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  1. #31
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    i like JOZY..but we cant pay him 4.5 mil to be a good hold up striker and play maybe 20 games a year,why not get conner casey for 150 k to do that.lol

  2. #32
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    I have rarely seen the quality of play from a CF in this league that Altidore is giving us now. I truly people simply to not understand his contribution.

    I admit that he will have to score goals as the season goes along, but even without the goals you will not easily replace the quality of his play.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    I have rarely seen the quality of play from a CF in this league that Altidore is giving us now. I truly people simply to not understand his contribution.

    I admit that he will have to score goals as the season goes along, but even without the goals you will not easily replace the quality of his play.
    it is his hammy s not his skill.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    I have rarely seen the quality of play from a CF in this league that Altidore is giving us now. I truly people simply to not understand his contribution.

    I admit that he will have to score goals as the season goes along, but even without the goals you will not easily replace the quality of his play.

    I don't think it's a question of his talent or abilities but of worth. A mega DP can't be here for less than half the games..and when he is here he'd better score at some point or at the VERY LEAST have some decent attempts at goal, he can't even get a shot off.
    Last edited by shwade; 05-16-2016 at 07:44 PM.

  5. #35
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    We are so lucky he is a USMNT player as there is always some club looking to capitalize on the marketing money.

    I think he needs more time but the questions are arising.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    it is his hammy s not his skill.
    I agree. I don't think most people are questioning his contribution when he plays...the issue is he just doesn't look like he will be playing that much due to his nagging injuries. As much as I respect his skill if he is only playing for 4 weeks then off 8 weeks then playing 4 weeks then off 8 weeks that is not a good pattern for a DP. We need a DP that can play regularly. Not sure why people are still going on about his contribution at this point.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post
    I agree. I don't think most people are questioning his contribution when he plays...the issue is he just doesn't look like he will be playing that much due to his nagging injuries. As much as I respect his skill if he is only playing for 4 weeks then off 8 weeks then playing 4 weeks then off 8 weeks that is not a good pattern for a DP. We need a DP that can play regularly. Not sure why people are still going on about his contribution at this point.
    Yeah, I was defending him before too but this is too much now. Taking up a DP spot when you're injured so much really just is not possible in MLS. If he was healthy I'd say give him a chance until at least mid-season before making any long term decisions; but now I'd say shut him down for the year and find a replacement.

  8. #38
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    Lets also not forget he missed the start of the season with a hamstring tweak too.

    This is all after the training the entire offseason making sure he would slim down and reduce the likelihood of them happening.

    Some guys are just not going to avoid injury, this is a reoccurring issue that has plagued his entire career.

    The past is a good indicator of the future and I say we cut our losses as fast as possible.

    He is only getting older and each injury is going to severely impact his long term career.

    I like Altidore, but it is hard to not worry about his longevity considering he has had this problem forever.
    Last edited by Richard; 05-16-2016 at 08:53 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    I have rarely seen the quality of play from a CF in this league that Altidore is giving us now. I truly people simply to not understand his contribution.

    I admit that he will have to score goals as the season goes along, but even without the goals you will not easily replace the quality of his play.
    the issue is how many games he plays because of USMT duties plus hamstring. Plus every dollar he earns over average MLS CF (lets say $400k) is because he puts the ball in the net, if he isn't, he is not even worth $400k/yr. Thats why strikers get the big $.

  10. #40
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    If it looks like this is an endless cycle of shot confidence, minor injuries and lagging productivity, we can always buy him out in the offseason.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    I have rarely seen the quality of play from a CF in this league that Altidore is giving us now. I truly people simply to not understand his contribution.

    I admit that he will have to score goals as the season goes along, but even without the goals you will not easily replace the quality of his play.
    I think his problem is that he plays with zero individual confidence; he plays REALLY well at one specific role, i.e. holding things up and linking, OR pushing wide OR attacking the posts.

    He has huge potential; huge. That's always been the case. There's a reason he's scored so many highlight reel goals in his career.

    But he never seems to have gotten the selfish mentality required to be a goal scorer. I believe from how he carries himself and what he says that his European journey convinced him he has greater limitations than is really the case.

    I think he needs a sports psychiatrist more than a move. You can see the cogs moving when he plays. He has always thought too much instead of just taking his first instinctual step and trusting his training and practice.

