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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    That stadium is nice. How would you improve it?
    some temp seats that bring you a bit closer to the game

    the running track separation isnt the best, but I wouldn't let it stop me form catching a few games.

    Other than that I think the stadium is great

    Sunday games are very doable, subway and even parking is pretty decent on Sundays in that area.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    It means, simply put, that change will be easier in this country.
    Yeah I don't think people realise what it means to have a Canadian on the FIFA exec, with a mandate to start a national league in order to go after a World Cup.

    If I'm running TSN or Sportsnet or CBC, I'm going to listen to the guy who has a lot of influence on TV contracts for the World Cup. That can be leveraged very easily into a TSN deal, especially with the tie in to CFL teams.

    If MLSE and the other 2 Canadian teams are smart and play up the partnership, they can get a better TSN contract out of this.

    The template is Fox down in the States. "You like USWNT and USMNT & World Cup? Hey, that's cool. BTW, have we got an MLS product for you!"

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    But we're talking about an extreme circumstance here.
    Listen, I'm just being honest when I say the CPL will be less publicized than the Wolfpack/Rock in Toronto.
    It's going to be a developmental league.
    I'm sully supportive of it. But am kind of perplexed by the romantic view some people have.
    It's not a matter of being romantic, it's a matter of wanting the league to survive. It's fine if it's a developmental league like the Eredivisie, but you do not want the Canadian Public to look at the league as a minor league because it needs eyeballs on the TVs and bums in the seats if this has any hope of sustaining itself through the first decade. I think in the casual public's mind NASL is just another league at the moment, so if the CSA can get FC Edmonton and Ottawa Fury to jump ship to this new league, that would give it instant credibility. But a Toronto (or York?) team would have to be seen as a seperate club from TFC so it would have to be under MLSE ownership.

    I'm really curious if the CSA is making a similar overture to Montreal and Vancouver. It seems like they could live without teams in those cities if they can get Victorian and Quebec City or board, but the GTA seems to be a must-have. I hear the CPL wants to play in stadiums that hold around 10,000 spectators. I think that's really ambitious at first. BMO field would be too big. You could probably put a team in at York University's new stadium, but I think that would be too close to TFC II. It would be better if they put a team out in Scarborough or Oshawa to spread out the footprint of the team, but there are no stadiums in that area that could hold that amount of people.

    The league should sell itself as Division 1 in Canada, but act as a development league for mostly Canadian talent with some Central American influence. If I were setting the rules for the CPL, I would put a salary cap of $1.2-1.5 million with teams allowed to take 1 designated player where only $150,000 of his salary counts against the cap. Teams would consist of 24-26 players with the first 20 players being counted under the cap. Team composition would have a maximum of 8 international players (including Americans as internationals) with the rest being Canadians. I would also make it a rule that at least two of the starters must be Canadian U-23s. In an 8 team league, that would mean there would be a minimum 24 canadian players playing each week, with 16 of them being U-23s. I think there is enough quality now that you could find 24 canadians to start and still manage to play decent-looking football. I would encourage getting players from Honduras, Costa Rica, Haiti, Panama, Guatemala and other CA and Carribean countries by enticing them with better salaries than they could get playing in their own country to raise the initial quality of the game.

    But I still think the only way this survives is to have a stable 8-10 year TV contract shared between TSN and Sportsnet that will offset low attendence for the first 5 years until the league becomes entrenched in the Canadian consciousness and start coming to the stadiums. It also needs to have a sponsorship with a Canadian Air Carrier to subsidize transportation costs, as that is what will kill teams, especially with a country the size of Canada.

    In my mind, a Fully Functional, healthy CPL would have 10 teams with a 26 game schedule:
    Western Conference: Victoria, FC Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatchewan, Winnipeg
    Eastern Conference: Hamilton, GTA, Ottawa, Quebec City, Moncton/Halifax
    Last edited by Initial B; 09-20-2016 at 11:54 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    It's not a matter of being romantic, it's a matter of wanting the league to survive. It's fine if it's a developmental league like the Eredivisie, but you do not want the Canadian Public to look at the league as a minor league because it needs eyeballs on the TVs and bums in the seats if this has any hope of sustaining itself through the first decade. I think in the casual public's mind NASL is just another league at the moment, so if the CSA can get FC Edmonton and Ottawa Fury to jump ship to this new league, that would give it instant credibility. But a Toronto (or York?) team would have to be seen as a seperate club from TFC so it would have to be under MLSE ownership.

