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    Default 2016 General TFC/MLS banter

    This thread is a catch-all for general banter not specifically related to transfer rumours.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    The Anglophile experiment at Houston seems to have finished - more because Coyle is not into it anymore and wants back into the UK scene.

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    maybe Houston is just too humid for the brits?

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    Well he wasn't a particularly good coach to begin with anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The Anglophile experiment at Houston seems to have finished - more because Coyle is not into it anymore and wants back into the UK scene.
    I was surprised at how much Coyle has moved around in his managerial career considering he was talking so much about long term projects at the beginning of his Houston stint. I figured he'd have a resume like Moyes, just at a lower level.

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    Frasier's name came up in banter about Houston. Unlikely to happen but he's on the "well if we need somebody with some but not a lot of experience" list.

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    On another note, US ratings for the NY derby are in:



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    Don't even know if thats a good thing with how much of a gong show the game itself was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    Well he wasn't a particularly good coach to begin with anyway
    True but I really thought he would beat the foreign coach hex. He was eager to coach in MLS, wasn't blindsided by the league oddities. The comments I've seen from Houston folk on reddit and such suggests the FO did him no favors regarding spending and should bear a fair amount of responsibility for things not working out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC View Post
    True but I really thought he would beat the foreign coach hex. He was eager to coach in MLS, wasn't blindsided by the league oddities. The comments I've seen from Houston folk on reddit and such suggests the FO did him no favors regarding spending and should bear a fair amount of responsibility for things not working out.
    Never seemed like a good fit in Houston to me.

    Wilmer Cabrerra tipped for the job.

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    I heard Warner's name mentioned in another thread and it made me wonder what happened to him, I don't recall where he ended up. Is he playing first team minutes with anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by anto7 View Post
    I heard Warner's name mentioned in another thread and it made me wonder what happened to him, I don't recall where he ended up. Is he playing first team minutes with anyone?
    IIRC he's more of a sub for Houston right now
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    IIRC he's more of a sub for Houston right now
    Totally forgot he ended up there. Can't see him getting too many starting minutes with them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pint View Post
    Don't even know if thats a good thing with how much of a gong show the game itself was.
    At least there were a lot of goals, one thing the casually interested sports fan thinks there isn't enough of in soccer.

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    So three points separate 2nd from 8th in the east with only NYFC playing 15 games and the rest of the pack at 13-14. This season looks wide open (except for Chicago).

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    Owen Coyle at Blackburn - back in the sort of place he belongs


    In other news, according to this schedule https://public.tableau.com/profile/f...ule/Dashboard1 if the US doesn't make the quarters, we get Bradley back with a week break.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 06-03-2016 at 07:01 PM.

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    File this one under "If you pay them peanuts, you get monkeys, so why are you paying them peanuts?" file

    http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-so...-violating-cba


    The average MLS Pro ref salary is $74K.

    PRo pay Kelly $150K because he came over as an assistant training manager for PRO at first and PRO/MLS just kept the same pay going as a ref.

    Union doesn't like that.

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    Max is $74K, that wouldn't be a bad average though.

    I'm not familiar with ref pay around the world but that seems like a very good income to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Max is $74K, that wouldn't be a bad average though.

    I'm not familiar with ref pay around the world but that seems like a very good income to me.
    When you're assigned a job, to which the results could mean people's jobs, careers, and reputation, it isn't much. That's before even touching the potential millions of $$$ that circulate the game.

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    So maybe we'll lose Alan Kelly, one of the few decent refs in the league? He's not going to work for $75k, and no travel expenses back to Ireland.

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    crazy question,

    why do refs need a union?

    some kind of labour hardship? is it the field turf?

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    crazy question,

    why do refs need a union?

    some kind of labour hardship? is it the field turf?
    Off the top of my head, things a union would be involved in:

    Who pays for travel to games?

    Who pays for the hotel overnight?

    Who pays for travel to training?

    Is there a per diem at training or on game days for food?

    How is referee compensation decided upon? Is it per game only or for a season with per game? Does FIFA status provide a bonus?

    Who pays for the kit and flags?

    How many days are mandated between games?