    But he has huge potential, huge. I literally watched EVERY game he played at Sunderland waiting for it to develop, because of the potential to highlight MLS/NA talent. And I just saw him get more and more sheltered and shattered.

    Dude should have an offence built around the idea that he and Seba are both here to SCORE. He could bag twenty a year in this league if he ever had the confidence and, maybe, slimmed the fuck down.

  12. #42
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    My column in Tuesday's Sun on Jozy Altidore. http://www.torontosun.com/2016/05/16...opa-centenario

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    Try trading him to Atlanta. They have the money, start play next year, could like the idea of getting a big name USMNT player to kick start their first season.
    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    That's actually not a bad idea
    I think this is a good idea too. The question though is, would we have to do a JDG type of deal to pull this one off?
    Last edited by spe18; 05-16-2016 at 10:09 PM.

  14. #44
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    Is there anyway we can cut him from the squad and go after Agudelo from NE as a replacement? If we don't do something to replace him our most promising season so far will end up going the same way as our previous ones

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    Whether he is worth the money of not, who cares? He is worth the DP slot.

    I think he should maybe move because his marketing value is low here. Not because he is a stiff, which he is not.

    I am fine with the injury risk. That's sports.

    Dumping Gomez looking pretty stupid right this second....
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Woolfe View Post
    Is there anyway we can cut him from the squad and go after Agudelo from NE as a replacement? If we don't do something to replace him our most promising season so far will end up going the same way as our previous ones
    Mid-season, the only option (outside of a trade or transfer) is to waive him, like we had to do before with Gilberto, and we only receive cap/DP slot relief if someone within the league picks him and his contract up.

    There's more flexibility at the end of the year. If we decide to move on we could try trading him to Atlanta as I imagined. If there are no suitors within the league, we could always transfer him abroad, probably take a huge bath on the transfer fee but at least he'd be off the books completely and we'd be able to pocket a portion, however small, as allocation money. Last resort would be to use our one offseason buyout to get him off the cap, but the MLSE board would have to sign off on a buyout that large.

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    Comparables from last season:

    Altidore - 21 starts
    Dwyer - 28
    Wondolowski - 30
    Adi - 23 (10 sub appearances though, as Portland rotated strikers often)
    BWP - 33
    Villa - 29
    Kamara - 31

    Altidore is more or less on track for the same amount this year. I just can't justify a DP player missing 1/3 of the season, and I think it's clear this isn't a run of particularly bad luck so much as something to be expected. If he does miss that much time, he needs to be producing at an elite level, like Keane did last year on 22 starts. And it's even more important that he plays because he attracts guys off of Giovinco and we have no other hold up options. I just don't see an argument that he's worth keeping, which sucks because I genuinely like him and I would be sad to see him go.

    DPs are so important in this league it's silly. Look at the table from last year, every team below the red line either had ineffectual DPs or DPs that missed significant time due to injury. They either need to play often or be exceptional when playing occasionally. It doesn't appear as though Altidore can do either.
    Last edited by notthesun; 05-16-2016 at 11:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    My column in Tuesday's Sun on Jozy Altidore. http://www.torontosun.com/2016/05/16...opa-centenario
    who cares if he misses UMNT duty. Fuck the UMNT.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    My column in Tuesday's Sun on Jozy Altidore. http://www.torontosun.com/2016/05/16...opa-centenario
    From reading this article it seems everyone at the club has zero idea why he's so injury prone and they've had a lot of time to figure it out. They've got 6-8 weeks to figure it out or else they should consider cutting their losses, this is too bloody consistent and detrimental to the team. Kurt, you talk about how vital he is when he's healthy, so what happens when he's not? The squad is more or less structured around Bradley, Jozy and Seba and when Jozy is injured you lose a crucial part of our strategy and style and so we suffer for it and so far it's happened a lot.

  20. #50
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    When all said and done, Jozy will miss half the season this year. Unacceptable from a DP. I like Jozy just as much as the next guy, but when the league only allows for 3 players to be difference makers, then TFC has to do everything possible to have all 3 on the field.

    What are TFCs options now, is the question. No buy out available, and nobody will touch Jozy with these injury frequencies.