    I'm really curious if the CSA is making a similar overture to Montreal and Vancouver. It seems like they could live without teams in those cities if they can get Victorian and Quebec City or board, but the GTA seems to be a must-have. I hear the CPL wants to play in stadiums that hold around 10,000 spectators. I think that's really ambitious at first. BMO field would be too big. You could probably put a team in at York University's new stadium, but I think that would be too close to TFC II. It would be better if they put a team out in Scarborough or Oshawa to spread out the footprint of the team, but there are no stadiums in that area that could hold that amount of people.

    The league should sell itself as Division 1 in Canada, but act as a development league for mostly Canadian talent with some Central American influence. If I were setting the rules for the CPL, I would put a salary cap of $1.2-1.5 million with teams allowed to take 1 designated player where only $150,000 of his salary counts against the cap. Teams would consist of 24-26 players with the first 20 players being counted under the cap. Team composition would have a maximum of 8 international players (including Americans as internationals) with the rest being Canadians. I would also make it a rule that at least two of the starters must be Canadian U-23s. In an 8 team league, that would mean there would be a minimum 24 canadian players playing each week, with 16 of them being U-23s. I think there is enough quality now that you could find 24 canadians to start and still manage to play decent-looking football. I would encourage getting players from Honduras, Costa Rica, Haiti, Panama, Guatemala and other CA and Carribean countries by enticing them with better salaries than they could get playing in their own country to raise the initial quality of the game.

    But I still think the only way this survives is to have a stable 8-10 year TV contract shared between TSN and Sportsnet that will offset low attendence for the first 5 years until the league becomes entrenched in the Canadian consciousness and start coming to the stadiums. It also needs to have a sponsorship with a Canadian Air Carrier to subsidize transportation costs, as that is what will kill teams, especially with a country the size of Canada.
    Excellent post!

    Just curious to hear your thoughts, do you think another GTA team would be too much given Hamilton will be in?

  5. #35
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    The CFL without a Toronto team isnt a true Canadian league hence they keep the team afloat.

    the CPL needs a Toronto team in the same manner, no matter how small. It then needs the CPL champ to beat TFC in the Canada cup.

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    I don't care for another GTA team (TFC fills that role quite well) but would be super psyched for teams in smaller markets like Kitchener, London, Oshawa and Barrie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    Kurt

    what do you think of a proper futsal league once the CPL is in place.
    We really need to develop Cdn play on the ball, and we have the gym;s already set up to do it.
    Then ask ronaldinho to play a season lol
    That's actually a great idea!

  8. #38
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    I keep seeing a lot of ideas surround already established teams "jumping ship" from the established leagues they are already a part of.

    What incentive is there for these teams to jump into a league that has zero credibility, run by an association, the CSA, which has even less credibility than that!!!

    I don't get the logic.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    ... It also needs to have a sponsorship with a Canadian Air Carrier to subsidize transportation costs, as that is what will kill teams, especially with a country the size of Canada.
    Wait a second...where did the current MLSE head honcho work again? Wasn't it for that airline with the name on a certain arena in town?

    Yeah, if I was Victor M I'd be maximising all the synergies I possibly could.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    ...

    What incentive is there for these teams to jump into a league that has zero credibility, run by an association, the CSA, which has even less credibility than that!!!

    I don't get the logic.
    The CSA at the national level of getting a CPL going prior to Victor M is not the same as the CSA now.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I keep seeing a lot of ideas surround already established teams "jumping ship" from the established leagues they are already a part of.

    What incentive is there for these teams to jump into a league that has zero credibility, run by an association, the CSA, which has even less credibility than that!!!

    I don't get the logic.
    Because NASL is a sinking ship. It's trying hard to be an alt Div 1 team in NA, but it's got so many issues that it's unstable.