    *********

    During the last negotiations, the league tried to reduce the training pay for AR's. IIRC, most of them were getting approximately 35K a year to do that job.

    Think about that.

    An AR gets paid slightly more then half of what a rookie gets and has WAAAAY more involvement in how games finish then most rookies.

    The NFL types in MLS are used to NFL refs, who move up a ladder from high school through college but always do it as a secondary job, even when in the NFL. I can remember when they used to tell us what NFL refs did during the week (most were accountants and oil executives and marketing managers).

    And in gridiron, the 7 man teams overrule themselves, talk about plays immediately but have autonomy all the time to make the call. Soccer is a tad different due to the officiating being focused on one person with two assistants and a helper, the 3 of whom can be overruled.

    If you pay them crap, you won't get decent refs.

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    Agreed. The union is capable of good things in this circumstance.

    MLS loved to trot out the line "pro trains the refs we have nothing to do with it" for quite a while when the reality was: 1) training was non-existent 2) pay was shit 3) clarification on how the league wanted the rules interpreted was inconsistent at best.

    Good officiating isn't just sending out skilled individuals on the field - there is a lot of behind the scenes work that goes into it.

    It has gotten better but is still suboptimal in my opinion. Linesmen are basically useless given the amount of resources that are put into them. Referee pay is okay at this juncture but could still be better. Training / standardization has improved but they could take it further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Off the top of my head, things a union would be involved in:

    Who pays for travel to games?

    Who pays for the hotel overnight?

    Who pays for travel to training?

    Is there a per diem at training or on game days for food?

    How is referee compensation decided upon? Is it per game only or for a season with per game? Does FIFA status provide a bonus?

    Who pays for the kit and flags?

    How many days are mandated between games?

    *********

    During the last negotiations, the league tried to reduce the training pay for AR's. IIRC, most of them were getting approximately 35K a year to do that job.

    Think about that.

    An AR gets paid slightly more then half of what a rookie gets and has WAAAAY more involvement in how games finish then most rookies.

    The NFL types in MLS are used to NFL refs, who move up a ladder from high school through college but always do it as a secondary job, even when in the NFL. I can remember when they used to tell us what NFL refs did during the week (most were accountants and oil executives and marketing managers).

    And in gridiron, the 7 man teams overrule themselves, talk about plays immediately but have autonomy all the time to make the call. Soccer is a tad different due to the officiating being focused on one person with two assistants and a helper, the 3 of whom can be overruled.

    If you pay them crap, you won't get decent refs.
    but i negotiate all these thing on my own with my own company, travel, vacation, pay, sick days. I lay it all out in the interview.
    the union is gonna keep the shittier refs around longer

    couldnt really good refs at least use MLS as a spring board to higher paying leagues? then eventually MLS would hopefully get sick of losing all there refs and pay more
    Last edited by C.Ronaldo; 06-14-2016 at 12:59 PM.

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    I think you're comparing apples and oranges here. The league historically has looked at this as a cost centre and little else. They don't want to pay more, provide benefits or anything else.

    The union, to avoid their own employees being thrown under the bus, is actually moving the needle in the right direction. More good than bad I'd say.

    Whether you're Baldomero Toledo or Pierluigi Collina you depend on a lot of things other than your own judgement to call a proper game. MLS historically has epically failed in this department.

    The idea that the guys here just suck and need to be replaced is overblown. Very few fit that category, most are salvageable with proper support. Heck, the way the setup is now you get docked assignments if you're performance is poor. It's not like you're a Labatt's factory worker in the 70's getting drunk at lunch and telling the non-union supervisor to get stuffed if he says anything.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 06-14-2016 at 03:25 PM.

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    Really enjoying the Euros coverage. Wish they had pregame/half time analysis like this for TFC games.

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    lol check out LAG's winning goal in the open cup

    https://streamable.com/sw9j

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    I dunno how much CCL prize money was before, but it really must have been peanuts. Even just 500k for CCL winner is peanuts

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/0...-semifinalists
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Apparently NYCFC and Cosmos people got into it.

    USOC is whacky at this stage.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 06-15-2016 at 07:33 PM.

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    well no shit. Their fans are despicable people. It's not surprising they tend to overtly show it.

 

 

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