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    Default MLSE (TFC) Involvement in CPL?

    From Kurt's article in Sun:

    NEW CANADIAN LEAGUE

    The Canadian Soccer Association (CSA) remains bullish about forming a new Canadian league to foster talent for Canada’s men’s national team.

    While details remain few and far between, it’s believed the CSA is targeting 2018 as its launch date.

    In the meantime, TFC president Bill Manning and MLSE chairman Larry Tanenbaum will meet with CSA officials, including president Victor Montagliani, later this month to discuss the proposed league.

    Toronto’s top brass told the Sun earlier this year they were largely in the dark as to how the so-called “Canadian Premier League” might impact Major League Soccer. But it appears they’re about to find out. “Opportunities for more Canadian players is something Toronto FC wants to support,” Manning told the Toronto Sun last week. “We just have to figure out how we can be involved.

    “Is it the right model? Is it some kind of hybrid with the USL? We want to have those conversations and be supportive of it. If the CPL is going to go forward, we want to be involved.”

    Additional CPL teams in Toronto and Hamilton have been rumoured. Proposed salary caps have been bandied. Yet, the CSA hasn’t provided much — if any — information.

    “I don’t want to create confusion in the market place,” Manning said. “I told Victor we want to be involved and want to be at the table when this league or division comes about.”

    Manning later added: “It’s not a competitor to MLS.”

    The question, though, is what the CSA wants it to be.

    Having MLS affiliation would undoubtedly give the CPL a minor-league feel.

    “If we can provide for our young players coming up and (TFC) can put a team in that league, we’re interested,” Manning added


    http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/19...es-away-tfcs-x

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    This seems like a good thing to me. The whole Canadian inferiority thing is getting really tiring, there is nothing wrong with the CPL being akin to the USL when it starts out. In fact, I think that would be a great start. Call it Div1 still, but give it time to develop. The possibility of a lot of home town heroes will be enough of a draw if it's marketed right. Dropping the comparisons to other leagues would go along way to creating a positive buzz.
    Plus being from Niagara, it would bring me great joy to watch a Hamilton team routinely beat a Toronto team! LOL

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    I wonder if allowing a TFC II into the league would make it seem like a feeder/minor league. I think they are more likely to put a team in a suburb like Vaughan or Mississuaga than allowing a TFC II type team into the league.

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    What would happen if the CSA said now that Canada has its own league we feel it's only appropriate that all pro teams in this country play in it. Truth be told if they really wanted too they could do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    What would happen if the CSA said now that Canada has its own league we feel it's only appropriate that all pro teams in this country play in it. Truth be told if they really wanted too they could do it.
    If Wales has been unable to keep Cardiff and Swansea - and even Newport from being in the Football League, I'm not sure CSA is going to be able to realistically pull the Canadian teams from MLS.

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    cant allow it to be a reserve team where players come and go to the first team disrupting the CPLs team
    It will be silly to have TFCs team win the CPL and not go on to the Canadian champions league

    TFC2 so far isnt a great success if looked upon independently

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    I'm sure from a CSA point of view any team fielded by TFC would have to be completely independent, ie. players could not be transferred to other TFC teams without it being considered a real transaction like any other trade or acquisition. It would be suicide to try to fight it out with MLS right now, suicide.

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    What's the harm of allowing TFC II or TFC III to compete in this league?
    In my opinion, "optics" isn't a good enough excuse.
    MLSE has invested more in the Canadian player than any other entity in history. And now you're going to exclude them?
    I just don't get that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    What's the harm of allowing TFC II or TFC III to compete in this league?
    In my opinion, "optics" isn't a good enough excuse.
    MLSE has invested more in the Canadian player than any other entity in history. And now you're going to exclude them?
    I just don't get that.
    I don't think people have said exclude MLSE. Just that they don't want a reserve squad in the league. That won't bring in the punters.
    Last edited by nfitz; 09-20-2016 at 02:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    What's the harm of allowing TFC II or TFC III to compete in this league?
    In my opinion, "optics" isn't a good enough excuse.
    MLSE has invested more in the Canadian player than any other entity in history. And now you're going to exclude them?
    I just don't get that.
    I guess it would be like Chelsea being allowed to field their second team in the Scottish league. Optics do play a role, especially when trying to market/sell the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    I guess it would be like Chelsea being allowed to field their second team in the Scottish league. Optics do play a role, especially when trying to market/sell the league.
    But we're talking about an extreme circumstance here.
    Listen, I'm just being honest when I say the CPL will be less publicized than the Wolfpack/Rock in Toronto.
    It's going to be a developmental league.
    I'm sully supportive of it. But am kind of perplexed by the romantic view some people have.

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    Is the NASL a developmental league?

