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  1. #61
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    9 team league, like the CFL:

    Toronto Suburb
    Montreal Suburb
    Vancouver Suburb
    Ottawa
    Regina
    Edmonton
    Calgary
    Hamilton
    Winnipeg[/QUOTE]


    Don't discount Halifax, Quebec City Mississauga, (as distinct from a Toronto suburb) or even the tri-cities of Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge. Mississauga has a population of over 3/4 of a million and the Tri-cities are almost half a million.

  2. #62
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    Just market it as its own team but have official affiliations. If the CPL were smart they'd cut a deal with USL and MLS to be a feeder league, but with a clause against in-season movement up the ladder, to ensure roster stability.

    The only way pro soccer ever makes it in Canada is if it's marketed as competently professional, with a good atmosphere for supporters. That can happen with USL/NASL level soccer, for sure, but it's all appearances. Have a Toronto team, have a Montreal team. Have them play derbies in the Voyageurs Cup against their MLS parents. Give them different names, colors, brands. Make them technically independent but then have the two work closely.

    Appearances and perception are everything when you're building a culture, a social ethic, around an idea or series of ideas. If they have good seating close to fields without football lines (perception sells to non hardcores, perception of polish) and good div. 2/3/4 level players, it can succeed.

    Why not have MLS back it in part financially? MLS team roster restrictions remain in line (outside of DPs, of course) with what CFL clubs spend. Surely the hardcore grassroots supporters pushing this will realize the owners have to be able to spend money and market professionally in order to make money.

    MLS for its part could take its cue from another single entity business, WWE wrestling, and use the affiliate league to develop and stoke rivalries. Local derbies between a smaller and bigger club could really push soccer forward in this country.

    A CPL that's just an eight-team indie league, under-capitalized and running on the fumes of grassroots dreams will fail again.
    Last edited by jloome; 09-20-2016 at 08:30 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    What would happen if the CSA said now that Canada has its own league we feel it's only appropriate that all pro teams in this country play in it. Truth be told if they really wanted too they could do it.
    Legally no they couldn't do it. The lawsuit from MLS/VWFC/Impact/TFC would cost the CSA tens of millions and they still wouldn't be playing the CPL.

    The only possible way to do it would be to buy the 3 MLS clubs but that costs between $1b and $2b US which I'm not sure anyone in the CSA or any future CPL owners has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza_55 View Post
    Legally no they couldn't do it. The lawsuit from MLS/VWFC/Impact/TFC would cost the CSA tens of millions and they still wouldn't be playing the CPL.

    The only possible way to do it would be to buy the 3 MLS clubs but that costs between $1b and $2b US which I'm not sure anyone in the CSA or any future CPL owners has.
    Not sure about the $1-2B figure, but it should be noted in 2006, Toronto FC could've been had for the grand sum of $10 million!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    What's the harm of allowing TFC II or TFC III to compete in this league?
    In my opinion, "optics" isn't a good enough excuse.
    MLSE has invested more in the Canadian player than any other entity in history. And now you're going to exclude them?
    I just don't get that.
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    Last edited by DSouzaZ; 09-20-2016 at 10:38 PM.

  6. #66
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    Leave existing teams in NASL and MLS.

    WEST:
    Victoria
    Burnaby
    Calgary
    Regina
    Winnipeg


    EAST:
    Kitchener/Waterloo
    Hamilton
    York Region FC (Play @ York U)
    Quebec City
    Halifax

    10 team league to start, Keep it simple.
    Last edited by tfcmanu; 09-20-2016 at 11:09 PM.

  7. #67
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    I'm pretty darn sure both Edmonton and Ottawa want out of NASL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    I dont mean a transfer fee per say, but I guess they would be paying this fee already through league franchise fees.

    Im just saying the league cannot and should not exist just to promote players to TFC, VC, MTL.

    How will this be fair to teams that don't have player promotion. they will be at a disadvantage in a capped league, why would players want to play there?

    If Hamilton offers 50k, Toronto offers 50k. The player will most probably take Toronto hoping to make the senior team
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    Last thing we need is MLSE big league-ing the CPL by decimating line ups in mid-season call up situations.

    TFC2 is about player development first and foremost and you can't have them competing in a serious manner against teams that are not subject to the parent club messing with the line up on a frequent basis.

    why not?......does R. Madrid's, Barca's, Bayern's, etc. "II" teams not play in lower divisions of their respective teams?.....

    perhaps for the Canadian MLS teams there could be some mechanism in place to avoid it from getting out of hand, but the MLS II teams should play in the league.
    I know definitely not all will agree with this statement, but imo having that attachment to MLS could bring some status to the league and keep fans of the MLS teams engaged to see how their "II" team is doing.....

