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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Two GTA based teams? That will be amazing!

    Mississauga makes sense, but Vaughan?

    Well there is the OSC...

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    I like the idea of a Canadian league but in my opinion it shouldn't be called the top Canadian league without the best Canadian teams. If there is a really successful CPL team, they might opt to become an MLS expansion team down the road anyway.

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    No more Canadian teams will join MLS, that's almost as certain as death and taxes.

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    I just found out that former TFC player Jim Brennan is trying to bring CPL team to Vaughan/York Region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonc View Post
    No more Canadian teams will join MLS, that's almost as certain as death and taxes.
    2 years ago, no one would have thought MLS would ever expand to Nashville and Cincinnati, but here we are.
    I have no doubt that if a team in Calgary, Edmonton and especially Ottawa became a hit like Cincinnati and was owned by one or several billionaires that they could push them-self into the Expansion pool especially when MLS goes beyond 30 teams.

  6. #186
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    I don't think any of Edmonton, Calgary or Ottawa would be a consideration for MLS. There are enough markets in the US that want a team, there's no need to come north. The Fury draw about 5-6000 a game. That number could go a bit higher but nowhere near what would be needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamboAl View Post
    I don't think any of Edmonton, Calgary or Ottawa would be a consideration for MLS. There are enough markets in the US that want a team, there's no need to come north. The Fury draw about 5-6000 a game. That number could go a bit higher but nowhere near what would be needed.
    The CSA is not likely to grant permission for any other Canadian teams to enter MLS. They want to promote and grow the CPL.

    I understand the CSA has to give permission each year for Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver to remain in MLS and that if they pull the plug we're screwed. Is there any truth to this? I think there would be a law suit or two if this happened.

  8. #188
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    With Edmonton out of the NASL, I would think they would be ready to join the CPL next year when it happens.
    Road Games:
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  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    The CSA is not likely to grant permission for any other Canadian teams to enter MLS. They want to promote and grow the CPL.

    I understand the CSA has to give permission each year for Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver to remain in MLS and that if they pull the plug we're screwed. Is there any truth to this? I think there would be a law suit or two if this happened.
    I don't see how the CSA could justify not letting another team in MLS when 3 teams are already there, seems like grounds for a lawsuit to me.
    The key is the owner would have to be a billionaire and willing to invest in a new stadium

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    I just found out that former TFC player Jim Brennan is trying to bring CPL team to Vaughan/York Region.
    The initial news release sounded like there was already a club and that he was hired in a more formal capacity? But who knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    I read the salary for players is only going to be 40-60K. They will probably allow 1 or 2 players above that level, but I doubt TFCs roster (and future roster) will be impacted much.

    In the stands, it could have an effect. But I actually think this helps TFC promote themselves as the "big league" team and Toronto is a big league market.
    While players like Hamilton and Osorio earn quite a bit more, I think that salary range is still quite competitive for the bottom end/academy graduates/TFC II players. That along with significantly increased playing time and if the league can establish itself as a stepping stone for Europe, I do foresee TFC players getting pouched. Hamilton and Oso for example have already been heavily rumoured to be making the switch. I think this competition will be a good thing as it pushes TFC to rethink its domestic/player development strategy.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamehawk View Post
    I think this competition will be a good thing as it pushes TFC to rethink its domestic/player development strategy.
    Nevermind that, think about the business opportunities to sell/loan young players from the TFC Academy to the CPL teams just in Ontario alone. Whitecaps will have the west and the Impact will Montreal and all points east. If the CPL limits the number of internationals per squad to 10, then at least 1 Canadian will get minutes every game. I was hoping for a limit of 8 internationals, but that would be greedy for the level of play they're looking for.

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    They talk more about being Canadian then about the quality of the play. I would be very suprised if the CPL does not go for a quote of at least 10 Canadians in the 18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    The CSA is not likely to grant permission for any other Canadian teams to enter MLS. They want to promote and grow the CPL.

