canadian league shit in the '80s and it couldn't have flopped more horribly. And at that time, we had two very viable NASL franchises in the Blizzard and Whitecaps moving into the CSL. Those teams didn't move to the CSL because they wanted to. No, they had to because NASL was built on an unsustainable economic model. And it didn't have anything close to the proper soccer-specific stadia we now see sprouting up all over North America.

    The CSL was a frothing flop from the get-go. With commissioner Dale Barnes - a former pro wrestling promoter, no less - raging at the media to cover his league and to learn to love soccer, it was never lacking noise and fury. It did have the full support of Air Canada to help minimize travel costs. But it never caught on and soon faded into financial ruin and oblivion. Earning the sport a cascade of snickers from a know-it-all mainstream media and setting the pro game back in Canada to such a degree that we are yet to fully recover from. Canada did, after all, qualify for and play in the 1986 World Cup and has yet to return.

    This proposed league is about playing mostly on plastic pitches in stadiums where CFL clubs are the prime tenant, with teams owned and operated by CFL owners or conglomerates that operate CFL, NHL and other teams. Nowhere in their corporate DNA have we seen soccer presented as a priority. The game has simply become a situational opportunity to generate subsidies for the CFL owners, who desperately need to broaden their business base to remain competitive and relevant in an ever-changing and ever-more competitive sports marketplace. Most worrisome for the CFL, is that in the three biggest and most essential markets for generating league sponsorship, MLS clubs have continued to grow both their fan bases and corporate support, steadily working away to erode the CFL's future prospects.

    Are these the sort of people we're considering to be fit and proper owners to guide this crucial period of Canadian soccer development? Look at the other owners and consider where soccer has fit in their own sports business agendas. It's never been a priority. Now, their involvement smacks of a mixture - from both themselves and the CSA - of desperation and opportunism.

    Stop fooling yourselves that this is going to fly. It's a total turkey.
    I'd think someone that has seen leagues rise out of far less substance would be less inclined to say "never" about a new league happening at a time of higher interest in the game.

    Is it simply this particular version of a league you damn? Can you imagine the best alternative way to go forward with the game?

    Feel free to use pictures if inclined.

    I mean it goes two ways here. If you think we're not going to be talking about these people who can form a league (regardless of its eventual outcome) you're fooling yourself.
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 09-29-2016 at 07:35 AM.
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    It's isn't 1985 anymore. This is the age of FIFA games and extended soccer coverage in Canada. It doesn't really compare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    Ottawa presents itself as having some soccer experience, but mostly it's a bolted-on accessory by a consortium that are facing some potential financial challenges ahead, needing a city to help underwrite stadium and arena improvements at a time when that city is focused on doing what it can to build a new arena for the Senators in LeBreton flats and getting a new LRT system built and operational. The council already has granted immense leeway for a lucrative commercial and retail development adjacent to Lansdowne against the wishes of neighbouring residents.

    The integrated stadium and arena structure is going to need more work soon and could get expensive. It should be no shock if the city is finding it hard to get motivated about throwing more money - unexpectedly - at it when a fabulous new arena project is about to spring up in a schwingy area and will help drive ridership on the LRT system now being built.

    The 'Hunts' can hardly cry poor after being treated so well. They can hardly claim the high moral ground either, when the Lansdowne project has created so much distress for - and lawsuits from - the designers and sub-contractors fighting to get paid for the work they did to get the new stand built.
    Disclosure: I work for the City of Ottawa and I've seen the presentations and discussions on both sides of this argument. The Friends of Lansdowne were opposed to any redevelopment of the site. They wanted the area as a park for the local residents and used every legal block they could to delay and try to kill the project. The council had a vision for Lansdowne again being a place for the residents from all over the City to congregate, just like back in the days of the SuperEx and Rough Riders. The project has had some teething troubles, but overall it's been relatively successful as far as stadium renovations go. I did try to lobby for natural or hybrid grass, but I was told by the city project manager that it was always going to be turf. I guess with the FIFA rules that all tournaments have to played on the same type of surface, they weren't gong to pull the turf out of BC Place or Olympic Stadium. They even replaced the grass with turf in existing Moncton Stadium to comply with WC2015. If the CSA put in a WC2026 bid, you can bet they'll sell it as the first WC solely on Turf.