    Something needs to attract people to the league, and that could be it.....look, I've been to see the CSL Vaughan team at Joan of Arc HS a few times but stopped because it became too costly.....$15 a ticket to sit on metal bleachers when for $5 more I can go watch TFC......
    Last edited by TFC Tifoso; 09-21-2016 at 07:56 AM.

  9. #69
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    This might come as a surprise, but we don't have the talent pool, let alone a multi-tiered league like they do in Europe.

    What happens when Benfica II wins the Segunda? They stay there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    This might come as a surprise, but we don't have the talent pool, let alone a multi-tiered league like they do in Europe.

    What happens when Benfica II wins the Segunda? They stay there.
    Our top tier player pool isn't that good, but we have a significant enough player pool to fill out a league.

    http://www.rednationonline.ca/Articl...layerPool.aspx

    This doesn't include young pros/ex-pros playing in L1O type divisions which is probably more.

    Similar to MLS, I see CPL haven't similar drop off of talent between starter and squad player. Starter quality with internationals should be around USL level (obviously depending on salary cap).

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    Honestly, I feel that Moncton would be a better choice than Halifax for the East.

    Why not both even? Charlottetown also as great facilities at UPEI for when they hosted Canada Games.

    A little off topic, but I just hate how the east coast is just forgotten always in discussions like this.
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    Is it super unrealistic that MLSE buys the rights to something like the trademarks for the Blizzard (as an example)... Runs the CPL team with separate branding from TFC, and loans a handful of younger players there each season to get constant playing time at a level (eventually) higher than the USL?

  13. #73
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    In an era with far less competition for the sporting consumer's dollar and attention, Thunderin' Dale Barnes couldn't make an all-Canadian soccer league happen. And that was with great help from Air Canada. I doubt this one will fly. With fans or the airline's marketing people.



    You need to get kids out to games and committed to supporting teams.

    They are highly unlikely to abandon streamed highlights of MessiSuarezNeymar or FIFA video games to watch Dougie Clogger hoof it long for the Caledon Kickerz.

    It's a lovely, romantic notion but until someone rolls a barrel of cash into the room, it won't fly. Especially given that beneath the veneer of doing something noble for soccer in Canada, it's actually about subsidizing worried CFL owners who see soccer as a threat to their dwindling returns.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I'm pretty darn sure both Edmonton and Ottawa want out of NASL.
    They would be great additions to MLS - well, Ottawa for sure - but, as we've discussed before, until someone ponies up the expansion fee or buys and moves a franchise north, that won't happen. I have family who are SSH in Ottawa and think MLS would do better there than Montreal. An Ottawa team would be a boost, too, for Montreal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodooman View Post
    Honestly, I feel that Moncton would be a better choice than Halifax for the East.

    Why not both even? Charlottetown also as great facilities at UPEI for when they hosted Canada Games.

    A little off topic, but I just hate how the east coast is just forgotten always in discussions like this.
    just too far until they have enough teams that play east only and west only, then champs play eachother.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    They would be great additions to MLS - well, Ottawa for sure - but, as we've discussed before, until someone ponies up the expansion fee or buys and moves a franchise north, that won't happen. I have family who are SSH in Ottawa and think MLS would do better there than Montreal. An Ottawa team would be a boost, too, for Montreal.
    true, that's 6 sellout games right there. but TV speaks in the end

  17. #77
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    Not sure how much longer NASL will be around in its current form, prognosis is poor right now. Safe assumption that the current Canadian NASL teams will move to CPL. USL will claim 2nd tier and any successor league to NASL will probably be 3rd tier.
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by troy1982 View Post
    The Ottawa Fury are burning through money at the NASL level and want to move to the USL because of cheaper travel and cheaper players. A Canadian league coast to coast will have a travel cost higher than the USL though as travel cost in Canada are higher than in the U.S.
    Anyone who thinks the CPL will last more than a couple of years is disillusion IMHO
    Please note that there is no National TV contract with NASL nor does the league have a sponsorship with a national airline. A TV contract paying out at least $1 million to each team's salaries and a national airline providing discount fares to teams would leave NASL in a better position than they are now. If the new CPL doesn't have a TV contract, then it is doomed. To get a TV contract, you at minimum need a BC named team (Victoria, playing out of Royal Athletic Park), a Quebec-named team (in Quebec City, playing out of PEPS stadium), and a Toronto team for TV execs to show their sponsors that they have enough Market Saturation. The top 10 Canadian markets are:

