Voice of reason, here.
First and foremost, Toronto FC should be disappointed it didn't win, but...
The two injuries handcuffed Vanney in the second half. He knew he was going to use his remaining substitute on Altidore.
I spoke with Vanney post-game. He pushed Altidore to 70 minutes despite having planned to only play him for an hour.
If Altidore stays in that game, I think they win it.
Furthermore, raging over a draw on the road in MLS amid a five-game unbeaten streak is a bit bizarre.
Larson
People are probably just drunk.Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN
Overall a good point, and even a bit unlucky with Jozy hitting the post. Could've been 3 points, but not should've been. A point on the road is fine.
Voice Of Reason reminder...
Toronto FC has lost twice since May 28, winning the Canadian Championship along the way.
He went down hard on his tailbone trying to head away the ball in. They called into a hip contusion, my feeling is he should be back on Saturday. I've done the same thing before and your ass throbs for about 3 days.
^^This...... plus Delgado keeps hesitating when he should be moving. He is way to unsure of what he should do most of the time. All things considered we are undefeated in 5, dealing with an unexpected extra night on the road in the brutal heat. I'm not happy with the game, but I'll take the point and move on.
Also we are currently on 37 points, we have never before at this stage of the season been able to say we have 37 points.
Voice of Reason, the Sequel:
Why get worked up over a draw in MLS during the pre-Playoff season? Over half the teams get in which makes this a glorified preseason.
Question to the Voices:
Why is it that in soccer, we accept "not losing on the Road" as a victory? Seems like we have this self fulfilling notion that road wins are tough to get. I don't see NHL, MLB, NBA even NHL teams thinking that they aren't likely to win on the road.
I mean maybe if you are in a hostile venue where bags of urine are being thrown at you... but Houston? They are that intimidated by being in Houston that they can't wait to get on the bus and back on the plane?
#aimhigher
It's not in Soccer generally, but MLS specifically. There's a lot more parity in this league than in most others. There's also extreme differences game to game on the road due to travel, surfaces, altitudes, climates etc.
It's part of the reason teams like Dallas, Houston and Colorado uniformly have very good home records regardless of how good their teams actually are year to year.
But...YOU'RE a voice, no?
And really, what's this hashtaging outburst about? One would think we're in the pussplops.
I'm sure there are stats to turn to on team results away vs at home and I'm confident someone will enjoy uncovering this scoobi-doo like mystery.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
What he Said!
Last edited by lintberg; 08-15-2016 at 08:32 AM.
Official Member of the Montreal Miracle Crew 2009
Raging over poor decision making, odd subs, and not being able to beat one of the weakest sides in the league while up a man for 45 minutes and letting in a goal early in the match... all things that should not happen... is Bizarre?
Kurt I realize you are a Toronto Sun Reporter so sport mediocrity is the norm... but what you call bizarre is people demanding better. If we earned a point instead of losing two it would be different but when you start a game with only 3 defenders and let a goal in early and give them several early chances.. that is the coach. It is totally rageable. More so is when this coach can't organize his squad with a Half time break to defeat a ten man side that sits at 18 on a 20 team table while TFC is sitting at 5th that is also rageable.
Vanney was away from home and made odd choices, odd subs.. it was San Jose all over again.. TFC were organized in a way that a better team would have beaten us.. it isn't like this is the first time TFC has been up a man or two and wasn't able to perform. It shows Vanney learned Nothing at all from San Jose. So no it isn't Bizarre at all.. what is Bizarre to me is people defending poor decision making in a situation where the same poor decision making has been seen in the past. It is cheering for mediocrity when greatness is achievable. TFC isn't the fat kid that is running the 200m without stopping for the first time any more. Our Fat kid is lean and capable of winning now and needs to be held to that standard.
And yes they lost twice since June 18th and won twice between June 18th and July 16 in which they played 6 games. Since May 28th they have lost 3 games not 2.... and for perspective.. they won 4 games at home in the course of 2 weeks. It was promising.. but if they can't continue to play well... it is just a blip not a turn around. When you twist the numbers to make is sound like a longer time frame than it is.. that is spin not reason. Particularly when one of those games was San Jose where a month ago TFC was up 2 men away from home.. and lost because San Jose scored due to the same formation and decision making we saw in Houston.