    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
    ."
    -Fort York Redcoat, on the state of TFC

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    But we're talking about an extreme circumstance here.
    Listen, I'm just being honest when I say the CPL will be less publicized than the Wolfpack/Rock in Toronto.
    It's going to be a developmental league.
    I'm sully supportive of it. But am kind of perplexed by the romantic view some people have.
    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    Agree on the Cup part.
    But I think just because there isn't a "TFC B" in the league won't mean Canadians won't view the league for what it will be ...
    exactly......look, the idea of a CPL is great for the development of Canadian players, but as far as perception goes, it will always be viewed as the "CFL" to the MLS' "NFL", because MLS will always have the bigger budget, and hence attract the bigger names.....if having a TFC II in the league helps develop players for TFC and Canada, that should be all that matters in the big picture, no?.....

    sorry to draw the comparison of the Football leagues, but its a good example.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
    I don't care for another GTA team (TFC fills that role quite well) but would be super psyched for teams in smaller markets like Kitchener, London, Oshawa and Barrie.
    i would go to Barrie games while im in cottage country

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC Tifoso View Post
    exactly......look, the idea of a CPL is great for the development of Canadian players, but as far as perception goes, it will always be viewed as the "CFL" to the MLS' "NFL", because MLS will always have the bigger budget, and hence attract the bigger names.....if having a TFC II in the league helps develop players for TFC and Canada, that should be all that matters in the big picture, no?.....

    sorry to draw the comparison of the Football leagues, but its a good example.....
    as long as CPL gets a cut of a player transfer from tfc B to TFC then cool, but otherwise whats the incentive for CPL to develop future TFCers.

    in theory, CPL teams can easily one day be better than some MLS teams. MLS has a its budget in its 3 DPs. a well coached and balanced team from the CPL wouldn't get wiped out. It shouldn't/wouldn't be like a real madrid beat down on some div 2 team

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    It's barely a league.
    And I don't think it's developmental as most players who leave MLS go to NASL. NASL players rarely come to MLS.
    They (NASL) are averaging about 4,500 a game attendance. That's about the median attendance in the Scottish Premier League (6 teams average more, 6 teams average less).

    Is the Scottish Premier League barely a league?

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    as long as CPL gets a cut of a player transfer from tfc B to TFC then cool, but otherwise whats the incentive for CPL to develop future TFCers.
    Why would TFC agree to this? That makes no sense to me that TFC would have to pay money to access their assets?

    How do the Leafs and marlies operate? or the Jays and Bisons?
    That's how I see a CPL league working.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    as long as CPL gets a cut of a player transfer from tfc B to TFC then cool, but otherwise whats the incentive for CPL to develop future TFCers.

    in theory, CPL teams can easily one day be better than some MLS teams. MLS has a its budget in its 3 DPs. a well coached and balanced team from the CPL wouldn't get wiped out. It shouldn't/wouldn't be like a real madrid beat down on some div 2 team
    how so?.....teams in small Canadian markets would not be able to compete with at least the top half of MLS (ie. the teams that spend).....

    Also, I don't see why TFC would have to pay a fee to get a player from a TFC II team playing in the CPL.....from another team within the league, sure......

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Why would TFC agree to this? That makes no sense to me that TFC would have to pay money to access their assets?

    How do the Leafs and marlies operate? or the Jays and Bisons?
    That's how I see a CPL league working.
    as it pertains to TFC, IMFC, and VWFC and their "minor teams"....yes it should work like traditional NA "farm teams"....but from any other team team in the league, the Canadian MLS teams should expect to pay a transfer if the situation ever comes up like that.....

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    I dont mean a transfer fee per say, but I guess they would be paying this fee already through league franchise fees.

    Im just saying the league cannot and should not exist just to promote players to TFC, VC, MTL.

    How will this be fair to teams that don't have player promotion. they will be at a disadvantage in a capped league, why would players want to play there?

    If Hamilton offers 50k, Toronto offers 50k. The player will most probably take Toronto hoping to make the senior team

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    Quote Originally Posted by nfitz View Post
    They (NASL) are averaging about 4,500 a game attendance. That's about the median attendance in the Scottish Premier League (6 teams average more, 6 teams average less).

    Is the Scottish Premier League barely a league?
    I'll be shocked if the NASL is still around in a decade. Maybe they'll sue MLS, much like the USFL attempted to sue the NFL.
    Last edited by KurtLarSUN; 09-20-2016 at 04:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    I dont mean a transfer fee per say, but I guess they would be paying this fee already through league franchise fees.

    Im just saying the league cannot and should not exist just to promote players to TFC, VC, MTL.

    How will this be fair to teams that don't have player promotion. they will be at a disadvantage in a capped league, why would players want to play there?

    If Hamilton offers 50k, Toronto offers 50k. The player will most probably take Toronto hoping to make the senior team
    Ya but why else would TFC want to be involved in this if not to have a place where their players can get time on the pitch? Why invest the money?

