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  1. #61
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    This years first rounder is going to the Rapids for Irwin IIRC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    This years first rounder is going to the Rapids for Irwin IIRC
    That pick was conditional on something that was never disclosed.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  3. #63
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    Those conditions are generally tied to appearances or playoff success so I highly doubt the conditions weren't met.

    (or it's if he signs a deal with TFC similar to the Jackson deal)

  4. #64
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    ^Yeah that is the right thing to assume

    So thinking about that Jackson scenario, if that's what is going on, Irwin might get exposed here.
    Last edited by ensco; 12-05-2016 at 09:52 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Only Minn would want Irwin - Atlanta is picking up Sean Johnson (who will probably get Jack McInerney from Colorado and thus upgrade). And I'm not sure Irwin wants to work for Adrian Heath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Only Minn would want Irwin - Atlanta is picking up Sean Johnson (who will probably get Jack McInerney from Colorado and thus upgrade). And I'm not sure Irwin wants to work for Adrian Heath.
    Someone would take him to flip him.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I suppose there's a possibility Irwin gets exposed, but I find it hard to believe. I feel like we'd be making the same mistake as we made with Frei - cheap backup comes in and does okay and we start wondering if we really need the starter. I would rather stick with Irwin.

  8. #68
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    Irwin is on such a team friendly contract we have to protect him. Dude makes like 100 grand per season. Solid mls keeper, on a great contract for his position. If he went and bono faltered we would not find a keeper of Irwin's class at his price

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    I am not looking to move Irwin. At all. But what if he wants a lot more than $100K and can get it elsewhere?

    That pick, if signing him costs us that, is an issue. He by definition would cost us more to sign him than he costs anyone else (if that is how the conditional deal works).

    Not looking to be "right", just trying to think like Bez.

    Championship teams lose guys because everyone needs to get paid.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gringo Starr View Post
    Irwin is on such a team friendly contract we have to protect him. Dude makes like 100 grand per season. Solid mls keeper, on a great contract for his position. If he went and bono faltered we would not find a keeper of Irwin's class at his price
    IIRC from around the time of the trade. This year was his last year on his current deal. So one way or another, he's getting a raise this offseason.

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    I thought Irwin is signed through 2017? no?

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    Pretty sure Matt Doyle said he was going into the last year of his deal when the trade went down.

    EDIT:FAO: Ensco - Going back looking for the contract details, i found this from Neil Davidson.

    A source said the 2017 pick is conditional on Irwin's appearances and Toronto's playoff progress.
    Last edited by Areathrasher; 12-06-2016 at 11:03 AM.

  13. #73
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    I tried looking for contract terms for Irwin but came up empty

    in terms of the draft pick though, of all the years to be giving up a first round selection this is it. After we win on Saturday the rapids will be getting the last pick in the first round and we still have the 5 th pick in the second round to grab a prospect

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    To protect or not protect Irwin is on TFC's view on Alex Bono. If they are confident that Bono can do the same job with less money then leaving Irwin open should be alright.

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    How many players do we have to leave exposed?

    I'd put some Canadians on that list. You'd have to think that ATL/Min would't want to waste their international spot on Chapman/Morgan/Mannella.

    Also Irwin. Seems like decent GK's are a dime a dozen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Only Minn would want Irwin - Atlanta is picking up Sean Johnson (who will probably get Jack McInerney from Colorado and thus upgrade). And I'm not sure Irwin wants to work for Adrian Heath.
    Sean Johnson is off to NYCFC. Looks like Atlanta are in for Brad Guzan, so situation is still the same.

    I think the team protected lists should be announced at 12 today?

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    I say protected:

    Giovinco
    Altidore
    Bradley
    Moore
    Zavaletta
    Morrow
    Osorio
    Cooper
    Delgado
    Beitashour
    Irwin

    Only Haglund left off the list as one of the regular starters.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennon View Post
    How many players do we have to leave exposed?

    I'd put some Canadians on that list. You'd have to think that ATL/Min would't want to waste their international spot on Chapman/Morgan/Mannella.

    Also Irwin. Seems like decent GK's are a dime a dozen.
    Mannella now counts as a domestic league-wide because he started at the academy before he was 16. One of only nine Canadians who count as domestics in the US after the new Canadian Garber-age rule change. Still doubtful that Minnesota or Atlanta would pick him up, but in a later round for "domestic" depth... maybe. He's not protected in the way you suggest though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffian View Post
    I say protected:

    Giovinco
    Altidore
    Bradley
    Moore
    Zavaletta
    Morrow
    Osorio
    Cooper
    Delgado
    Beitashour
    Irwin

    Only Haglund left off the list as one of the regular starters.
    They will not expose Hagglund. Young, cheap, effective domestics are incredibly valuable. I would bet my house that he won't be exposed.

    This turns on whether we can sign Cooper.

    If TFC can sign Cooper, it's 50/50 whether they protect Endoh or Beitashour (frankly, Beitashour may not be taken at his salary anyway, I could see the case that he should be exposed in any scenario).

    There is a small chance that Irwin is exposed, if we don't think we can sign him at the right price.
    Last edited by ensco; 12-12-2016 at 10:42 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by shorty View Post
    Mannella now counts as a domestic league-wide because he started at the academy before he was 16. One of only nine Canadians who count as domestics in the US after the new Canadian Garber-age rule change. Still doubtful that Minnesota or Atlanta would pick him up, but in a later round for "domestic" depth... maybe. He's not protected in the way you suggest though.
    Each team can only lose up to 1 player in the draft.

    See link

    Maximum Player Loss: Once one (1) player has been claimed from a Club’s non-protected roster, that Club is eliminated from the Expansion Draft and may not lose any further players
    Rounds
    • There will be five (5) rounds.
    Last edited by wopchop; 12-12-2016 at 11:43 AM.

  21. #81
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    Irwin, Beita and Ricketts left unprotected

    http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/conten...tected-players

  22. #82
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    Here's the list:

    Altidore, Jozy
    Bradley, Michael
    Cooper, Armando
    Delgado, Marco
    Endo, Tsubasa
    Giovinco, Sebastian
    Hagglund, Nick
    Moor, Drew
    Morrow, Justin
    Osorio, Jonathan
    Zavaleta, Eriq

  23. #83
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    Dont think anyone expected Endoh on that list...
    Play-by-Play Commentator for League 1 Ontario.
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    Road Trips: LA Galaxy, FC Cincinnati, Montreal (x2), Columbus (x3), NYCFC, NY Red Bulls, DC United, Atlanta, and Seattle!

  24. #84
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    Before anyone starts wondering, we were required to protect 3 international players according to the rules. We had 5 international players on the roster (Giovinco, Cooper, Cheyrou, Simonin, Endoh) and therefore had to protect 3 of them. It was going to be between Cheyrou and Endoh, and management decided to protect Endoh. A lot of people missed this particular caveat, even Waking The Red's expansion prediction only had 2 international players protected for us, which wouldn't have been possible.

    Our unprotected players: Irwin, Beitashour, Johnson, Bloom, Ricketts, Williams, Cheyrou, Lovitz, Babouli, Simonin, Roberts

    Keep in mind we can only lose 1 player. If I had to guess right now, Williams, Lovitz, Cheyrou, Babouli, Simonin, Roberts are safe. Cheyrou is too old versus other options for either expansion team to consider him, plus there's a risk he just decides to retire if selected. The others aren't valuable enough. Johnson is a free agent and expensive, if he is selected he can just refuse to sign a contract with Atlanta/Minnesota then head to free agency, so I doubt he's selected. Therefore I think we are going to lose one of Irwin, Beitashour, Bloom or Ricketts.

    Minnesota doesn't have a keeper, they might grab Irwin. If either Atlanta or Minnesota needs a RB, they could take Beitashour if they have the cap space, or Bloom for a cheaper option. Ricketts is a bit safer than the others because he would take up an international slot, but he's not totally out of the woods. I'm not sure who we'll lose, it's going to be depend on what the teams need and who else is available.
    Last edited by notthesun; 12-12-2016 at 02:11 PM.

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    Our unprotected players: Irwin, Beitashour, Johnson, Bloom, Ricketts, Williams, Cheyrou, Lovitz, and maybe Babouli, I'm unclear on his status.
    I believe that Babouli is exempt under the Homegrown Player Status.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flambe View Post
    Didn't MLS change the rules so that Canadians are no longer considered international?
    No, that only applies to players signing homegrown contracts out of approved Canadian academies. Senior Canadian players like Ricketts, Johnson, Osorio, etc. still count as internationals for U.S. clubs.

  27. #87
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    Full list of player status for the expansion draft: http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/conten...tected-players

    I don't know why but Roberts and Babouli are both available despite being Homegrowns... don't get it but it won't matter, they won't be selected anyways.

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    I bet we lose Ricketts and he is flipped to Vancouver.

    This is going to suck.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I bet we lose Ricketts and he is flipped to Vancouver.


    This is going to suck.
    That would be terrible, he's provided us so much energy off the bench

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    Our likely players to be selected, in my opinion: Irwin, Beitashour, Bloom, Ricketts, Williams.

    This draft is an opportunity for Atlanta and Minnesota to build depth. You have to assume they are going to look for capable players that are cheap and domestic, as much as possible. Browsing the list of available players, here's the "competition" for each of our guys that I can see...

    GK (Irwin):
    Steve Clark
    Chris Seitz
    Bobby Shuttleworth
    Jeff Attinella

    These are all pretty comparable keepers. Clark is significantly more expensive than Irwin, Seitz and Shuttleworth are a bit more, Attinella a bit less. Atlanta is in for Brad Guzan and they already have a backup so I don't see them taking a keeper. So the question is whether Minnesota wants to pick a keeper, and if so, if they go for Irwin. It's certainly possible in my view.

    RB (Beitashour/Bloom):
    Chance Myers
    Chris Duvall
    Tyrone Mears
    Kevin Alston
    Sean Franklin

    Beitashour is the best RB available. If either team can fit his salary in, I just can't see him being passed up. I think Bloom may be safe due to the availability of Duvall, who is cheaper and better.

    CB (Williams):
    Gideon Baah
    Marvell Wynne
    Gaston Sauro
    Nuno Coelho
    Kofi Opare
    Zach Loyd
    Eric Gehrig
    Amobi Okugo
    Bobby Burling

    There are more available but I stopped here. Williams is cheap CB depth, and he's decent in that regard compared to similar players. There are better players available, but they're more expensive. I think it's possible Atlanta or Minnesota would be interested, but I very much doubt he gets picked before Beitashour, Bloom or Irwin, so I think he's safe.

    ST (Ricketts):
    Sebastian Le Toux
    Masato Kudo
    Alhaji Kamara
    Robbie Keane
    Dominic Oduro
    Charlie Davies
    Jack McInerney
    Quincy Amarikwa
    Cameron Porter

    The big upside with Ricketts is he's cheap, but he also takes up an international slot. There's a chance he goes, but again I have to doubt it's before our other guys.

    I also want to add it's possible Bez plans or has already planned to trade back for whoever we lose, even if we overpay a bit. He's shown to value stability and did this before with Lovitz when he was selected by NYCFC, and he wasn't even that important. I wouldn't be surprised for example if someone takes Beitashour and we send a bunch of TAM to get him back.

 

 

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