    I understand the CSA has to give permission each year for Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver to remain in MLS and that if they pull the plug we're screwed. Is there any truth to this? I think there would be a law suit or two if this happened.
    The CSA did grant a sanction for TFC to play in MLS and technically they can withdraw permission but the lawsuit and subsequent damages that MLSE/MLSPU would win would cripple the CSA.

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    imho.....the growth of the CPL will be cost containment ( travel esp ) and stadium revenue. That said, it makes no sense to put teams in OHL type markets when stadiums exist in major markets. I dont believe for a second that TFC 2 moving into Lamport is anything but a CPL block. So, Molson stadium in downtown montreal, Swangard in Vcr, Laval Univ. stadium in Quebec, are the targets for sure. Partnership ( explicit or implicit ) with CFL actually helps the CFL folks spread their costs ( think ticketing and stadium operations ) and potentially get stadiums built in places like Halifax.

    ultimately, if I am the USSF, i don't want MLS having teams in Canada. It makes no sense to funnel USSF cash cow money ( SUM ) to Canada. there will be a time coming where, IMHO, MLS will have no teams in Canada

  16. #196
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    York Region Football Club (YRFC) - @ York U..Lets go Jimmy B.

    Or

    York Football Club (YFC)

    YFC vs TFC..sign me up
    Last edited by tfcmanu; 01-11-2018 at 10:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachTory View Post
    imho.....the growth of the CPL will be cost containment ( travel esp ) and stadium revenue. That said, it makes no sense to put teams in OHL type markets when stadiums exist in major markets. I dont believe for a second that TFC 2 moving into Lamport is anything but a CPL block. So, Molson stadium in downtown montreal, Swangard in Vcr, Laval Univ. stadium in Quebec, are the targets for sure. Partnership ( explicit or implicit ) with CFL actually helps the CFL folks spread their costs ( think ticketing and stadium operations ) and potentially get stadiums built in places like Halifax.

    ultimately, if I am the USSF, i don't want MLS having teams in Canada. It makes no sense to funnel USSF cash cow money ( SUM ) to Canada. there will be a time coming where, IMHO, MLS will have no teams in Canada
    MLS will always have teams in Canada in the big 3 cities, the only way it doesn't if the Canadian cities in the MLS are loosing to much money in the MLS if attendance starts to drastically decline and the Canadian MLS cities try to make a go at it in the smaller budget new Canadian league if it is still around, that's the only way you will see no Canadian cities in the MLS, if you think a team like TFC if forced to play in the new Canadian league one day will still be pulling in crowds of close to 30 000 a game playing in a Canadian only league then I'm sorry to say my friend you are mistaken, TFC playing in a Canadian league would be lucky to draw what the Argos have been drawing at BMO Field the last few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachTory View Post
    ...ultimately, if I am the USSF, i don't want MLS having teams in Canada. It makes no sense to funnel USSF cash cow money ( SUM ) to Canada. there will be a time coming where, IMHO, MLS will have no teams in Canada
    Current USSF believes that the growth of MLS and the growth of USSF are in tandem. As such, the current preference is for MLS to grow revenues - Canadian teams help that.

    A couple of the current candidates for USSF president (the two male ex players) are actively posturing hostility to MLS - blowing up something for the sake of "well it works in Europe" in response to a loss in Trinidad. Thankfully, they are unlikely to win. The likely winner is either a reform from within candidate or a status quo candidate. Thus, I don't suspect USSF is going to want to drop the Canadian teams from MLS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Current USSF believes that the growth of MLS and the growth of USSF are in tandem. As such, the current preference is for MLS to grow revenues - Canadian teams help that.

    A couple of the current candidates for USSF president (the two male ex players) are actively posturing hostility to MLS - blowing up something for the sake of "well it works in Europe" in response to a loss in Trinidad. Thankfully, they are unlikely to win. The likely winner is either a reform from within candidate or a status quo candidate. Thus, I don't suspect USSF is going to want to drop the Canadian teams from MLS.
    Wynalda actually looks to have a good chance to win or at least is very competitive. He has the majority of the amateur vote and as expected, NASL and affiliated leagues are standing by him.