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    Last thing we need is MLSE big league-ing the CPL by decimating line ups in mid-season call up situations.

    TFC2 is about player development first and foremost and you can't have them competing in a serious manner against teams that are not subject to the parent club messing with the line up on a frequent basis.

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    This would be good for Canadian players.

    We are generally asking athletes to forego a free education and play professional for sums of money that are far from life changing with limited roster spots in the MLS set aside for our youth.

    How anyone thinks that the game can grow in Canada at the professional level under these circumstances is beyond me.

    This would be a step forward. Yes a CPL would be minor league. And no TFC wouldn't get out of MLS/SUM to play in it. So what?

    It would be an extra potential reason to give someone to stick with the game and not give it up. Might even help the MNT not be so ... um ... uncompetitive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    Last thing we need is MLSE big league-ing the CPL by decimating line ups in mid-season call up situations.

    TFC2 is about player development first and foremost and you can't have them competing in a serious manner against teams that are not subject to the parent club messing with the line up on a frequent basis.
    I'm told TFC isn't happy with TFC II's level at the moment. Expect the USL roster to get a year or two older in the coming years to better compete with USL sides in the States. Expect TFC III to be an under-20 team with signed developmental players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    as long as CPL gets a cut of a player transfer from tfc B to TFC then cool, but otherwise whats the incentive for CPL to develop future TFCers.

    in theory, CPL teams can easily one day be better than some MLS teams. MLS has a its budget in its 3 DPs. a well coached and balanced team from the CPL wouldn't get wiped out. It shouldn't/wouldn't be like a real madrid beat down on some div 2 team
    The CPL will be at the quality of USL at the best, but probably worst as it's players will come mainly from league 1 Ontario and other amateur leagues.
    I wonder where people are thinking where these great Canadian players who are too good for MLS are going to come from.

    The Ottawa Fury are burning through money at the NASL level and want to move to the USL because of cheaper travel and cheaper players. A Canadian league coast to coast will have a travel cost higher than the USL though as travel cost in Canada are higher than in the U.S.
    Anyone who thinks the CPL will last more than a couple of years is disillusion IMHO
    Last edited by troy1982; 09-20-2016 at 05:33 PM.

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    I don't care if they're USL level, i want to see a national league which has several Ontario teams outside the GTA and develops soccer culture and CanMNT players. I would support all the Southern and Central Ontario teams!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
    I don't care if they're USL level, i want to see a national league which has several Ontario teams outside the GTA and develops soccer culture and CanMNT players. I would support all the Southern and Central Ontario teams!
    Then you should go see league 1 Ontario games as that will be the quality of the CPL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by troy1982 View Post
    Then you should go see league 1 Ontario games as that will be the quality of the CPL.
    I don't mind that quality of play but L1 has poor branding for their franchises, I'd prefer slightly more developed franchises with slightly bigger support. Half the fun (outside the game itself) is socializing at bars with fans and making new friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    But we're talking about an extreme circumstance here.
    Listen, I'm just being honest when I say the CPL will be less publicized than the Wolfpack/Rock in Toronto.
    It's going to be a developmental league.
    I'm sully supportive of it. But am kind of perplexed by the romantic view some people have.
    Well, what's being talked about right now is:
    - a league with 6-8 teams to start
    - multi-millionaire owners
    - a potential billionaire owner in Toronto
    - $1.5-2 million dollar salary cap
    - a national TV deal
    - a franchise model with revenue sharing


    With that kind of cap it would be competitive with the NASL in terms of salary if not slightly better, there are a lot of players around the world that would love to play for that kind of wage, and a lot of Canadian's that are currently in Europe that would be better off coming back. No one is expecting the league to be great right off the bat, but money talks, in the long run it could work. It wouldn't be able to compete with MLS, but I don't think that's what people expect. It has to be the what the Championship is to the EPL, a good level our national team players can compete at.

    I don't think put a reserve team in the league is appropriate. The MLS teams can loan some of the academy kids so they gain experience, but that's the extent of I think the MLS teams should have with the league.
    Last edited by DSouzaZ; 09-20-2016 at 08:45 PM.

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    Have not had a chance to read the entire thread, so if this has already been mentioned I apologize. If this league gets off the ground, there should be no argument that these teams should be allowed to compete for the Voyageurs Cup from the get go. It would be good for the league and the cup competition as well.

 

 

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