  21. #51
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    I'm pretty stunned he is going to be out for so long. 6-8 weeks isn't a tweek it's a full out hamstring pull. We all saw the play that caused it. There was no stretching or straining involved, it all looked very innocuous. Which makes me think at least part of the reason for this on-going hamstring issue is mental. Perhaps related to confidence. If this is the case we should be thinking of cutting our losses, as I fear this problem seems destined to haunt him his entire career.

    I sometimes think this team is truly jinxed. It's like BMO is built on an ancient burial ground or something. For the first time since our inception we finally looked like we genuinely had a team that could do something, and now we lose a DP for a substantial portion of the season. I hope we act in July to strengthen the attack and the season might still be salvageable, however if we stand pat and try to get by with Baboulli as Jozy's sole back up I fear it will end in tears once more

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    Mid-season, the only option (outside of a trade or transfer) is to waive him, like we had to do before with Gilberto, and we only receive cap/DP slot relief if someone within the league picks him and his contract up.

    There's more flexibility at the end of the year. If we decide to move on we could try trading him to Atlanta as I imagined. If there are no suitors within the league, we could always transfer him abroad, probably take a huge bath on the transfer fee but at least he'd be off the books completely and we'd be able to pocket a portion, however small, as allocation money. Last resort would be to use our one offseason buyout to get him off the cap, but the MLSE board would have to sign off on a buyout that large.
    IIRC there is another option – you put him on the long-term disabled list and that frees up the DP slot.

    Don't know if that's possible here, though.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post
    I agree. I don't think most people are questioning his contribution when he plays...
    You didn't read the post loss posts on the Vancouver game then.

  24. #54
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    I would give up a pick in order to see Jozy go but if DPs are difficult to move midseason, Jozy is near impossible. They'd be lucky to find a suitor in the offseason. I'd bet that ML$E has grown tired of that investment and might step in. Oh, what TFC could do with over $2m and a DP slot in the summer, my imagination is running wild. They need to find a way in which to appease Seba, that would be the ticket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo View Post
    I would give up a pick in order to see Jozy go but if DPs are difficult to move midseason, Jozy is near impossible. They'd be lucky to find a suitor in the offseason. I'd bet that ML$E has grown tired of that investment and might step in. Oh, what TFC could do with over $2m and a DP slot in the summer, my imagination is running wild. They need to find a way in which to appease Seba, that would be the ticket.
    Seba and Jozy are fairly close. I'm told Seba loves playing with Jozy, for obvious reasons...

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    When all said and done, Jozy will miss half the season this year. Unacceptable from a DP. I like Jozy just as much as the next guy, but when the league only allows for 3 players to be difference makers, then TFC has to do everything possible to have all 3 on the field.

    What are TFCs options now, is the question. No buy out available, and nobody will touch Jozy with these injury frequencies.
    As I agree, its disappointing and frustrating losing Jozy for 6 to 8 weeks, the bolded portion of your comment is factually incorrect. League doesn't "allow for 3 players to be difference makers" the game could be impacted by any of the 11 on the pitch at the time.

    Our last game v Van is the perfect example, the difference maker on the field wasn't any of the "3 allowed" by the league, it was Mannah, who made 82K last year... Not that wage to goal ratio really matters in this sport. Players have good games, generally when they are playing well, they are part of the difference on the pitch.

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    Things that could be done:

    1. Nothing and hope that the injuries don't keep reoccurring (kinda doubtful at this point)
    2. See if he will accept a re negotiated deal in the range of 800k and use TAM to buy him down. It's a pretty massive pay cut at this point
    3. See if a team will take him on (atlanta, orlando (if Larin is sold) and maybe NYRB could be interested)
    4. Buy him out in the offseason and move on with the DP slot.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    Seba and Jozy are fairly close. I'm told Seba loves playing with Jozy, for obvious reasons...

    Skill wise, they are moon's apart. Soccer is a business, and if a player doesn't live up to his expectations, they are gone regardless of the friendship.

    Obvious reasons? Lol there is none. It's lunacy to defend altidore at this point. Numbers speak louder than words.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    You didn't read the post loss posts on the Vancouver game then.
    Haha...you are right...I didn't.

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    Luke moore still avail?

 

 

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