This right here 100%.Originally Posted by jabbronies
Hell no to a move. Maybe if the CPL was a conference within MLS. But having a second Toronto team unafilliated with us and eligible to play in the Canada Cup might be an interesting idea.
Yes
No
Undecided
This right here 100%.
Hell no to a move. Maybe if the CPL was a conference within MLS. But having a second Toronto team unafilliated with us and eligible to play in the Canada Cup might be an interesting idea.
One of the reasons the CFL is behind this new league is because they see the success of MLS teams in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal and see how these teams are starting to take money away from the CFL franchise in those cities and now are trying to get a foothold on soccer in the remaining CFL cities without an MLS team before more of these CFL cities start looking for an MLS team of their own and then cut into their CFL market even more. I would without a doubt see an MLS team working in Ottawa, Edmonton and Calgary the CFL fears this so now is trying to get their own league going so that the MLS can't expand into those cities.
Air Canada or West Jet would be good to have as partners, but the key is TV revenue money from either TSN or Rogers. The CPL will need $5 million a year in TV revenue spread between the teams to break even if they can average 3000 paying spectators per game. They'll need a single entity structure to help spread the load if one or two teams are in difficulty. An 8-10 year contract will give them breathing room to gain traction in the national consciousness. And if the CSA wins a WC bid, you can bet that the TV networks would be salivating over those rights.
I don't ever see the CPL being a competitor to MLS or them seeing it that way. The remaining Canadian cities are too small a market compared to what is available in the states. I also don't think MLS will keep expanding indefinitely. They'll cap it at 32 as there is a law of diminishing returns on sharing TV revenue amongst owners. Soccer is kind of unique in that there are tournaments where clubs at different levels of the pyramid can play against each other, so I foresee a rivalry between CPL and Canadian MLS clubs as to who can perform better at those competitions (when Canada gets its second spot in the CCL, it should go to the CPL champion). I remember John Pugh talking at the first Fury Supporter's pub meeting about how they considered putting in an MLS bid, but didn't think it was worth it or that they didn't have enough capital to meet the requirements. I'm not sure if that's changed in the 3 years since that meeting, but I do know they were committed to improving the Canadian talent pool.
has nothing to do with soccer. These clubs control their stadiums and want to sell more beer and burgers. Thats it.
Anyways, the CPL will never get off the ground unless the CSA pays for it all.
No way any of these games will be on TSN. TSN is struggling with MLS, why would they show CPL.
This is true of every major Canadian city; it's just passion blinding people to reality. In Edmonton, lacrosse couldn't survive but still often drew north of 6,000 a game, and more than 9,000 for playoffs. Meanwhile, the NASL team is seen as incompetent and second-rate, and has one of the NASL's lowest attendances.
People have adapted to an established standard from watching the multi-channel TV universe for two decades now. They want good football; the only way this league will survive and compete is if it puts a product comparable to MLS on the field. Given that for the bulk of the roster that's maybe $2M a year more than they're planning they would be shortsighted not to concentrate on quality over Canadian content, knowing the chances a successful league will create down the road. But that's not what will happen. Instead, we're getting more talk of building from the grassroots and even playing outside the MLS cities only.
Yikes.
The more i think about it, a team to bridge the gap between USL and MLS would make sense for MLSE.
Canada could have a pro hockey league that rivalled the NHL. In Fact if properly developed it could be the senior league to the NHL. Soccer on the other hand has got to far to go - would rather see MLS expand to mexico.
We're a much more urban and cosmopolitan a nation than we give ourselves credit for; the best outcome for soccer would come from an all-in investment of at least MLS levels, maybe more. As long as it was top rate, people would go, in the same way that Torontonians who wouldn't look twice at the ARgos will go to a Bills V Tampa Bay exhibition and drop a c-note a piece.
I actually think a Canadian division, with 5 teams, in MLS, is the way to go. Put teams in Ottawa, Edmonton.
As a hypothetical model: say there are 30 MLS teams eventually. Have 6 divisions, they would each play an unbalanced schedule, ie 3 games total against each other, and every other MLS team once. The top two teams in each division go into MLS playoffs. Canadian division winner goes into Concacaf each year.
Pretty easy to create clusters that would lead to mostly good divisions, btw
Canada
NYx2, NE, Phil, DCU
Cascadia + Rockies (RSL + Rapids)
Califonia (3 teams) + Texas (2 teams)
Mia/Atl/Orl + ??
Chicago + KC + Minn + STL (Expansion) + 1 (Detroit?)
this analysis makes me think that we will see some expansion in the southeast and Canada that hasn't been talked about much yet - the League needs to build those clusters/rivalries up.
What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.
As the CFL has done such a great job with their league and it's relationship with soccer fans in the media and in general, this is a surefire way to kill the sport in Canada and keep a CFL foothold in the markets that they remain in.
MLS will not get any increase in TV money by expanding to Canadian Cities. The US networks and eyeballs they are courting do not care to see foreign teams in their domestic league. Their nightmare would be an all-Canadian MLS final.
The owners of the CFL stadiums are looking for additional ways to monetize their asset by adding more sporting events and making sure enough concessions are open to handle the demand and turn a profit. There are two established teams in Edmonton and Ottawa that have shown they can produce decent quality of play. There are more players coming down the pipeline from L1O, PLSQ, and hopefully the PCSL. Players who wash out of the MLS academies are probably of decent enough quality that the level of play won't be horrible. The atmosphere at soccer matches is unique compared to other professional sports in North America.
Last edited by Initial B; 06-10-2016 at 08:54 AM.
No, that is how things are done in the big cities, especially Toronto.