  20. #200
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    Should not have multiple GTA teams. I think the only way to be successful is to have teams in secondary markets spread throughout the country. 9 teams in the east and 9 in the west in intimate soccer-specific stadiums of 8,10, or 12 K. A TV deal and national airline sponsorship required. 16 home and away games within the division and a single game against other division teams for a 25 game schedule plus Canadian Championship qualification games. East - St. John's, Halifax, Moncton, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Oakville, London, Windsor. West- Thunder Bay, Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, Edmonton, Calgary, Kelowna, Victoria, Surrey.

  21. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoccMan2 View Post
    MLS will always have teams in Canada in the big 3 cities, the only way it doesn't if the Canadian cities in the MLS are loosing to much money in the MLS if attendance starts to drastically decline and the Canadian MLS cities try to make a go at it in the smaller budget new Canadian league if it is still around, that's the only way you will see no Canadian cities in the MLS, if you think a team like TFC if forced to play in the new Canadian league one day will still be pulling in crowds of close to 30 000 a game playing in a Canadian only league then I'm sorry to say my friend you are mistaken, TFC playing in a Canadian league would be lucky to draw what the Argos have been drawing at BMO Field the last few years.

    MLS teams are set up to lose money. The reason SUM and MLS are set up separately is to allow SUM and the USSF to split all TV revenue generated in the US by soccer. The USSF does this to subsidize the development of the pro league (MLS) on a measured and careful growth while maintaining cash for USSF efforts. TFC for $10M was a long shot at the time - now, with SUM valued at well north of $1B, it makes no sense for USSF to continue to send TV revenue from USMNT, Mexican NT games and MLS contracts to Canadian SUM partners. Understand that when a new operator/franchise buys in ( example Nashville ), they are buying both a part of SUM and part of MLS.

    That USSF would want to stop sending $ to Canada is self evident. That the decision would hurt teams like TFC would be a good thing in the minds of USSF trying to protect their domestic programs. So i agree with you that TFC in a Canadian only league would be bad for TFC competitively and revenue wise. The status quo remains as long as the 3 Canadian teams, on a fully net basis contribute positive cash to MLS/USSF. And if THAT is true, why would the CSA continue to support a cash drain out of Canada?

    so, if the Canadian teams don't generate an above average cash contribution to MLS/SUM, the USSF will push them out. And if the reverse true, the CSA will pull them out.

    just my humble opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachTory View Post
    MLS teams are set up to lose money. The reason SUM and MLS are set up separately is to allow SUM and the USSF to split all TV revenue generated in the US by soccer. The USSF does this to subsidize the development of the pro league (MLS) on a measured and careful growth while maintaining cash for USSF efforts. TFC for $10M was a long shot at the time - now, with SUM valued at well north of $1B, it makes no sense for USSF to continue to send TV revenue from USMNT, Mexican NT games and MLS contracts to Canadian SUM partners. Understand that when a new operator/franchise buys in ( example Nashville ), they are buying both a part of SUM and part of MLS.

    That USSF would want to stop sending $ to Canada is self evident. That the decision would hurt teams like TFC would be a good thing in the minds of USSF trying to protect their domestic programs. So i agree with you that TFC in a Canadian only league would be bad for TFC competitively and revenue wise. The status quo remains as long as the 3 Canadian teams, on a fully net basis contribute positive cash to MLS/USSF. And if THAT is true, why would the CSA continue to support a cash drain out of Canada?

    so, if the Canadian teams don't generate an above average cash contribution to MLS/SUM, the USSF will push them out. And if the reverse true, the CSA will pull them out.

    just my humble opinion.
    The CSA or USSF can not kick TFC or any other Cdn team out of MLS. The owners of the league are exactly that - they own the league. Forcing MLSE/TFC out dissolves the league. They can be bought out but the amount of money that would take is in the billion dollar range and that's just for TFC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza_55 View Post
    The CSA or USSF can not kick TFC or any other Cdn team out of MLS. The owners of the league are exactly that - they own the league. Forcing MLSE/TFC out dissolves the league. They can be bought out but the amount of money that would take is in the billion dollar range and that's just for TFC.
    Of course they can. CSA merely revokes the exemption for a Canadian team playing in a US league. This already happened a couple years ago with US-PDL teams in Canada.

