… and close thread, ‘nough said.Originally Posted by OgtheDim
Lol. Just kidding.
Countdown to 3 seven paragraph posts in 5 4 3 2…
… and close thread, ‘nough said.
Lol. Just kidding.
Countdown to 3 seven paragraph posts in 5 4 3 2…
Legacy
Time... Definitely... Maybe...
Chants
He'll leave.
Take some shots at the club.
Club will leak some shots towards Jozy.
Two years later they'll make up and Jozy will get a statue.
If what's past is prologue, it sure does seem likely.
Although both parties, throughout December and January, until now, have been oddly muted on the matter; dare say respectful.
Be very very very quiet, it's Wabbit Season!
Club legend. The 2015-2019 version of Jozy will be remembered as one of the best strikers in league history.
Let's hope now that the grownups are in the room.
UK press less than flattering due to Jozy's poor stint there:
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/ot...s-25945893.amp
I watched a few Sunderland games at the time. I remember one move where he had the ball inside the box on the left, just outside of the six yard box. He went to cross, and I think his plant foot nudged the ball and he totally missed it. Went absolutely flying over his ass and out of play beside the goal. Just the worst example of everything that had gone wrong for him there. I was just shaking my head, and enjoyed laughing at him since he was American.
When I heard we were swapping Jermain Defoe for Jozy that moment was still stuck in my mind (I think it was about 6 weeks before). I thought it was an absolute disaster move for TFC, especially since I really liked JD, being someone who kinda followed Spurs when Norwich isn't in the PL (which Mighty DM will remind me is often). For sure I was all over the RPB boards with criticism and doom-saying. Jozy really won me over.
I didn't know what to think, but I sure remember people saying that.
The supporters there called him "Dozy Anti-score". That still cracks me up. They are so good at that stuff over there.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Some of the stuff they come up with is really clever unfortunately there was a crap ton of racist abuse hurled at Jozy from the Sunderland fans as well. When you combine that with all the racist crap he dealt with in Holland it’s easy to see why he has a chip on his shoulder.
It goes even deeper than that. He got into a spat with the club and teammates shortly after he joined Sunderland. The scuttlebutt was that the first-teamers were entitled and undisciplined, and when they went out partying together a night or two before a game, he refused to go with them.
That led to a bustup where they basically refused to acknowledge him on the pitch, which is why even when he was standing in five feet of open space they wouldn't cross or pass to him. It was a team playing as individuals anyway, but it basically limited his touches to junk.
Their manager also tried to get him more involved, perhaps unware of this, by playing him wide for a bunch of games, but he was basically set up to fail from the day he got there. I watched all their games at the time and he was just a ghost on the pitch.
Even when they benched him for a period, the guys getting time ahead of him did no better. I think their top scorer that year had five goals, or something like that. He managed to be the striker on two of the worst teams in Premier League history, so...
Stick an in-form Jozy Altidore -- the guy who scored 39 goals in Holland and a pair against Spain for the U.S. -- on a GOOD premiership team, or even a mediocre one, and there would be no debate that he isnt' even close to the worst premiership striker ever.
I know Altidore didn’t have a great stint in England but this is nothing more than the Brits putting one over on the Americans. I am sure there are plenty of other candidates for ”worst” ever.
Og posted this a ways back in this thread. I don't know how you can't love Jozy playing for your team when you see this.
Also this:
LEGEND. He did that carrying an injury in quite a bit of pain, a goal that won't be forgotten.
It looks like it's probably Sloane who Jozy embraces after the goal and may be the source of the high pitched screaming after the goal that one faintly hears above the crowd. Never saw confirmation of that though.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
^ I never know which big Jozy goal is my favourite. There are so many.
The one where single-handedly he broke Montreal down and passed to Ricketts to clinch the win in extra time is probably the winner - and he didn't even score it. But the emotion of that moment...
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
So many good memories of Jozy...
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Just listened to MLS Extra Time. They think Jozy could be a max TAM player, which certainly explains why TFC are hoping they can do a buyout at something less than 100 cents on the dollar.
They think the likeliest landing spots for him are Orlando, SKC and Colorado.
(Also they think he could maybe score 25 goals.)
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
From the other thread... question...
Regarding Jozy... curiosity cold killed this cat... for argument sake...
I get he's likely gone... I also get TFC and Jozy camps are likely leveraging each others positions...
Until any perceived or hard deadlines to maximize any outcomes...
I also get for insurance reasons and Jozy's injury history it would simply not be worth it...
However, if TFC is expecting him at camp and he does not show up, is there a MLS mechanism...
A precedent to limit or void his remaining contract earnings besides the understood off-season unilateral buy-out clause?
Likely very messy and unnecessary; MLSPA.
Just wondering.
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-21-2022 at 06:15 PM.
Quote taken from another thread... sort of, kind of, I would say highlights your point in a general sense about Jozy.
