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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    So there it is. Three years, that is interesting. Cap hit management, whatever, that is a major commitment from a team that already had one of the best striker setups in MLS. That surprises me more than seeing him move to play on turf.

    There is certainly risk in this but “Arena is making an obvious mistake” regarding injury risk or turf or whatever, wouldn’t be my take. We had issues with the grass and with our medical setup here for all the time he was here. (We may well still do.) We don’t really know what his medical situation is, and there is a pretty good chance that Arena has a better handle on that than we do.

    Jozy is a generational talent and a warrior, albeit snakebit with injuries. I really think he is a special player. I wish him well in any game in which TFC or Canada is not involved… and especially against Montreal (you know he will never stop scoring on them)

    It was time for him to go but I wish this had ended differently.

    Good night all.
    A possible tell tale sign, likely indicative or indicting... and the would be final nail in that coffin; TFC has had a med-staff problem.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 02-04-2022 at 05:48 PM.

  2. #422
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    Did they seriously take on the remaining contract? Lol. Insert start the car Ikea meme here.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Did they seriously take on the remaining contract? Lol. Insert start the car Ikea meme here.

    I don't think we have seen any terms yet.... or at least i haven't seen them.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Did they seriously take on the remaining contract? Lol. Insert start the car Ikea meme here.
    Everything I've seen is that the deal is contingent on the TFC buyout. So no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Did they seriously take on the remaining contract? Lol. Insert start the car Ikea meme here.
    I posted this in the roster thread, but it's fitting here too. ESPN says we're only responsible for the portion of the contract that NER isn't paying. So, assuming Jozy's compensation remains at $3.6M and they pay him $1M this season, we are only on the hook for $2.6M. None of which goes against are salary budget as we're using the buyout.
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-t...lution-sources

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    Now that he's gone, I'll always remember him for his highs.

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    It was time and needed to happen, I hate that he will be a Rev but I really hope most of all that he has a good run, free of controversy and gets to finish his career on a positive note.

    Too bad it couldn't stay 2017 forever

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    I posted this in the roster thread, but it's fitting here too. ESPN says we're only responsible for the portion of the contract that NER isn't paying. So, assuming Jozy's compensation remains at $3.6M and they pay him $1M this season, we are only on the hook for $2.6M. None of which goes against are salary budget as we're using the buyout.
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-t...lution-sources
    Zero effect on the cap but helps pay for Insigne (MLSE's portion).


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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Zero effect on the cap but helps pay for Insigne (MLSE's portion).
    I am glad these details are out, because it means nobody was disrespecting anybody. Either way. Everyone was quietly working towards a reasonable outcome.

    Sometimes silence means, we just don’t know.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I don't think we have seen any terms yet.... or at least i haven't seen them.


    Athletic reported 3 years

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Not by me. We all get it wrong a lot. I thought it was insane to believe TFC were serious about Insigne. Most of us are only right about half the time. Besides, Jozy really could just flame out in NE.

    What I really didn’t like, and don’t like, are the Jozy posts that I believe were insulting to him, shot through with malice. I hope that stops now.
    Amen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuushalinsky View Post
    Now that he's gone, I'll always remember him for his highs.
    For sure. He was easily the best player in MLS in consecutive playoffs in 2016 and 2017. A monster in big games and big moments. I've never shook off the feeling that he would've done something with those last 10 minutes when he had to come off injured in the CCL final.

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    I missed this yesterday…

    There was competition. SKC was seriously in on him also.

    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Jozy's comments from the NE presser about the problems with TFC starting in 2020 are interesting to me.

    Recall that MLS did not have language that protected it during the pandemic, it owed full salaries even when games weren’t played, and it locked the players out to “fix” that. This involved threatening to or actually taking away the players' health coverage. It was really ugly.

    I thought the league's handling of the whole thing was reprehensible (not arguing there wasn’t a big problem that needed to be addressed) and thought the whole bubble thing was wrong too, they endangered the players with that, and I personally chose not to watch a single game after the pandemic started (other than the TFC playoff game). Everything about what happened seemed morally wrong (to me). I didn’t post here for months.

    I will be interested to learn what Jozy is talking about exactly. I never saw it as a TFC problem, I thought it was a league wide thing. But I can imagine Curtis, a product of the league office then and always, handling these issues badly, given what we know about how he handled the tough situations that we do know about.

