Would you be in favour of a move to the Canadian Premier League?

[Lennon]

Don't know if this would even be possible, or if it's something MLSE would even consider, but how do you guys feel? Would you be in favor of TFC leaving MLS to play in the CPL?

Couple of pros and cons off the top of my head.

Pros:
- We'd be playing in our domestic league against other Canadian teams and players (the way it should be). More interest for the casual fan going up against the likes of Ottawa and Hamilton as opposed to Chicago & Philadelphia.
- Helping grow the game in this country. Having a former MLS team in the league would go a long way to legitimizing it as a serious D1 league.

Cons:
- Lower quality soccer, at least in the beginning. From what I hear the CPL would be somewhere in between the NASL and MLS. With a lower salary cap and no DP's (?), it would be harder to compete with the rest of CONCACAF.
- Uncertain future. We can't say for sure that the CPL will be a success. With MLS expansion fees rising and the cap going up every year, it's safe to say that MLS won't be folding any time soon.

If this can't happen right away, maybe it's something to consider for the future? There are many cities out there with MLS aspirations and there might not be enough room for all of them. Maybe MLSE can sell their spot in the league for a nice profit once MLS gets to 30 teams or so.

[Yohan]

It will never happen. Might end up being a 2nd Toronto team, but TFC won't move to CPL. The money doesn't make sense.

Not to mention the quality of the league will suck big balls, at least in the beginning if insisting on high Canadian roster quota.

[Jpexxx]

I'd certainly be open to it, but way down the road.
I'm really hoping the CPL gets off the ground and manages to survive, in part due to the fact that I find it pretty embarrassing we are one of the only countries who participate in FIFA that don't have our own league.

If the CPL manages to get off the ground, and after a decade or so is doing well financially/ attendance wise/ attention wise/ competition wise, I wouldn't have a problem if TFC switched over.

But until it makes sense to do so, so prob staying put in MLS... We need at least 1 MLS Cup before we leave anyways...

[mistercorporate]

I would prefer having TFC2 moving to the CPL. TFC is better off sticking with MLS.

[OgtheDim]

CPL in theory is good for soccer in Canada.

BUT

I have serious doubts about how CPL is being created and see significant growing pains with the inorganic top down "build it and they will come" approach. I think ownership has no idea what they are getting into as far as supporters are concerned - football supporters/attenders are neither CFL demographics nor soccer moms. The organic growth of supporter culture in those cities will take 20+ years. Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal all had something to grow from. There is no supporter culture in most of the cities being contemplated. Its going to take time and buckets of money to get anywhere close to a profit.

More importantly, I'm not interested in supporting that level of quality when there is already a higher quality here.

Godspeed for them across the rest of the country.

[ManUtd4ever]

Don't know if this would even be possible, or if it's something MLSE would even consider, but how do you guys feel? Would you be in favor of TFC leaving MLS to play in the CPL?

Couple of pros and cons off the top of my head.

Pros:
- We'd be playing in our domestic league against other Canadian teams and players (the way it should be). More interest for the casual fan going up against the likes of Ottawa and Hamilton as opposed to Chicago & Philadelphia.
- Helping grow the game in this country. Having a former MLS team in the league would go a long way to legitimizing it as a serious D1 league.

Cons:
- Lower quality soccer, at least in the beginning. From what I hear the CPL would be somewhere in between the NASL and MLS. With a lower salary cap and no DP's (?), it would be harder to compete with the rest of CONCACAF.
- Uncertain future. We can't say for sure that the CPL will be a success. With MLS expansion fees rising and the cap going up every year, it's safe to say that MLS won't be folding any time soon.

If this can't happen right away, maybe it's something to consider for the future? There are many cities out there with MLS aspirations and there might not be enough room for all of them. Maybe MLSE can sell their spot in the league for a nice profit once MLS gets to 30 teams or so.

On the contrary, the Toronto market has demonstrated that it will only support the highest level professional sports leagues, which are all American based. Look at how the CFL is supported in this city.

If the CPL becomes a reality, it would be worth considering moving the current USL franchises across Canada, but that's where it ends in my opinion.

[jabbronies]

Maybe revisit the idea 60-80 years from now.

The Association that will probably run this thing would be the CSA or some iteration of it.
Overall, Canadian soccer is still a joke IMO and the CSA is a large reason for that.

yes there are miniscule pockets of good things happening in Canada - but it'll probably take 60-80 years for those pockets to become big enough to influence the larger national system and get fully up to speed and running.