    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    Are these the sort of people we're considering to be fit and proper owners to guide this crucial period of Canadian soccer development? Look at the other owners and consider where soccer has fit in their own sports business agendas. It's never been a priority. Now, their involvement smacks of a mixture - from both themselves and the CSA - of desperation and opportunism.

    Stop fooling yourselves that this is going to fly. It's a total turkey.
    So who else would be willing to fund it? The stadium owners get more utilization out of their assets and a generation of Canadian players will have a chance to play professionally within their own country. There are three successful MLS teams that provide a destination to aspire to. TSN needs more summer Canadian content to counter Blue Jays games on Rogers. The CSA needs a domestic league as a prerequisite to bid on a World Cup. I think FIFA would rather give it to Canada for the first time than to the USA for a second time and Mexico for a third time. The other CONCACAF nations simply don't have the financial resources to build the infrastructure necessary. The only infrastructure that would need to be built is maybe a new 25-40K seat stadium in Halifax and an 80K seat Stadium in Toronto for the Final, which would be re-purposed after the tournament for the new NFL team, the Toronto Argonauts.

    Ideally, the new league would survive the first 8 years on TV revenues and attendances of 3000-5000. Hopefully after 8 years the average attendance will climb to 7500-10000 at which point the league would start having healthy gate revenue that could offset a poor TV contract.

    And if the CPL fails, so what? If nothing gets done in this window, it's gong to be at least another 20 years until Canada tries again. At that point, the CSA would probably let any team that wanted to play in the USL or whatever they call the US Div II to join that league, but WC2026 would have been awarded at that point and it wouldn't be coming back to the region for at least another 28 years.

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    Thank you for that reply, IB. You make a fair bit of sense and if a new league meant Canada could bid for a World Cup, that would be great. Still, who in their right mind would hope to see Canada awarded a World Cup where every game was played on plastic?

    But the States didn't have a proper league going on when FIFA awarded it the '94 World Cup. After NASL, the landscape was chaotic for soccer. Teams came and went like shit through a goose and anything being mooted as a proper league was a façade to get the WC hosting rights. Of course, FIFA played along in order to tap into a great new market and the promise of a league was sufficient to get the cup. Canada's not remotely in that situation, though we are in FIFA's good books for being excellent hosts of other finals.

    The only way I can see this league being funded long enough and well enough to ensure short-to-mid term survivability is for a media entity to underwrite much of the league's costs in the manner that TSN have done with the CFL. They basically cover the players' salaries on each club.

    The biggest problem is which network would want to lavish tens of millions annually on a sub-standard league with no chance of re-couping the costs? Who exactly would flock to their TV screens to watch such a league? Does anyone remotely believe this would attract significant eyeballs when MLS games struggle to draw a decent TV audience? How do they get past the fact that MLS is solidly established and thriving in the three largest markets? If those clubs are steadily eroding the viability of their local CFL rivals, what chance would a lower-tier league have of competing for media coverage, fan interest and sponsorship?

    The solution, of course, is for FIFA itself to do something crazy, like some sort of missionary work. Bankroll the entire project using future revenues from a World Cup as security. In earlier regimes, that sort of thing might have been discreetly do-able using the organization's global sponsor brands to front such an effort. In the current climate regarding FIFA's leadership, that seems highly unlikely.

    If you work for the city of Ottawa, then you well know about the legal strife that is swirling around the construction of the new stand. It's been financially devastating for some involved and this is hardly covering OSEG or the city itself in glory and should make anyone looking at this group as potential CSL owners feel very wary.

    You would also know that there are many issues yet to be resolved about the structure of the arena that integrates into the north stand - condemned suites and press box. There are many dollars yet to be spent there and who knows who's going to have to spend them. The city has already done it's part for both OSEG's interests and the Lansdowne development. I hope you hold their feet to the fire.