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    I don't the CSA would invest this amount of time and money if it wasn't a D1 league, hence no reserve teams. TFC will probably ask about affiliations and loan opportunities.

    I foresee it starting similar to TFC before the Canadian quota was eased. That'll grab players from wherever they can. Canadian journeyman, supplemental draft picks, previous USL/NASL players and lots from L1O/other development leagues. Players like Matt Stinson, Dylan Carriero, Jonathan Lao will likely get contracts. I also expect good players/starters will be internationals due to the dilution of talent.
    Last edited by PopePouri; 09-20-2016 at 10:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nfitz View Post
    Is the NASL a developmental league?
    It's barely a league.
    And I don't think it's developmental as most players who leave MLS go to NASL. NASL players rarely come to MLS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    But we're talking about an extreme circumstance here.
    Listen, I'm just being honest when I say the CPL will be less publicized than the Wolfpack/Rock in Toronto.
    It's going to be a developmental league.
    I'm sully supportive of it. But am kind of perplexed by the romantic view some people have.
    I agree that as long as the big 3 are in the MLS, this league will be viewed as 2nd tier. It would be in the CPL's best interest to include MLSE because they have a lot of money and power, but the new franchise would have to be a separate entity not tied to TFC directly. But from MLSE's standpoint, why would they operate another team that competes with TFC? MLSE will be out if they can't field one of their reserve teams. But from everything I've read, the CPL isn't interested in fielding feeder teams.

    What eventually happens is I think the CPL finds another owner, the team is put in a suburb of Toronto and they try to attract 5-6K people initially. Which is what they will probably do with the Van/Mon markets as well.


    9 team league, like the CFL:

    Toronto Suburb
    Montreal Suburb
    Vancouver Suburb
    Ottawa
    Regina
    Edmonton
    Calgary
    Hamilton
    Winnipeg
    Last edited by 105; 09-20-2016 at 10:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    What would happen if the CSA said now that Canada has its own league we feel it's only appropriate that all pro teams in this country play in it. Truth be told if they really wanted too they could do it.
    The CSA would be stupid to do so and I hope that all 3 Canadian MLS teams would be smart enough to tell them to go fuck themselves if they did try and pull that bullshit.

    The CSA is still the same bumbling bunch of idiots that have failed time and time again to do anything significant with soccer in this country. I don't see any change that tells me they have matured as a federation and TBH I see the fate of this CPL going the same path that every other league in this country has gone - in the shitter.

    if the CSA were wise, they would bring in some real soccer business muscle to build this league - people who have a track record of building and sustaining a league from nothing.

    CPL will never be bigger than MLS. It's a small league, equivalent to USL at best. The economy isn't there to sustain it.

    The interest isn't there to fill stadiums to 30K+ per game - TBH I doubt they will get 15K per game. 5-10K stadiums at best.
    I don't see major networks picking it up, only cable access TV contracts - so essentially nothing in terms of TV revenue.

    Keeping all that in mind - it only works if it's a league where teams can be bussed around to games - the league won't be able to fly teams all over the country and house them in hotels. There is just no money for that shit.

    The CSA will need to be very fucking creative to pull this off - and I reiterate, they have done nothing in the past 40, 50, 60 years to prove they are capable pulling this off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    It's barely a league.
    And I don't think it's developmental as most players who leave MLS go to NASL. NASL players rarely come to MLS.
    This is North America. The games structure is still young. That's what these meetings are about. We have the pleasure of seeing these changes happen to see what sticks, what will grow. If the present American pyramid isn't enough here (and it's not) then of course we'll see different partnerships occur between leagues as they have in only the last 5-10 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    The CSA will need to be very fucking creative to pull this off - and I reiterate, they have done nothing in the past 40, 50, 60 years to prove they are capable pulling this off.
    We have a Canadian running CONCACAF. Never is an absolute I won't use for as long as his term.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    This seems like a good thing to me. The whole Canadian inferiority thing is getting really tiring, there is nothing wrong with the CPL being akin to the USL when it starts out. In fact, I think that would be a great start. Call it Div1 still, but give it time to develop. The possibility of a lot of home town heroes will be enough of a draw if it's marketed right. Dropping the comparisons to other leagues would go along way to creating a positive buzz.
    Plus being from Niagara, it would bring me great joy to watch a Hamilton team routinely beat a Toronto team! LOL
    See this fascinates me.

    We're discussing this like Toronto can add teams to almost every league here. TFC(and the other 2 Canadian teams) I-III.

    The NA model is farm teams in smaller cities. With Kurts mention of NASL I'd site that just because Ottawa trades went one way down the "pyramid" I don't see why the partnership couldn't change over time. It only takes some consistency for stability and acceptance.