    1. Toronto/Hamilton/Niagara Falls
    2. Montreal/Laval
    3. Vancouver/Victoria
    4. Ottawa/Gatineau
    5. Edmonton
    6. Calgary/Lethbridge
    7. Quebec City/Levis
    8. Winnipeg/Brandon
    9. Kitchener-Waterloo/Cambridge/Guelph
    10. London/Woodstock/Wingham
    11. Halifax/Dartmouth
    12. St. John/Fredericton/Moncton

    Saskatoon and Regina are #18 and #20 respectively, but together they're probably the equivalent of Halifax. Those markets probably contain around 80% of the TV market.

    Now, the Toronto team has to be considered separate from TFC for the CPL to not be considered minor league. It could be run by MLSE, but TFC would have to loan out players to the team for a season and player contracts would be seperate from TFC. If they want to turn heads with the new league and crank up the nostalgia, they'll name them the Toronto Blizzard. To give the league legitimacy and a quality benchmark, they'll need FC Edmonton and Ottawa Fury who by end of this season will have NASL playoff pedigree.

    Through watching the Ottawa Fury this year, I can see the CPL acting a lot like the NASL is now: The teams will be a place for older Canadian players to finish out their careers (Julian de Guzman), those who don't quite have what it takes to play at MLS level (Maxime Tissot), good players who are playing for a better contract (Marcel de Jong), and players coming up through the academy (Dario Conte). FC Edmonton is very similar. Multiply this team by 8 or 10 and I would be very comfortable with the pyramid set up.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodooman View Post
    Honestly, I feel that Moncton would be a better choice than Halifax for the East.

    Why not both even? Charlottetown also as great facilities at UPEI for when they hosted Canada Games.

    A little off topic, but I just hate how the east coast is just forgotten always in discussions like this.
    Maritimers FC could play out of the 10,000 seat Moncton Stadium. Halifax doesn't have one.

    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    You need to get kids out to games and committed to supporting teams.

    They are highly unlikely to abandon streamed highlights of MessiSuarezNeymar or FIFA video games to watch Dougie Clogger hoof it long for the Caledon Kickerz.

    It's a lovely, romantic notion but until someone rolls a barrel of cash into the room, it won't fly. Especially given that beneath the veneer of doing something noble for soccer in Canada, it's actually about subsidizing worried CFL owners who see soccer as a threat to their dwindling returns.
    There is nothing wrong with hitching a ride on the backs of worried CFL owners (or their TSN sponsor) so long as the end result is Canada gets to a World Cup again in my lifetime. Another way to increase exposure would be to lobby EA Sports to include the CPL and its players in it's FIFA18/19 video game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    Please note that there is no National TV contract with NASL nor does the league have a sponsorship with a national airline. A TV contract paying out at least $1 million to each team's salaries and a national airline providing discount fares to teams would leave NASL in a better position than they are now. If the new CPL doesn't have a TV contract, then it is doomed. To get a TV contract, you at minimum need a BC named team (Victoria, playing out of Royal Athletic Park), a Quebec-named team (in Quebec City, playing out of PEPS stadium), and a Toronto team for TV execs to show their sponsors that they have enough Market Saturation. The top 10 Canadian markets are:

    1. Toronto/Hamilton/Niagara Falls
    2. Montreal/Laval
    3. Vancouver/Victoria
    4. Ottawa/Gatineau
    5. Edmonton
    6. Calgary/Lethbridge
    7. Quebec City/Levis
    8. Winnipeg/Brandon
    9. Kitchener-Waterloo/Cambridge/Guelph
    10. London/Woodstock/Wingham
    11. Halifax/Dartmouth
    12. St. John/Fredericton/Moncton

    Saskatoon and Regina are #18 and #20 respectively, but together they're probably the equivalent of Halifax. Those markets probably contain around 80% of the TV market.

    Now, the Toronto team has to be considered separate from TFC for the CPL to not be considered minor league. It could be run by MLSE, but TFC would have to loan out players to the team for a season and player contracts would be seperate from TFC. If they want to turn heads with the new league and crank up the nostalgia, they'll name them the Toronto Blizzard. To give the league legitimacy and a quality benchmark, they'll need FC Edmonton and Ottawa Fury who by end of this season will have NASL playoff pedigree.