    I also heartily endorse your notion of migrating the Argonauts brand into a NFL franchise someday. As a child, I grew up in a home that loved the club and it's colours and utterly detested Russ Jackson. Toronto has long outgrown the CFL and this would take the currently futile efforts for the preservation of football in Toronto in the only direction that makes sense.
    Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 09-29-2016 at 02:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    Thank you for that reply, IB. You make a fair bit of sense and if a new league meant Canada could bid for a World Cup, that would be great. Still, who in their right mind would hope to see Canada awarded a World Cup where every game was played on plastic?
    I think FIFA wants to put to be once and for all that the latest turf is less safe than grass. Take the source with a grain of salt, but FWIW: http://www.fieldturf.eu/en/latest-ne...ries-per-match Now, perhaps women don't put as much stress on their joints playing on turf than men do because men are usually throwing more mass around making sudden changes in direction, but assuming that the Confederations Cup matches would highlight any injuries for more data.

    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    But the States didn't have a proper league going on when FIFA awarded it the '94 World Cup. After NASL, the landscape was chaotic for soccer. Teams came and went like shit through a goose and anything being mooted as a proper league was a façade to get the WC hosting rights. Of course, FIFA played along in order to tap into a great new market and the promise of a league was sufficient to get the cup. Canada's not remotely in that situation, though we are in FIFA's good books for being excellent hosts of other finals.
    I think FIFA was salivating at making inroads into the worlds largest media market at the time, so I think they were willing to stretch the requirements a bit. The record attendance for the event seems to have borne them out.

    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    The only way I can see this league being funded long enough and well enough to ensure short-to-mid term survivability is for a media entity to underwrite much of the league's costs in the manner that TSN have done with the CFL. They basically cover the players' salaries on each club.
    Agree. That's what is keeping NASL from becoming a rival to MLS and what has helped drive up the salary cap (and TAM/GAM) in MLS. A decent TV contract that would allow CPL teams to pay for better quality players would make it the stepping stone to bigger and better things. I'm okay with that so long as the quality of play is high enough. Last year, the Ottawa Fury played a beautiful style of soccer. This year, not so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    The biggest problem is which network would want to lavish tens of millions annually on a sub-standard league with no chance of re-couping the costs? Who exactly would flock to their TV screens to watch such a league? Does anyone remotely believe this would attract significant eyeballs when MLS games struggle to draw a decent TV audience? How do they get past the fact that MLS is solidly established and thriving in the three largest markets? If those clubs are steadily eroding the viability of their local CFL rivals, what chance would a lower-tier league have of competing for media coverage, fan interest and sponsorship?

    The solution, of course, is for FIFA itself to do something crazy, like some sort of missionary work. Bankroll the entire project using future revenues from a World Cup as security. In earlier regimes, that sort of thing might have been discreetly do-able using the organization's global sponsor brands to front such an effort. In the current climate regarding FIFA's leadership, that seems highly unlikely.
    FIFA doesn't have to do anything except provide the WC TV rights for the CSA to auction off to the highest bidder, with the added stipulation that any domestic network would have to air at least 60 regular season and playoff games a year (and Voyageur Cup games), every year leading up to WC2026. Think about how much the worldwide rights for WC2026 would pay out?

    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    If you work for the city of Ottawa, then you well know about the legal strife that is swirling around the construction of the new stand. It's been financially devastating for some involved and this is hardly covering OSEG or the city itself in glory and should make anyone looking at this group as potential CSL owners feel very wary.

    You would also know that there are many issues yet to be resolved about the structure of the arena that integrates into the north stand - condemned suites and press box. There are many dollars yet to be spent there and who knows who's going to have to spend them. The city has already done it's part for both OSEG's interests and the Lansdowne development. I hope you hold their feet to the fire.
    Almost all of the City involvement with the Lansdowne project has wound down, but we still hear about the leaky ceilings and faulty air conditioning. The Mayor at the time wanted the private companies to pay for the project since the City was providing the land. The led to a tight squeeze in finances as unanticipated problems in the Civic Centre roof were found. The extra $26 million required to fix it threw everyone's ROI and risk calculations for a loop and was probably the main cause for the strife and litigation that has followed. Now that the work is done, it's up to the contractors and subcontractors to sort out who is going to eat the costs. T

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    Well, there's the Ottawa Fury bolting NASL for USL, where they'll get to play MLS reserve sides TFC II and FC Montreal. It looks like a good chance to assess how strongly the proposed all-Canadian league might fare.