    Wherever they land on the relationship of PCL to the rest of the game in the country, I'm for seeing what happens. Trying to predict the future state of the game is fools play.

    Remember how people were happy with TFC Accies joining the CSL? I know I hoped for more from it. Like straightening out the league, for one.
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    I don't like the idea of having TFC farm team in the new CPL. We need to promote a DIV 1 league that is not viewed as a feeder league. "Optics" is definitely a thing. We need these clubs to play in the Voyageurs Cup.



    Imagine a TFC roadie to Hamilton on the train? Would be crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soccer Mum View Post
    I don't like the idea of having TFC farm team in the new CPL. We need to promote a DIV 1 league that is not viewed as a feeder league. "Optics" is definitely a thing. We need these clubs to play in the Voyageurs Cup.



    Imagine a TFC roadie to Hamilton on the train? Would be crazy.
    Agree on the Cup part.
    But I think just because there isn't a "TFC B" in the league won't mean Canadians won't view the league for what it will be ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post

    The interest isn't there to fill stadiums to 30K+ per game - TBH I doubt they will get 15K per game. 5-10K stadiums at best.
    I don't see major networks picking it up, only cable access TV contracts - so essentially nothing in terms of TV revenue.
    Any CPL would be at best a CFL to the NFL. Realistically, it won't even be that because there won't be the history, people will perceive it as very minor league. It doesn't matter if you sanction it as D1 if there isn't the money or the players.

    The Toronto Lynx topped out at 2,744 spectators per game in 1999. Bruno Hartrell and his wife lost a lot of money pursuing their passion.

    Given that TFC and TFC II will be the competition, I doubt that an unaffiliated team could even draw 3k, so a 5k stadium would be generous.

    The owner had better be prepared to lose a lot of money.

    More realistic would be to fold the Canadian NASL teams into the CPL. Add a few new teams from Hamilton and such. Either ignore Toronto, or have a TFC-sponsored team far away from Toronto (like the Marlies were to the Leafs when they were in St. John's Newfoundland).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    We have a Canadian running CONCACAF. Never is an absolute I won't use for as long as his term.
    A Canadian running CONCACAF means nothing IMO. Still doesn't bring people to small town games, or gets them watching games on TV or gets big name sponsorships to support the league.

    IMO all this means is that we could see some seedy money come into the league to help sustain it for a year or two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    A Canadian running CONCACAF means nothing IMO. Still doesn't bring people to small town games, or gets them watching games on TV or gets big name sponsorships to support the league.

    IMO all this means is that we could see some seedy money come into the league to help sustain it for a year or two.
    It means, simply put, that change will be easier in this country.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    I guess it would be like Chelsea being allowed to field their second team in the Scottish league. Optics do play a role, especially when trying to market/sell the league.
    benfica and such field reserves in Div and I find it pretty silly. There's no incentive to win, just develop

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    benfica and such field reserves in Div and I find it pretty silly. There's no incentive to win, just develop
    France. Multiple teams do it.

    Meh.

    Ask most of the rest of the world what they think of NA farm teams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    What would happen if the CSA said now that Canada has its own league we feel it's only appropriate that all pro teams in this country play in it. Truth be told if they really wanted too they could do it.
    They couldn't do it without losing significant investment in the Canadian game and a lot of pull within CONCACAF. That and the investments by the 3 Canadian ownership groups and the owners of the stadiums would be significantly undercut - lawsuit heaven.


    Its not happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    I agree that as long as the big 3 are in the MLS, this league will be viewed as 2nd tier. It would be in the CPL's best interest to include MLSE because they have a lot of money and power, but the new franchise would have to be a separate entity not tied to TFC directly. But from MLSE's standpoint, why would they operate another team that competes with TFC? MLSE will be out if they can't field one of their reserve teams. But from everything I've read, the CPL isn't interested in fielding feeder teams.

    What eventually happens is I think the CPL finds another owner, the team is put in a suburb of Toronto and they try to attract 5-6K people initially. Which is what they will probably do with the Van/Mon markets as well.


    9 team league, like the CFL:

    Toronto Suburb
    Montreal Suburb
    Vancouver Suburb
    Ottawa
    Regina
    Edmonton
    Calgary
    Hamilton
    Winnipeg
    for Toronto id put it right at UofT if they can improve the seating, lots of visibility. make it cheap and have food trucks feed the hipsters with kids

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    for Toronto id put it right at UofT if they can improve the seating, lots of visibility. make it cheap and have food trucks feed the hipsters with kids
    That stadium is nice. How would you improve it?
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    Kurt

    what do you think of a proper futsal league once the CPL is in place.
    We really need to develop Cdn play on the ball, and we have the gym;s already set up to do it.
    Then ask ronaldinho to play a season lol

 

 

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