    The money exchange you refer to is simply the compensation aspect of the regulatory body decision. A ballpark price for an unwilling seller ( MLSE ) being compelled to relinquish their piece of MLS and their piece of SUM would have to more than the reputed $150M US Nashville just paid to buy those same assets but TFC's MLS share, their player contracts and their SUM ownership couldn't be much more since the buyer isnt going to get the stadium lease, the training centre and the local goodwill ( cuz the new owner would be relocating into the US). Since this would be a 3 team deal, it gets expensive ( if league buys back the share assets ) or tricky ( quick, find 3 new ownership groups with stadiums ready to move ).

    I would imagine MLSE would prefer to relocate their owner/operator rights into a new US location and continue with MLS with the simpler USSF only sanctioning.

    All this is very hypothetical of course. Very. But - the CSA want the CPL to exist and succeed. MLS can either try to block/stunt the CPL or not. Scooping up Lamport Stadium to ensure CPL can't put a team in there is not the first move an indifferent player.

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    Until Rogers and Bell sell off MLSE, the CSA is doing nothing.

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    Believe it or not, but I could see Vancouver and Montreal leaving MLS since they're small market teams who can't spend like TFC to keep up with the pace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Believe it or not, but I could see Vancouver and Montreal leaving MLS since they're small market teams who can't spend like TFC to keep up with the pace.
    except MLS is designed that you don't have to spend a fuckton of money to keep up.

    And Saputo family is worth 10 billion. Vancouver ownership has a net worth of about 2 billion. Yes, all of them have other business concerns, but it's not like they can't invest in their MLS teams if they want to.

    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
    ."
    -Fort York Redcoat, on the state of TFC

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    But I think Joey likes to be big cheese. He isn't that in MLS, but he could be *the* big cheese in CPL.

  28. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    except MLS is designed that you don't have to spend a fuckton of money to keep up.

    And Saputo family is worth 10 billion. Vancouver ownership has a net worth of about 2 billion. Yes, all of them have other business concerns, but it's not like they can't invest in their MLS teams if they want to.
    Not really since you're starting to see divide between spenders and not so big spending teams.

    Vancouver and Montreal might have rich owners, but that doesn't mean they're willing to spend money.

    We all know Montreal is having problems selling tickets while Vancouver is a bad season away losing their SSH base.

    Given high demand for MLS teams in the states, I wouldn't be surprised if one of CDN MLS clubs think of selling their team and join CPL like in a decade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    But I think Joey likes to be big cheese. He isn't that in MLS, but he could be *the* big cheese in CPL.
    That is also another reason why CDN owners would want to join CPL. They will have more weight to push the league and CSA around.

    Plus not worrying about US dollar is key for these owners as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Not really since you're starting to see divide between spenders and not so big spending teams.

    Vancouver and Montreal might have rich owners, but that doesn't mean they're willing to spend money.

    We all know Montreal is having problems selling tickets while Vancouver is a bad season away losing their SSH base.

    Given high demand for MLS teams in the states, I wouldn't be surprised if one of CDN MLS clubs think of selling their team and join CPL like in a decade.
    in 10-15 years MLS will have *bridged the gap* between MLS and the NHL in terms of level of interest south of the border. It'll be closer to looking and acting like the behemoths other NA sports leagues act like. It will be highly lucrative for those, the Vancouvers and the Impacts, who got in early. There's absolutely no way they walk away from that investment to play in a new league with no secure future.


    *not that it will be the best league in the world, but it'll certainly be on its way there. If the progress we've seen over the last 20 years is linear it means very, very good things for where this league will be at talent wise over the next 10-15-20 years. You'll see the cheaper owners coughing up more and more money as the league grows and revenue increases.

 

 

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