    Re Jozy's departure: I think BB just decided to move on from every player that wasn’t 100% committed, just like he said, Jozy just had too much scar tissue, and BB clearly has carte blanche to clean up the Manning/Curtis errors, no matter what it costs (and this one cost an absolute ton!)
    Last edited by ensco; 02-16-2022 at 06:13 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  15. #435
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    He cited a difference in moral direction. He cited the boycott game that we played against Montreal as an example, saying TFC went back on its agreement with Montreal and Thierry Henry to respect it and play the game later, and that it was "four or five" things like that in recent years that changed his sentiment towards the club.

    Also said that stuff didn't happen in the early years here.

    Clash of personalities, basically. But he wore the decision to put off foot surgery for three years and that it was a bad move.

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    Jozy was fantastic. Here if you wan to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qsCsSKgwF8

    Key takeaway - he broke his ankle v Columbus but played on because winning for TFC was more important, not getting needed surgery until 3 years later.

    Its time to put the "Jozy is lazy and thats why he gets hurt" crap to rest. He played on through an injury and (unwisely for him and for the club) didn't get surgery -IE he wanted it too much. A complicated guy indeed, an incredible goal scorer, and a legend at TFC. Enough.
    Last edited by MightyDM; 02-17-2022 at 01:00 AM.

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    Several takeaways already highlighted by others.
    Mine... after watching it, I decided to instead also listen to the interview.
    Around 14:30 Jozy talks about his role for Bruce and at NER.
    At this point Jozy mentions his (TFC/MLS) contract; the buy out.
    Is he offering insight about such workings?
    IIUC, he seems to indicate/state that the contract carried over. Is this understanding correct or has he simply misspoken?
    That even though he was bought out by TFC, the contract is not really or in its entirety voided/rewritten/renegotiated.
    Is anyone able to elaborate on and explain this to me?
    I suspect it may have to do with him moving/staying within the league; MLS franchisee business/contract structure.
    Still, the contract not being voided/rewritten/renegotiated but carried over seems to be another odd MLS operations nuance.
    Perhaps to be just noted or maybe further explored and discussed?
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 02-17-2022 at 03:42 AM.

  18. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Jozy was fantastic. Here if you wan to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qsCsSKgwF8

    Key takeaway - he broke his ankle v Columbus but played on because winning for TFC was more important, not getting needed surgery until 3 years later.

    Its time to put the "Jozy is lazy and thats why he gets hurt" crap to rest. He played on through an injury and (unwisely for him and for the club) didn't get surgery -IE he wanted it too much. A complicated guy indeed, an incredible goal scorer, and a legend at TFC. Enough.
    Yeah right on.

    There's been a couple of other strains of criticism of Jozy, which is that his injuries are because (1) he rehabs on his own and ignores team medical advice, and (2) he “over bulks up” or some such.

    As to part 1, given the number of questions most everyone here had about our failings on the medical side, easy to understand. Besides, all stars in every sport do this.

    Part 2, I found that just baseless, insulting and annoying. Bruce Arena just invested $5M, you think he thinks that for one second? Why wasn’t Jozy allowed to be unlucky? God that still makes me mad.

    The guy was a lightening rod for criticism because he spoke his mind. It attracted all kinds of malicious innuendo. It was no way to treat a player of that stature.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-17-2022 at 09:35 AM.
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    There are a lot of assumptions made on this board that injury and fitness are the same thing. They are related of course, but absolutely not the same thing. I know a lot of runners who are incredibly fit and would blow the pants off 99% of people, but are also often injured. With Jozy it was even worse because his size was equated with lack of fitness, when in fact his size and smarts in using it was what made him almost impossible to play against. And that damn video of him watching his wife work out has gotten way too much mileage in "proving" Jozy was lazy and didn't work on his fitness.

    This is all to say, the above posts are bang on.

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Yeah right on.

    There's been a couple of other strains of criticism of Jozy, which is that his injuries are because (1) he rehabs on his own and ignores team medical advice, and (2) he “over bulks up” or some such.

    As to part 1, given the number of questions most everyone here had about our failings on the medical side, easy to understand. Besides, all stars in every sport do this.

    Part 2, I found that just baseless, insulting and annoying. Bruce Arena just invested $5M, you think he thinks that for one second? Why wasn’t Jozy allowed to be unlucky? God that still makes me mad.