    I know Ottawa draws decent crowds. Family there are season ticket holders. No idea what les petites Impact draw. And TFC II? Family and friends?

    With Tampa Bay moving to USL and Minn. Utd to MLS, it's not looking good for NASL. Edmonton don't draw well and now look very isolated
    Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 10-25-2016 at 05:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    Well, there's the Ottawa Fury bolting NASL for USL, where they'll get to play MLS reserve sides TFC II and FC Montreal. It looks like a good chance to assess how strongly the proposed all-Canadian league might fare.

    I know Ottawa draws decent crowds. Family there are season ticket holders. No idea what les petites Impact draw. And TFC II? Family and friends?

    With Tampa Bay moving to USL and Minn. Utd to MLS, it's not looking good for NASL. Edmonton don't draw well and now look very isolated
    Fath said in July, its getting to the point they are looking at shutting down ... maybe they will look at USL too to cut costs.
    Last edited by Onyx; 10-25-2016 at 08:46 PM.

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    Two NASL teams going into USL - one confirmed as the Tampa Bay Rowdies.

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    Would be great if it could work... heavily skeptical.

    Smart money bet: juice the USL sides with as many incentives as possible to develop Canadian talent. Have national team improve which should spur interest, revisit Canadian league idea in a decade or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Two NASL teams going into USL - one confirmed as the Tampa Bay Rowdies.
    Well, there be news articles that confirm Ottawa as the other:

    http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/10/25/...-to-new-league

    Jings. It says they've lost $2 million this past season. Can't see them making any money playing lower level soccer even against Canadian rivals at that level. This Canadian league thing is a lovely notion but a pipe dream when the finances are tallied up.

    As I've always said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    Well, there be news articles that confirm Ottawa as the other:

    http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/10/25/...-to-new-league

    Jings. It says they've lost $2 million this past season. Can't see them making any money playing lower level soccer even against Canadian rivals at that level. This Canadian league thing is a lovely notion but a pipe dream when the finances are tallied up.

    As I've always said.
    I'm looking at the NASL folding eventually. They could have worked with MLS, instead by their hubris (just like the original NASL) they are trying to be too much. Eventually everyone will get tired of losing money, and all of the clubs will either join MLS or USL, or fold.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    Well, there be news articles that confirm Ottawa as the other:

    http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/10/25/...-to-new-league

    Jings. It says they've lost $2 million this past season. Can't see them making any money playing lower level soccer even against Canadian rivals at that level. This Canadian league thing is a lovely notion but a pipe dream when the finances are tallied up.

    As I've always said.
    And I'd agree that CPL would be a pipe dream if it was left to individual owners to sink or swim. That's why I'm sure the CSA is not going to go that route. They'll go with what works - the single-entity MLS model. But even that won't be enough without enough TV revenue to prop up the boat for the first decade. That is how long it took for MLS to stabilize and start growing.

    And I'm curious to see how strong the former NASL teams will be playing in what is ostensibly a lower division.

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    A while back I looked into what it takes to start a league in Canada, more specifically Southern Ontario, and the rules set down by FIFA to CSA to OSA were incredibly limiting. I'm pretty sure FIFA will not allow a Canadian Div 1 league to exist while allowing Canadian teams to live in a USSF governed league. The only reason Toronto was granted permission to play in the MLS (USSF gov) was due to the fact that Canada had no Div 1 football. So any new league would have to be at most a Div 2 league. This was the level I was looking at creating years ago and got SLAMMED by OSA for trying because it stepped on the then, up and coming, L1O.

    So back to Kurt's article. Why is TFC so interested in "partnering" so badly with this new league? Is it perhaps that they, TFC, are governed by CSA and FIFA and as such, have to do as they're told, aka don't want to get screwed? I think the part about ML$E investing a boatload of cash into this franchise is bang on.... and they don't want to have any of that investment effed with! Making sure this is a Div 2 league has got to be pretty damn important to ML$E from my perspective. Will be interesting to see what really happens with it.