    Through watching the Ottawa Fury this year, I can see the CPL acting a lot like the NASL is now: The teams will be a place for older Canadian players to finish out their careers (Julian de Guzman), those who don't quite have what it takes to play at MLS level (Maxime Tissot), good players who are playing for a better contract (Marcel de Jong), and players coming up through the academy (Dario Conte). FC Edmonton is very similar. Multiply this team by 8 or 10 and I would be very comfortable with the pyramid set up.
    Sounds like a plan. Which team gets to sign Carlos Valderamma?



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    Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 09-21-2016 at 01:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    This might come as a surprise, but we don't have the talent pool, let alone a multi-tiered league like they do in Europe.

    What happens when Benfica II wins the Segunda? They stay there.
    I get that, but as it stands TFC (and TFC II) function the same way the would if a CPL is formed with a TFC II in it.....only difference would be the league name unless I'm missing something....

    Besides, we have no pro/rel here anyways, so teams would be staying in their respective leagues form year to year.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by spe18 View Post
    Not sure about the $1-2B figure, but it should be noted in 2006, Toronto FC could've been had for the grand sum of $10 million!
    It's not 2006 anymore and the latest Forbes valuation is $245m US. Let's say the CPL wants to try and remove all the Cdn MLS Teams in 2018. The cost to purchase the clubs and basically have them go bankrupt in the CPL is at least double their current value IMO. In TFC's case they still are obligated to pay to the BMO Field Upgrades, KIA Training Centre etc.....

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    ....
    It's a lovely, romantic notion but until someone rolls a barrel of cash into the room, it won't fly. Especially given that beneath the veneer of doing something noble for soccer in Canada, it's actually about subsidizing worried CFL owners who see soccer as a threat to their dwindling returns.
    Yes because the money the Hunts are flowing through the Fury are just there to prop up the CFL team.

    I'm not going to respond to the rest of your stuff only to say disdain via huge pics is annoying. If you are not interested, fine. Gigantic pictures of life 20 years ago are not necessary for this discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC Tifoso View Post
    I get that, but as it stands TFC (and TFC II) function the same way the would if a CPL is formed with a TFC II in it.....only difference would be the league name unless I'm missing something....

    Besides, we have no pro/rel here anyways, so teams would be staying in their respective leagues form year to year.....
    your thinking tfc2 switches leagues? I dont think thats gonna fly with CPL. I dont see them allowing players to move back and forth like they do b/w MLS and USL. This will be a 3rd team if MLSE gets involved.
    plus, that current location YFC2 plays out of is not going to attract anyone

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    http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/09...ce-partnership

    Maybe this has something to do with the CPL

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    your thinking tfc2 switches leagues? I dont think thats gonna fly with CPL. I dont see them allowing players to move back and forth like they do b/w MLS and USL. This will be a 3rd team if MLSE gets involved.
    plus, that current location YFC2 plays out of is not going to attract anyone
    no, just using TFC II as an example of how an affiliation to TFC with a CPL team could not be much different than what they already have with TFC II.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renda-10 View Post
    http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/09...ce-partnership

    Maybe this has something to do with the CPL
    It doesn't. That's just to stop Vancouver from establishing their academy affiliations all over southern ontario like they're trying to do every where else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSouzaZ View Post
    It doesn't. That's just to stop Vancouver from establishing their academy affiliations all over southern ontario like they're trying to do every where else.
    Yeah, it's really interesting that while the Whitecaps have exclusive rights over Western Canada and the Impact have exclusive rights in Quebec, TFC only has exclusive rights for the 50-mile radius around Downsview. The rest of Canada is up for grabs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    Yeah, it's really ass-burning that while the Whitecaps have exclusive rights over Western Canada and the Impact have exclusive rights in Quebec, TFC only has exclusive rights for the 50-mile radius around Downsview. The rest of Canada is up for grabs.
    fixed.

    I get having problems between Quebec up by you, hell even glad we got Windsor from future Detroit rumblings but WTH is Vancouver doing cherry picking over here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    Yeah, it's really interesting that while the Whitecaps have exclusive rights over Western Canada and the Impact have exclusive rights in Quebec, TFC only has exclusive rights for the 50-mile radius around Downsview. The rest of Canada is up for grabs.
    I guess it's technically no different then the LA Galaxy having exclusive rights in only the LA area, while Real Salt Lake have exclusive rights in all of Utah and Arizona, or something like that

 

 

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