Look at the soccer situation around the world and realize every country has it's own sustainable league, it's embarrassing that we can't get our act together and have to rely on another federation to do it for us.
We invented hockey and look what's happened to it, we sold it out for the $USD and all of our teams are routinely shit, that's why none have won the cup since Canadiens in 93 or 94 w/e. They are considering Las fucking Vegas over Quebec City, if that doesn't make you want to give the finger to the NHL, nothing will.
TFC is only as good as it's profitable for MLS owners, if it's ever not, bye bye.
De Vos is that you?
This. MLS will continue to be the top dog in north America. Nothing I have seen in the modern NASL or in the proposed CPL will change that. I want a top flight team in Toronto. I spent time watching the Toronto Lynx playing to sparse crowds because that's all that there was. Why would I want that era back again?
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
You were saying the CPL would be inferior because of the CFL stadiums and plastic pitches, my response was that MLS plays on plastic pitches and in baseball stadiums. So what is the difference?
I'd be strongly against TFC II playing in the CPL for a couple of reasons.
1. Nothing screams 'mickey mouse league' more than having reserve teams playing in it. The CSA can't sell it as a D1 product to fans or broadcasters if TFC II, Whitecaps II, and that other MLS team's academies are in it.
2. If the quality of the league is going to be somewhere between NASL and MLS level, that's just way to high for the 16-20 year olds we have playing in USL now.
I don't think that getting the CPL to the level of MLS is an impossible task, and that's all that's needed to attract fans/sponsors/etc. This isn't like the CFL competing with the NFL. MLS isn't the La Liga of world football.
Ha ha, no. I'm also from London. Actually, I played against that nitwit when I was a kid. (And I don't think he'd be posting in any way associated with Norwich City).
Last edited by Canary10; 06-10-2016 at 02:57 PM.
Think how the MLS has to spend for talent. Change rules regularly to improve. The likelihood of CPL having the resources to match NASL with fewer teams involved would be unfavourable.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
If the CPL were smart in their startup and had the money to burn for the first decade which is what it would take to catch on, they would use a $5 MIL salary cap for each team to start with no DP's. And they would always stay ahead of the MLS salary cap.
In my mind CPL teams in theory would be deeper than MLS teams and thus probably outperform them over time also likely stealing talent from MLS teams on an overall lower budget. The DP's really skew how much teams spend overall but leave the teams not very deep in talent. Also I think it's bad for team morale in general when salaries are so widely varied. Better to pay 20 guys $250,000 a year on one team than 3 guys 5 MIL each and others on the same team $50,000.
It's an advantage the CPL could pry at. They're not going to attract the super stars no matter what because they'll never have the money for it at least for a few decades anyway.
Better off scouring the world for $200,000 to $500,000 players and stacking a team with those, and probably in the long run beating MLS teams that aren't deep at all.
EDIT: quick math says that an 8 team league would need to burn $40,000,000 per year to do this. That's not a lot in my mind for wealthy investors who want to make a go at this. they'd have to know they'll lose money for the first decade. But if it caught on a single TV deal would cover the salary cap.
Last edited by Alonso; 06-10-2016 at 06:18 PM.
MX is the dominate league in north america ... if they offseason was any indication, they basically use MLS as a farm league
Agreed. Agreed, agreed, agreed. It will only work if the quality is there.
These are not MLS-level investors involved in this. The CFL is starting to struggle with it's $4.5 million salary cap for 9 teams with a $40 million a year TSN TV contract. And that's an established league. There is no way they start with a $5 mill cap. Heck, all my analysis is based on an $800K cap for the CPL. I think it would be irresponsible to raise it that high all at once. I think a $5 million per year TV contract is very generous for an untested league. I calculated that travel, stadium operations, and front office/coaching/admin expenses are going to run about $850K per franchise, not including player salaries. If they can tie in the World Cup rights for the next two cycles up to a TV contract for the new league, they might be able to fetch up to $10-20 million per year for 8 years. That's probably creaming, but even then they would be able to afford a $1.5-2 million cap, which would place them ahead of most NASL franchises in terms of team wages.
For this league to succeed it would need one or several very wealthy investors that love the sport and want to see it grow and tap the potential of the players in this country.
Like billions.
Let's ask Frank Stronach, Chip Wilson, Garrett Camp And Bernard Sherman if they love Canada and football.
Maybe they want to buy themselves some football teams, it's what billionaires do in their natural habitat no?!?
I agree. I like that we play against us teams in North American sports, but in football I am all for a national team. it is not like the mls has the same tradition as MLB, NHL and NBA. Playing the Red Bull and fire is not like playing the Yankees and Tigers, or the Bulls and Nicks.
but but the trilium cup!
The whole point of CPL is to develop Canadian players since MLS haven't exactly helped much for Canadian soccer. Also, USSF will never allow Canadian division in MLS or NASL so this leave CSA no choice but start up all Canadian soccer league.
TFC and Canadian MLS teams technically could be force to move to CPL or fold if CSA wants to, but that will hurt Canadian soccer in short term.
CPL must start out of the gate capturing a young generation
That means local clubs, social media, transit friendly venues, event like game days, uber vouchers, and all games streamed on you tube live (like USL).
Im okay with eventually having an east vs west league that play in the Canadian Tire Canuck Bowl
You just need to get butts in the seats, then cash in on volume once they are there. concessions have to be reasonable and same with merchandise sales.
It needs to be as easy as possible to follow and watch CPL
But the level of play itself must also be palatable. Having the league included in the EA FIFA1x franchise would also be helpful.
It would be like taking Swansea out of the premiership and putting them in the Welsh league. no sense in doing that.
Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.
Roy Keane
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote