Match Day 24 - TFC @ Houston Sat Aug 13 [postponed Sun Aug 14, 9:15pm]

[Pookie]

If there is a study out there proving staying overnight away from your house gets you less rest than staying at your own house, that's enough proof.

It's a mutlipronged subject here.

It's well documented that NHL teams, when playing important playoff games and at home, will elect to have the players stay in a hotel. Reasons cited include team comraderie and fewer distractions.

I think road performance is at least partially related to road expectations. If I say "good road result" or "getting a road result" we all know what that means right? Why does "road" even factor into our language? Simply getting a win (or draw against a superior team) should be enough.

Generally speaking, if teams expect that a road game will be tough, it probably becomes tough.

[molenshtain]

I've not attacked Altidore really. He has impact.. my not be the impact I'd like but impact. Though he can likely be replaced by a healthier cheaper player to do much the same thing.. but that is just money and injury.



(Also for clarification.. the Toronto Sun comment was about the Toronto not the Sun. (though Sun media isn't my go to source for much of anything)


It just goes to show that dissenting opinions here are unwelcome.

I dislike Vanney's choices. All I see is constant excuses for him. I see a Pro Vanney bias from you more than an Anti bias.

Look at the excuses.. We have won games, we have injuries, it was a western conference team, it was away.

Does that excuse a 3 man defense? Does it excuse the fact that players deep in the season can't connect? Does it excuse a poor strategy thought out the second half? the same one that result in a goal against in a tie game in San Jose resulting in a lose and this time nearly had the same result a few times?

Ya we hit the bar.. so did they though. In fact I was more worried that Houston was going to score than I was expecting us to.. I'm not the only one.. Bradley took a yellow because of that worry.


I'm not going to pretend everything is great because we got a point and we won 4 games at home with a totally different game plan, that I still suspect had more to do with the people above him putting pressure on him. As all season Vanney gets a goal and then bunkers down. (as evidence by double the single goal games this season over last) He normally doesn't chase a second goal. He also has yet to win a single game coming back from a goal down. Through out the home stretch we scored first and for the most part kept chasing goals.

This time we were scored on first.. and had to chase the second goal and couldn't get it. We spent a whole half basically crossing the ball into the box and hoping for the best. There were a few attempts at other things but very little. Houston looked more likely to score through that second half than TFC.. and we got lucky twice they didn't. They also got lucky twice we didn't. (A good clearing of the line and one off the bar). All I saw was San Jose redux.

But hey, it has been made clear that the Vanney Van is full and if you aren't on it there is a GTFO mentality.. so by all means accept mediocrity in a coach don't demand better because we got a point.. who cares if it was good play or good coaching.. we got a point so it makes everything ok.. because you like Vanney and we have a point.. and injuries and it was a western team, and the league has parity (it doesn't). Lets ignore anything bad because we aren't last.

So Ciao.. you, Oldtimer, Fort York, Yohan, and the rest of the Vanney supports have shouted me down. How dare I look at bad play and call it bad.. you are right.. stupid decisions resulting in two chances in 8 minutes including a goal.. is genius play..because we got a point.

That is what you want to hear right? Vanney is amazing.. best coach ever... next time you have dinner with him be sure to tell him you have evangelized him.

This is peak RPB forum and TFC fandom. This is the Zenith. I want to print this out and frame it.

[Thomas]

Let's take a breather here. I just reviewed the San Jose thread (barely 30 days ago), and it sounded truly dire. Look where we are now. To be clear, we should have done better with the man advantage, but I can live with with an away tie game. Is it optimal? No. Could we have done better? Absolutely. Let's learn from it and move forward. Thanks, Tom

[ag futbol]

If there is a study out there proving staying overnight away from your house gets you less rest than staying at your own house, that's enough proof.

There are studies that show increased adrenalin / testosterone levels when fighting on home surf. Can't remember if it's animals / athletes or whatever. But I saw something along these lines published.

[Oldtimer]

There are studies that show increased adrenalin / testosterone levels when fighting on home surf. Can't remember if it's animals / athletes or whatever. But I saw something along these lines published.

Thanks for that, found the study:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...31938402009691

Increased testosterone in soccer players based on home team advantage, and whether or not the opponent is a rival. That's truly amazing.