I know how it's done in other parts of the world, but in North America, the top professional sports leagues include the USA.
IMO - A Canadian Soccer league would always be what the CFL is to the NFL. Small potatoes.

[zeelaw]

A Canadian Soccer league would always be what the CFL is to the NFL. Small potatoes.

Which is absolutely fine, I'd kill for the soccer equivalent of that in Canada.

[mistercorporate]

Which is absolutely fine, I'd kill for the soccer equivalent of that in Canada.

Same.

[SoccMan2]

I should start a thread in the all sports forum asking people how would people feel if the Jays left MLB to go play in a new Canadian Baseball League, or the Raptors left the NBA to go play in an all Canadian Basketball League or better still the Leafs leave the NHL to go play in an all Canadian Hockey League. This is Just how sports is done in Canada our sports teams play in American leagues we want our teams to play in the highest league avalaible in Canada and the US. Why would Canadian teams in the MLS who are some of the best supported teams in the league go to a brand new league that is just starting out and who's future would be so uncertain , why screw around with a successful thing in terms of the support these Canadian MLS teams get in the stands and take a chance on a new league where I'm almost certain attendance would take a big hit. Moreover , I would rather play the Chicagos and the NYC's and the LA's than the Reginas and Edmontons and I think that the casual Toronto sports fans think the same too. I mean we invented hockey it's what people think about when people think of Canada and guess what we don't even have our own pro hockey league, think about that for a moment.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I should start a thread in the all sports forum asking people how would people feel if the Jays left MLB to go play in a new Canadian Baseball League, or the Raptors left the NBA to go play in an all Canadian Basketball League or better still the Leafs leave the NHL to go play in an all Canadian Hockey League. This is Just how sports is done in Canada our sports teams play in American leagues we want our teams to play in the highest league avalaible in Canada and the US. Why would Canadian teams in the MLS who are some of the best supported teams in the league go to a brand new league that is just starting out and who's future would be so uncertain , why screw around with a successful thing in terms of the support these Canadian MLS teams get in the stands and take a chance on a new league where I'm almost certain attendance would take a big hit. Moreover , I would rather play the Chicagos and the NYC's and the LA's than the Reginas and Edmontons and I think that the casual Toronto sports fans think the same too. I mean we invented hockey it's what people think about when people think of Canada and guess what we don't even have our own pro hockey league, think about that for a moment.

Canada invented the version of hockey we know.

There's no reason we can't have our own league at a lower level. It's just more kids playing at a higher level.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Don't know if this would even be possible, or if it's something MLSE would even consider, but how do you guys feel? Would you be in favor of TFC leaving MLS to play in the CPL?

Couple of pros and cons off the top of my head.

Pros:
- We'd be playing in our domestic league against other Canadian teams and players (the way it should be). More interest for the casual fan going up against the likes of Ottawa and Hamilton as opposed to Chicago & Philadelphia.
- Helping grow the game in this country. Having a former MLS team in the league would go a long way to legitimizing it as a serious D1 league.

Cons:
- Lower quality soccer, at least in the beginning. From what I hear the CPL would be somewhere in between the NASL and MLS. With a lower salary cap and no DP's (?), it would be harder to compete with the rest of CONCACAF.
- Uncertain future. We can't say for sure that the CPL will be a success. With MLS expansion fees rising and the cap going up every year, it's safe to say that MLS won't be folding any time soon.

If this can't happen right away, maybe it's something to consider for the future? There are many cities out there with MLS aspirations and there might not be enough room for all of them. Maybe MLSE can sell their spot in the league for a nice profit once MLS gets to 30 teams or so.

No need. We saw TFC enter a team into 3 different leagues thus far. What's one more?

[jabbronies]

I should start a thread in the all sports forum asking people how would people feel if the Jays left MLB to go play in a new Canadian Baseball League, or the Raptors left the NBA to go play in an all Canadian Basketball League or better still the Leafs leave the NHL to go play in an all Canadian Hockey League. This is Just how sports is done in Canada our sports teams play in American leagues we want our teams to play in the highest league avalaible in Canada and the US. Why would Canadian teams in the MLS who are some of the best supported teams in the league go to a brand new league that is just starting out and who's future would be so uncertain , why screw around with a successful thing in terms of the support these Canadian MLS teams get in the stands and take a chance on a new league where I'm almost certain attendance would take a big hit. Moreover , I would rather play the Chicagos and the NYC's and the LA's than the Reginas and Edmontons and I think that the casual Toronto sports fans think the same too. I mean we invented hockey it's what people think about when people think of Canada and guess what we don't even have our own pro hockey league, think about that for a moment.