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    It's the casual fans that fill the stadiums with a small portion of hardcore fans, TFC and the other Canadian teams have been able to get the casuals to come to the stadium, that is why you see decent attendance numbers for the 3 Canadian MLS teams. Now we are going to ask these casuals who are just starting to have an interest in the 3 MLS Canadian teams to come out and support a new Canadian league it ain't happening at least in the 3 MLS Canadian cities, the casuals will not be attending you are looking at USL reserve team MLS attendance numbers. For the rest of Canada the numbers are just not going to be there, see Edmonton and even Ottawa in the NASL and their struggles. The best we can hope for is for more Canadian teams to join the USL and go from there. I'm sorry but just because the way Canadians view sports in Canada we don't think in Canadian league terms we like our North American leagues, even the CFL with all it's history is starting to struggle in the bigger Canadian cities.

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    Does anyone think a Div 2 (or maybe Div 3) large league would work with divisions carved geographically to minimize travel and maximize using Canadian University grounds instead of CFL stadiums? Getting the 3-4k out would have a much better chance when teams are very local. Travelling support would be relatively close for most games. This would be the sort of grass roots building I'd like to see. Of course the governance would be at the provincial level not the CSA level and that would be a serious challenge.

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    No.

    Dammit, Bones, you're a doctor, not some cheap circus magician.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bones View Post
    Does anyone think a Div 2 (or maybe Div 3) large league would work with divisions carved geographically to minimize travel and maximize using Canadian University grounds instead of CFL stadiums? Getting the 3-4k out would have a much better chance when teams are very local. Travelling support would be relatively close for most games. This would be the sort of grass roots building I'd like to see. Of course the governance would be at the provincial level not the CSA level and that would be a serious challenge.
    That's what I see eventually happening: Buses to in-conference games and flights to out of conference games (might be a problem for Victoria, but I assume a single entity structure would help share the added costs). They'll divide the league into two 4-team conferences, playing in-conference teams 4 times a season and out of conference teams 3 times a season for a 24 game season. When they get to 10 teams, they will play in-conference teams 4 times a season and out of conference teams twice a season for a 26 game season. If the league ends up wildly successful and can afford to expand to 12 teams, then they would play out of conference teams twice a season, in-conference teams 3 times a season with an extra game against their closest rival for a 28 game season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    That's what I see eventually happening: Buses to in-conference games and flights to out of conference games (might be a problem for Victoria, but I assume a single entity structure would help share the added costs). They'll divide the league into two 4-team conferences, playing in-conference teams 4 times a season and out of conference teams 3 times a season for a 24 game season. When they get to 10 teams, they will play in-conference teams 4 times a season and out of conference teams twice a season for a 26 game season. If the league ends up wildly successful and can afford to expand to 12 teams, then they would play out of conference teams twice a season, in-conference teams 3 times a season with an extra game against their closest rival for a 28 game season.
    Oh yeah?

    What schools do you see getting involved? Which ones have adequate facilities? Which of those aren't playing on plastic?

    Coz your everyday soccer fan isn't going to want to watch tier 3 soccer played on plastic. In fact, your typical tier 3 soccer player isn't going to be all that jumped up about playing on plastic.

    It was awful watching the Lynx playing in the rinky dink set up of a track and field stadium in Etobicoke and that, at least, was on grass. Your modern sports fan is going to need something better than that if they're to become involved enough to fulfill your vision.

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    I should have started my post with "This is..." instead of "That's...".

    I see them splitting east and west and unbalancing the schedule, but they'll probably still use the big stadiums and cordon off the upper sections. So long as the lower sections are filled and the supporters are loud, it will look and sound good on TV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    No.

    Dammit, Bones, you're a doctor, not some cheap circus magician.
    I've been waiting years for someone to do that!!! BAAAHAHAHAHAHA

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    Former TFC exec hired

    In a major step toward its projected 2018 debut, soccer's Canadian Premier League has hired its first official employee.

    And, in the Canadian footy world, he's a biggie.

    Paul Beirne, who was also the first employee of Toronto FC, is the project manager for the new professional league which he says will start play with "six to 10 teams across the country." Most will be there for the projected league kickoff in 2018, he says, although some might wait until 2019 to begin play.
    http://www.thespec.com/sports-story/...es-major-hire/

 

 

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