[OgtheDim]

Hockey player traditions are not scientific proof of anything. Frankly all they prove is how hidebound by tradition that game has become. Pardon me while I barf during the World Cup of hockey adverts saying hockey invented Canada. Bullshit.

Again, I'd there is any scientific evidence that staying overnight away from your house in comparison to staying at your own house reduces effectiveness, that's proof enough that MLS away games are more difficult than European away games.

[Pookie]

There are studies that show increased adrenalin / testosterone levels when fighting on home surf. Can't remember if it's animals / athletes or whatever. But I saw something along these lines published.

Really interesting, thanks for sharing.

If true, it would point heavily to what goes on in the brain prior to a match influencing hormone levels.

[105]

Parity is so great in the MLS that any road game will be challenge. Given the circumstances of the match, it's a game they should have won, but given their form of late, I can't be too upset.

[stegosaurus]

If there is a study out there proving staying overnight away from your house gets you less rest than staying at your own house, that's enough proof.

There actually is: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...in-a-new-place

[Prof]

Voice of Reason, the Sequel:

Why get worked up over a draw in MLS during the pre-Playoff season? Over half the teams get in which makes this a glorified preseason.

Question to the Voices:



Why is it that in soccer, we accept "not losing on the Road" as a victory? Seems like we have this self fulfilling notion that road wins are tough to get. I don't see NHL, MLB, NBA even NHL teams thinking that they aren't likely to win on the road.

I mean maybe if you are in a hostile venue where bags of urine are being thrown at you... but Houston? They are that intimidated by being in Houston that they can't wait to get on the bus and back on the plane?

#aimhigher

Maybe because the actual game is way more physically demanding than NBA, NHL and MLB and therefore the additional demands of the distance travelled has much more of an effect on MLS than those other leagues mentioned.

[Oldtimer]

There actually is: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...in-a-new-place

This board is amazing as a resource.

So it's shown that: Home soccer teams have greater testosterone, especially against a rival
Visiting teams get poor sleep

The greater testosterone explains why away wins are harder than home wins.
The poor sleep alone is enough to explain that plus why road wins are so much harder in MLS than in other leagues. In most European countries, travel is usually same-day.

[Pookie]

This board is amazing as a resource.

So it's shown that: Home soccer teams have greater testosterone, especially against a rival
Visiting teams get poor sleep

The greater testosterone explains why away wins are harder than home wins.
The poor sleep alone is enough to explain that plus why road wins are so much harder in MLS than in other leagues. In most European countries, travel is usually same-day.

Not to get all scientific here but home teams having more testosterone is fine but understanding why is important.

The mind-body performance connection is huge. Thoughts release hormones (eg whether that's a relaxing cottage morning or a big morning presentation... same person different perception and subsequently different feelings).

If home teams are amped for the expectation of a win while road teams are meh, just hope we don't lose... that will have an impact on hormones.

Which is great news as it points to the fact that your expectations can change your chemistry and maybe the results.

[C.Ronaldo]

Ive done a self study and usually when i stay at a hotel, i dont get much sleep

[notthesun]

Well, while we're on the subject, I don't know if any of you have read Scorecasting by Tobias Moskowitz and Jon Wertheim (great book and you're guaranteed to like it if you've ever read and enjoyed Freakonomics or Soccernomics), but they cover home advantage in depth using data on pretty much every major league. The real book does a much better job of going through it but this blog is a decent summary: https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/kevindeyoung/2014/03/11/how-do-you-explain-home-field-advantage/

Basically they argue that over the long run, the most significant factor in home advantage is the referee (well, the referees being influenced by the home crowd). Travel and weather are shown to be largely irrelevant, and the idea that support from the home fans motivates players to play better is also negligible (though it's hard to measure this). And in their data, MLS has the highest home advantage (69.1% home team wins from 2002-2009) not just of other soccer leagues, but of all leagues they looked at (higher than in hockey, american football, basketball, baseball, rugby, and cricket). Here's a link to the page of the book in preview on Google Books. You can note that the sport of soccer has a higher average of home advantage than other sports, as the referee in soccer can influence the outcome of a game much more than others.

It's hard to let go of the feeling that travel plays a large role in home advantage in MLS, but I can definitely see how MLS would have the most skewed home advantage while the data points to referees accounting for most of that advantage, since MLS refs are pretty bad.

[ensco]

Well, while we're on the subject, I don't know if any of you have read Scorecasting by Tobias Moskowitz and Jon Wertheim (great book and you're guaranteed to like it if you've ever read and enjoyed Freakonomics or Soccernomics), but they cover home advantage in depth using data on pretty much every major league. The real book does a much better job of going through it but this blog is a decent summary: https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/kevindeyoung/2014/03/11/how-do-you-explain-home-field-advantage/

Basically they argue that over the long run, the most significant factor in home advantage is the referee (well, the referees being influenced by the home crowd). Travel and weather are shown to be largely irrelevant, and the idea that support from the home fans motivates players to play better is also negligible (though it's hard to measure this). And in their data, MLS has the highest home advantage (69.1% home team wins from 2002-2009) not just of other soccer leagues, but of all leagues they looked at (higher than in hockey, american football, basketball, baseball, rugby, and cricket). Here's a link to the page of the book in preview on Google Books. You can note that the sport of soccer has a higher average of home advantage than other sports, as the referee in soccer can influence the outcome of a game much more than others.

It's hard to let go of the feeling that travel plays a large role in home advantage in MLS, but I can definitely see how MLS would have the most skewed home advantage while the data points to referees accounting for most of that advantage, since MLS refs are pretty bad.

It's an interesting book.

I read it a while ago, so don't hold me to this, but I think the book was arguing that there is an intimidation of officials in many sports, based on crowd behaviour, and I didn't totally buy the argument in MLS, given MLS attendance levels (but I sure did for NCAA basketball!).

[Oldtimer]

Well, while we're on the subject, I don't know if any of you have read Scorecasting by Tobias Moskowitz and Jon Wertheim (great book and you're guaranteed to like it if you've ever read and enjoyed Freakonomics or Soccernomics), but they cover home advantage in depth using data on pretty much every major league. The real book does a much better job of going through it but this blog is a decent summary: https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/kevindeyoung/2014/03/11/how-do-you-explain-home-field-advantage/

Basically they argue that over the long run, the most significant factor in home advantage is the referee (well, the referees being influenced by the home crowd). Travel and weather are shown to be largely irrelevant, and the idea that support from the home fans motivates players to play better is also negligible (though it's hard to measure this). And in their data, MLS has the highest home advantage (69.1% home team wins from 2002-2009) not just of other soccer leagues, but of all leagues they looked at (higher than in hockey, american football, basketball, baseball, rugby, and cricket). Here's a link to the page of the book in preview on Google Books. You can note that the sport of soccer has a higher average of home advantage than other sports, as the referee in soccer can influence the outcome of a game much more than others.

It's hard to let go of the feeling that travel plays a large role in home advantage in MLS, but I can definitely see how MLS would have the most skewed home advantage while the data points to referees accounting for most of that advantage, since MLS refs are pretty bad.

I read that in Soccernomics and I don't buy that argument (at least that referee bias is all of the cause). It's a well known fact that west coast teams tend do better in almost any sport against east coast teams. It's not possible that west coast referees are more biased in every sport. Travel has to play a part.

[Scotty74]

It's a well known fact that west coast teams tend do better in almost any sport against east coast teams. It's not possible that west coast referees are more biased in every sport. Travel has to play a part.

I'd agree with that, put the time zone changes of 3 hours into it and Eastern teams are starting at 10pm or 10.30pm their time, whereas Western teams coming East have a start time of the afternoon their time. This defo comes into play

[notthesun]

It's an interesting book.

I read it a while ago, so don't hold me to this, but I think the book was arguing that there is an intimidation of officials in many sports, based on crowd behaviour, and I didn't totally buy the argument in MLS, given MLS attendance levels (but I sure did for NCAA basketball!).

I remember reading about a study that looked at Bundesliga games over many seasons and found a higher home advantage in stadiums without a track around the field than ones with a track. The intuition being that the fans are physically closer to the referee in stadiums without a track and therefore are more loud and intimidating, and ultimately more effective at influencing decisions.