I agree with all of this

[Cashcleaner]

I don't see any scenario where a move of TFC out of MLS would be even possible, let alone preferential. I'm all for the creation of a true Canadian domestic league that would include the reserve teams of TFC, Impact, and Whitecaps in theory, but there are a lot of financial obstacles in the way and I'm not sure if it would be a money-maker for investors and owners. I'd like to say it's a possibility and I'm all for ideas to promote the sport throughout the country, but I really don't see it happening.

The only Canadian sport league that seems to be generating any good revenue is the CHL and it's a junior league. The NBLC is struggling. The CFL has a few teams making good money and most are either just treading water or outright drowning.

[greatwhitenorf]

Been there. Done that. Sent the wreckage to the scrap yard. No need to re-visit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadi...987%E2%80%9392)

Some truly cringe-worthy telecasts on TSN - with the golden tones of Vic Rauter calling the play. And the added attraction of bombastic commissioner (and part-time wrestling promoter - you couldn't make it up) Thunderin' Dale Barnes assaulting our ears on TV and radio, demanding support for Canadian soccer.

This proposed league has a spurious aspect to it that suggests CFL owners are trying to find a tactic to combat MLS interest, which has drawn away fan and sponsor support and media coverage from the CFL in Canada's three biggest markets.

It would be crap soccer, largely played on plastic CFL fields. In stadiums paid for by municipalities who might well be thinking how to get another sport into their venues to help pay for them.

[RealG-TFC]

I'd definitely want TFC to remain in MLS but would love for a Canadian league to take off and would definitely support a team (or teams even) in the GTA.

I think the real key is infrastructure though. If we had small but enclosed stadia like those in Scandinavia, with no visible football lines on the field, it would be great. When the stadium consist of only a lowly stand on one end it feels amateur. Heck something like Lamport Stadium with a few upgrades would be great.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Been there. Done that. Sent the wreckage to the scrap yard. No need to re-visit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadi...987%E2%80%9392)

Some truly cringe-worthy telecasts on TSN - with the golden tones of Vic Rauter calling the play. And the added attraction of bombastic commissioner (and part-time wrestling promoter - you couldn't make it up) Thunderin' Dale Barnes assaulting our ears on TV and radio, demanding support for Canadian soccer.

This proposed league has a spurious aspect to it that suggests CFL owners are trying to find a tactic to combat MLS interest, which has drawn away fan and sponsor support and media coverage from the CFL in Canada's three biggest markets.

It would be crap soccer, largely played on plastic CFL fields. In stadiums paid for by municipalities who might well be thinking how to get another sport into their venues to help pay for them.

Again protecting little ole MLS from 3rd tier competition? Yeesh. This league would be incredibly easy for you to ignore. I promise.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Would love it, I don't really care for the MLS (i'm only here for the Toronto). Also, the thought of league fixtures against Hamilton and Ottawa would be very exciting.

[Greatest Ripoff]

It would be crap soccer, largely played on plastic CFL fields.

And how does that differ from MLS? Baseball stadiums and plastic NFL fields?

[Greatest Ripoff]

I should start a thread in the all sports forum asking people how would people feel if Leafs leave the NHL to go play in an all Canadian Hockey League.

That might actually get me interested in hockey again. Imagine a hockey league was set up in Ontario like football is set up in England? Multiple teams in Toronto, teams in Hamilton, Kitchener, London, Oshawa, Ottawa, Sudbury, Barrie. Promotion and relegation. Imagine having enough teams throughout the province so the average person afford to attend games?

[Canary10]

Only if there is a London Lasers.

[Jpexxx]

On a side note:

Would anyone here support a Toronto based team in the CPL if an entity separate from TFC/ MLSE put on in?

Blizzard re-birth?!

[OgtheDim]

On a side note:

Would anyone here support a Toronto based team in the CPL if an entity separate from TFC/ MLSE put on in?

Blizzard re-birth?!

Not sure there is a non-MLSE run stadium big enough in this city for such an endeavour.

Maybe they could get together with the Argos &....