Last edited by Kaz; 08-15-2016 at 08:49 AM.
spot on ... this was 3 points that was in their grasp and they didn't find a way to get it done ... doesn't men we need to burn the house down or fire the coach, but this was our best chance at a 3 point game on the road and we let it get away from us
In my view, these are the games that tend to separate the teams in first from the rest.
The commentators last night were talking about TFC not shooting from distance and trying to walk the ball in. I did a bit of research and as far as I can see, the last time a TFC player other than Giovinco scored from outside the box was Osorio on Aug 1st 2015 against NER.
1) Odd subs? That's an interesting way of putting it given the circumstances.
2) Houston one of the weakest sides in the league? You mean the side that has lost just once at home this season in the supposedly stronger West? There are no "weak" sides in MLS, especially when that supposed "weak" side is playing at home in Texas.
3) I'm not sure why "playing up a man" = Automatic win to some people. Houston was compact, defended well. Toronto FC still hit the post and had a ball cleared off the line.
4) Yes. They conceded a goal on the road. I mean, what's the expectation here? Clean sheets every weekend? Toronto FC still has the second-best GD in the league and one of the best GAAs.
5) Toronto Sun mediocrity? I'm sure you've been enjoying my mediocrity for years.
6) They began the game with five defenders and were unlocked by a quality one-two. Again, they conceded a single goal on the road. Not a surprise.
7) As for your third paragraph, you do realize teams are only permitted three changes in a match, right? Injuries forced Vanney into two.
8) You're going to have to get over the San Jose loss at some point. The loss at home to Vancouver was worse.
9) If you want to talk about actual numbers, Toronto FC has lost two of its previous 11 MLS matches. Those two losses were on the road.
... Only a person who doesn't understand the slim margins in this league would rage over a draw (whatever the circumstances) in Houston. Take the road point. Carry on. Good sign that Jozy is playing well. Toronto FC just needs to survive these games and win games at home.
I can't help believe that if you're this upset amid a five-game unbeaten run you have a personal bias against Vanney.
Larson
I don't think everyone does their part for this team, from watching them play it looks like they chose to defer to Giovinco, Bradley, or Jozy all the time. That's what frustrating to watch, the best teams in the world, including the one's in this league are built around solid spines, but everyone that comes in has to contribute. I don't see that here.
Welcome to MLS? This is pretty standard for a team to have 2-3 guys that are looked upon to produce in every game. I only watched the first half but saw good plays from many others including some actually movement by Osorio. We need more of that.
3) I'm not sure why "playing up a man" = Automatic win to some people. Houston was compact, defended well. Toronto FC still hit the post and had a ball cleared off the line
Actually it is approximately 52.5% probability of winning according to all the oddsmakers, people are getting angry over a coin toss that did not go their way
ask Vanney about that.. Apparently he said that he was playing with 5 midfielders not three defenders.
It isn't the goal it is how they did it.
I've watched the games... minus our home stretch after the dismal San Jose game I haven't liked what I saw. Our first game away from Vanney's handlers and his strategy allowed a goal in the first minutes of the game.. and at least one other good attempt.
It wasn't until after Bloom came off and we switched to a more 4-4-2 that things changed.
I understand the Margins good teams win.. good coaches don't put a 3 man defense out resulting in two chances and a goal in the first 8 minutes.
You may think I have a bias against.. I am critical absolutely. Of course you and several other people defending him the way Argos writers defend the lack of attendance.
Agree but I wish someone would sit down with Chapman and tell him that when he is open at the top of the box that he has to shoot rather than look to pass to Giovinco no matter how many defenders are surrounding him.
Whatever your interpretation, criticizing the head coach amid a five-game unbeaten streak and a two-losses-in-11 run (especially considering long term injuries to Johnson, Bradley, Irwin and Altidore) speaks to a bias. You have an anti-Greg Vanney bias.
I shouldn't have to defend Vanney. But feel I have to when people take what I believe are mindless shots.
I've been defending Altidore since his arrival, too. He looked pretty good last night, eh?
Last edited by KurtLarSUN; 08-15-2016 at 10:06 AM.
I don't get the "odd subs" critique.