Just like Jozy didn't work out at Sunderland, Boyd didn't at TFC.
Didn't, doesn't, won't, mean that a player can't, couldn't, wouldn't contribute or re-emerge with a chance at another club.
I mean IIRC Jozy at NYRB, AZ, TFC & USMNT seemed to have had almost a goal per other game played production rate.
Close to 50%; not bad for a striker IMO.
I think his stint with The Black Cats was an obvious aberration and your offered insight would certainly explain it.
I think that some of disdain expressed at him while at SAFC and in the EPL and even now should be tempered in this context.
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-22-2022 at 08:48 AM.
Oh, without a doubt. But that's not really the English way when it comes to Americans. I grew up there and there's both a pervasive cultural fascination with its "bigness" -- freedom, jingoism, metropolises etc -- and an utter contempt for its people as stupid, arrogant and loud.
Much of this I think stems from the Second World War and the post-war period. Britons were generally superior in their attitudes due to ruling much of the colonial globe for three centuries and when America was needed to win the war, they got rather tired of hearing "without our help you'd all be speaking German" from a country that stayed out of it -- and where 40% of the polled population supported Hitler -- until absolutely necessary.
So they love American things, but can't stand Americans. The notion that one might start as a striker on a Premiership team is pretty anathema to them. Unless the player pulls of a Dempsey or McBride and starts scoring right away, they're going to go hammer and tongs at him. Add in that he's African American and there's deep, pervasive racism in England and you had a recipe for wanting him to fail from the second he got there.
Also after Kezman and a few others -- and Jozy's equally unsuccessful Hull loan -- there was deep suspicion that the Eredivisie doesn't produce strikers good enough for the Premier League.
Jozy also had problems in his personal life while he was at Sunderland. He has talked about that before.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Jozy’s always been a big fish small pond, kind of guy. I don’t buy the “circumstancial” shit at Sunderland he was always poor in big leagues.
Top 5 Leagues: 3 Goals, 79 Games
MLS/Turkey/Holland: 117 Goals, 254 Games
I am beginning to think you don’t rate Jozy…
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
He played for HULL and SUNDERLAND, two of the worst teams in the last thirty years of the English top flight. Both played anti-football where every man was largely for himself. It's not representative of his potential.
There are a lot of strikers who aren't world class but still put in good numbers in the Premier League and La Liga because they're on good teams that create chances for them. He didn't get that luxury.
It's simplistic to point at the league and say "that was the only reason" and ignore who he was playing for.
Last edited by jloome; 01-22-2022 at 01:51 PM.
Jozy at Sunderland: 1 Goal, 42 Matches
Defoe at Sunderland: 34 Goals, 87 Matches
Defoe is the 15th leading scorer all time in the Premiership. He WAS world-class. I watched him at Sunderland and he created most of his own goals with speed, beating backlines on the break.
Jozy is not Jermain Defoe. And Defoe went on to score more goals after that at Rangers. He's 39 and there's a bidding war on for him between Sunderland and Cambridge now to keep playing in League One.
If Defoe had settled here and stayed healthy, he'd have scored 20 a year in his sleep.
I'm NOT saying Jozy was a world-class player but he was by no means the worst striker ever in the Premiership.
Last edited by jloome; 01-22-2022 at 05:50 PM.
Here's all of Defoe's goals for Sunderland. Got some service for sure, but he created a lot of those goals out of nothing himself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFcKr5T09CI
Maybe... Premiership one goal wonder, perennial striker Simon Cox; WBA V Spurs?
Its Sunday = Funday; Kidding... I am starting to like the Internet!
Framed as you have... mathematically... of course it seems obvious and undeniable...
On the flip-side...
I think, and believe jloome may also be suggesting, it is a little more nuanced then that... it is the little things, of time and place...
...coaches and systems... off and on-field player on goings, etc. ...
Defoe on loan 00-01 at AFC Bournemouth: 18Gls w/ 29Apps --- Defoe 17-20 at AFC Bournemouth: 4Gls w/ 28Apps.
Defoe on loan 19-20 at Rangers: 21Gls w/ 37Apps --- Defoe 20-22 at Rangers: 4Gls w/ 17Apps.
Nobody has had a more hard to sum up, vexing career than Jozy.
No escaping that 1 goal in 42 games at Sunderland is pretty tough.
No escaping that scoring 30+ goals in a single season in the Netherlands is incredible, I am not sure anyone has done that since he did.
No escaping that he has been brutally plagued by injuries.
Also no escaping that you can make any list of premiere all time MLS strikers you want, Keane, Donovan, BWP, Villa, Ibra, Wondo, Martinez, help yourself... and none will come close to doing what Jozy did starting post season 2016, through CCL 2018.
Last edited by ensco; 01-22-2022 at 03:21 PM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
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