[greatwhitenorf]

And how does that differ from MLS? Baseball stadiums and plastic NFL fields?

It would be played mostly by young, under-resourced, bus-legged Canadian scurriers. The soccer version of CIS football. And managed by CFL and NHL owners who fear more than care about soccer. That's not the sort of stewardship I'd want for a Canadian league.

Not clear about what your second sentence is intended to say.

The best thing that could happen to Canadian soccer is that MLS grants a fourth or fifth franchise to Ottawa and one other city. Edmonton has a decent record in supporting our national teams, but not sure it has the market appeal in the States that MLS would be looking for. And Calgary? Hah! Been down the McLeod Trail many times and never once heard an encouraging word about soccer. And Winnipeg? They'll always have cherished memories of the brief, glorious existence of the Fury. An' Bobbie McMahon.

[mistercorporate]

I dunno man, saw the whitecaps ottawa fury game and was impressed with the quality of soccer ottawa displayed. If this is going to be higher calibre of soccer than nasl then we have nothing to worry about from an entertainment perspective. We may eventually even get teams in Kitchener, Oshawa, Barrie and Sudbury in a decade if this is successful. Something that really excites me and would motivate me to do road trips there.

[greatwhitenorf]

Again protecting little ole MLS from 3rd tier competition? Yeesh. This league would be incredibly easy for you to ignore. I promise.

Protecting? Hardly. This proposed league is on a hiding to nothing. But it could be completely watchable if TSN (who you just know would be league broadcaster) had big ol', chainsmokin' Saskatchewan farm boy Darrel Dutyshynyn do the telecasts. He could regale us with boyhood memories (not that he actually participated, mind) of prairie soccer - hay bales for grandstands, Herefords for balls, tractors for goalposts. It would be un-missable.

[Initial B]

I think everyone is missing the point. The purpose of this league is not to make money (except for TSN, who would probably show the games), but to provide a level of play between the Div3 regional leagues and the MLS clubs. It will be Div2 in all but name, but will trumpet itself as the highest level of soccer in Canada (shades of NASL). They are getting 6-7K per game here in Ottawa, so there is thought that they could get similar numbers in other cities. The CSA is being very careful in laying the groundwork for this league to make sure it doesn't suffer the first CSL's fate. The probably is going to be the travel that kills this league so they need some sponsorship from WestJet or Air Canada. I've heard Victoria, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Ottawa, Quebec City, and Moncton as possible initial locations for the 8-team league.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Protecting? Hardly. This proposed league is on a hiding to nothing. But it could be completely watchable if TSN (who you just know would be league broadcaster) had big ol', chainsmokin' Saskatchewan farm boy Darrel Dutyshynyn do the telecasts. He could regale us with boyhood memories (not that he actually participated, mind) of prairie soccer - hay bales for grandstands, Herefords for balls, tractors for goalposts. It would be un-missable.

A hiding to nothing, huh. Same odds as another Canadian MLS franchise. But while we're waiting for that there's no harm (but the big bad competition you speak of) in trying to make a league of our own.

[greatwhitenorf]

I'd love to read some in-depth comments from Ticats owner Bob Young about how much and for how long he's cared about developing Canadian soccer. Same goes for those chaps in Calgary who own the Flames, Stamps, Roughnecks etc.

Sure, it would be great to see the Canadian game grow and better develop domestic talent. I'm just not convinced that this proposed ownership group are the right people to do it.

As for the old CSL, Air Canada provided solid support for the league. It didn't matter.

I read that Bob Young is saying it will take a $20 million commitment for five years before teams begin to see traction. I think he's going to need a decade. Whether there's deep enough pockets to work for that length of time remains to be seen.

But if the league does begin to prosper, the first thing I would expect is that MLS will take notice and add another Canadian franchise or two to keep it from becoming a competitive rival for talent and support. They aren't going to abandon the business interests of their Canadian members.

And do you think Jeff Hunt et al in Ottawa or the Calgary sports barons would turn down the opportunity to play a level up? They're business men and they will always be seeking bigger business.

[OgtheDim]

I think everyone is missing the point. The purpose of this league is not to make money ...

The owners can't lose money forever on this.

Even CFL owners have tired of that and went out and got new stadiums to build buzz - which is why they are behind this to a large extent, trying to get more bodies into the venues they operate on behalf of the city (where have we seen this before?).



Regardless, MLSE isn't going to maximize its investment in TFC by playing in a smaller pond.