And not that I want to go to war for Vanney every weekend, but does he not getting any credit for drawing up that set piece? They've been working on it at the training ground for weeks.
And that strike from Altidore, let me say, was world class. So difficult to keep that down with that kind of power.
A contender would have put that team to bed last night after the card....but in true TFC fashion they decided to play the crossing game for the entire half.
There is no excuse for not putting the last place team on ice with the team we have. It seems that every time the opposition gets a red card that we try to over do it and end up coming up short.
Does Vanney even have a game plan when the other team goes down a man or is it more of a "just keep crossing it from the right side of the box...they'll never figure that out"
Oso really pulling a disappearing act lately. Didn't even look like he was on the field last night. Maybe Endoh for Oso next game. Bradley had a poor game too, he just passed to Houston all night long.
Weird game but 1 out of 1st in the East!
My question to everyone, is why isn't this loss on the players?
Vanney had to make 2 first half subs due to injuries and could not execute the plan he had in place for the game.
The majority of people shit on Vanney when ever they lose and praise the players when ever TFC wins. At the end of the day the players are the one on the pitch and if they are up a man or two like vs SJ this is nothing to do with Vanney, this on the players for not taking over and finishing off the opposition.
We got a point. It's ok.
9/20 (45%) teams in this league have lost 1 or less games at home this season.
13/20 (65%) teams have lost 2 or less games at home.
A win would've been nice, but I'm happy with the comeback tie. We're moving in the absolute right direction.
Did u see us hit the post and also they did an amazing bicycle kick off the line? Sometimes it just won't go in, that's footy pal !
I've not attacked Altidore really. He has impact.. my not be the impact I'd like but impact. Though he can likely be replaced by a healthier cheaper player to do much the same thing.. but that is just money and injury.
(Also for clarification.. the Toronto Sun comment was about the Toronto not the Sun. (though Sun media isn't my go to source for much of anything)
It just goes to show that dissenting opinions here are unwelcome.
I dislike Vanney's choices. All I see is constant excuses for him. I see a Pro Vanney bias from you more than an Anti bias.
Look at the excuses.. We have won games, we have injuries, it was a western conference team, it was away.
Does that excuse a 3 man defense? Does it excuse the fact that players deep in the season can't connect? Does it excuse a poor strategy thought out the second half? the same one that result in a goal against in a tie game in San Jose resulting in a lose and this time nearly had the same result a few times?
Ya we hit the bar.. so did they though. In fact I was more worried that Houston was going to score than I was expecting us to.. I'm not the only one.. Bradley took a yellow because of that worry.
I'm not going to pretend everything is great because we got a point and we won 4 games at home with a totally different game plan, that I still suspect had more to do with the people above him putting pressure on him. As all season Vanney gets a goal and then bunkers down. (as evidence by double the single goal games this season over last) He normally doesn't chase a second goal. He also has yet to win a single game coming back from a goal down. Through out the home stretch we scored first and for the most part kept chasing goals.
This time we were scored on first.. and had to chase the second goal and couldn't get it. We spent a whole half basically crossing the ball into the box and hoping for the best. There were a few attempts at other things but very little. Houston looked more likely to score through that second half than TFC.. and we got lucky twice they didn't. They also got lucky twice we didn't. (A good clearing of the line and one off the bar). All I saw was San Jose redux.
But hey, it has been made clear that the Vanney Van is full and if you aren't on it there is a GTFO mentality.. so by all means accept mediocrity in a coach don't demand better because we got a point.. who cares if it was good play or good coaching.. we got a point so it makes everything ok.. because you like Vanney and we have a point.. and injuries and it was a western team, and the league has parity (it doesn't). Lets ignore anything bad because we aren't last.
So Ciao.. you, Oldtimer, Fort York, Yohan, and the rest of the Vanney supports have shouted me down. How dare I look at bad play and call it bad.. you are right.. stupid decisions resulting in two chances in 8 minutes including a goal.. is genius play..because we got a point.
That is what you want to hear right? Vanney is amazing.. best coach ever... next time you have dinner with him be sure to tell him you have evangelized him.
could've sworn we're unbeaten in 5 and a point out of 1st with a game up.....
#KeepCalmAndVanneyOn
Last edited by TFC Tifoso; 08-15-2016 at 11:04 AM.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