    The guy was a lightening rod for criticism because he spoke his mind. It attracted all kinds of malicious innuendo. It was no way to treat a player of that stature.
    I don't understand why you find it insulting. It's not baseless at all. There is plenty of evidence to support that his size is one of the contributing factors to his repeated lower body muscle injuries. For some reason you refuse to even consider it. Probably because it's coming from me and you can't put your ego aside to even acknowledge it.

    https://www.torontofc.ca/news/altido...-entering-2016

    Look at picture of him toward the end of 2016 and all of 2017 - his upper body is far leaner and even his movement on the field was far more explosive. he was carrying less weight. Compare that to late 2018, 2019, 2020, Especially after the trainer incident he started bulking up again:

    https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2...d-trainer.html

    He's almost 20lbs heavier today (aprox 79kg) than he was in 2017 (aprox 72kg) - that's 20lbs of muscle. At an elite level, that amount of weight has major effects the body

    Sure he had broken bone injury - but he's had plenty of muscle injury's in addition to that.

    leaner Jozy = less injured Jozy. The two are related.
    Last edited by jabbronies; 02-17-2022 at 10:54 AM.

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    Hey bud, help me here. How do I answer given you posted this one page earlier?

    Just having fun with you.

    Serious point: I see you have been here a long time. I would say anyone with that kind of history has the right to a big opinion. I am certain we would agree on many things. Re your bolded bit, seriously, it’s not true. We will meet someday and get along.

    Re why it’s insulting- I agree your view is maybe possible, but saying it as “fact” is really wrong and pretty unfair. Jozy has a weird physique. I just think other guys get injured a lot and don’t get near the stick he did, or get “blamed” for it. Re the weight stuff, I’d say nobody here really knows. I’d say Bruce Arena is providing 5 million reasons why you might be wrong.

    I think you are wrong on this - that’s all. Not looking for a dust up, and you are not the only one who has said it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    [moderator edit]

    You are right, we don't know Jozy's current situation health wise, but history seemed to have constantly repeated itself when it comes to his fitness over the past 3 years, what makes you think things have changed now?

    Since you quoted me when you say "people viscerally don't rate him" I can only assume you are lumping me into that category.
    I rate Jozy's skill and his ability to compete in MLS, - I just don't rate his health and fitness. And that's the issue. it's always been the issue.

    The only time he's played a full season without major disruption due to injury was in 2017. Every other year he's missed significant time due to injury and recovery and takes longer and longer with each injury to ramp back up to speed.

    I'm not going to quote anything you wrote in red because well, I don't agree with most of what you write on this board. Not even that we have differing opinions that I'm not open to listen to - I just think you are more interested in playing virtual FO than talking about footy.

    So carry on with your open letters, but please keep me out of your reply's
    Last edited by ensco; 02-17-2022 at 11:28 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  22. #442
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    ^Where are we meeting March 5th for that beer!! Outside on any patio ... I'm in. Don't care what the weather is.

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    Haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast yet. But just wondering if he knew he required surgery why would he put it off for so many years and play on it? He had the surgery done and he was out for what maybe 6 weeks and back on the field afterwards..why not just do it and get it over with when it happened rather than put yourself through that, especially knowing it could further ruin your career. Seems like an odd choice to put it off. I mean good on him for fighting through all of it and playing..but would he have been better off to do it right away and recover, obviously we wont know. But maybe we see him on the field more often now than the last few seasons because he has finally gotten the surgery done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Hey bud, help me here. How do I answer given you posted this one page earlier?
    Just having fun with you.
    Serious point: I see you have been here a long time. I would say anyone with that kind of history has the right to a big opinion. I am certain we would agree on many things.
    Re your bolded bit, seriously, it’s not true. We will meet someday and get along. I think you are wrong on this - that’s all. Not looking for a dust up, and you are not the only one who has said it.
    Got it. I'm going to leave this one alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I agree your view is possible, but saying it as “fact” is really wrong and pretty unfair. Jozy has a weird physique. I just think other guys get injured a lot and don’t get near the stick he did, or get “blamed” for it. Re the weight stuff, I’d say nobody here really knows. I’d say Bruce Arena is providing 5 million reasons why you might be wrong.
    I never said it was fact. I'm just suggesting that it is very likely and highly plausible reason why he keeps getting muscle injuries. These injuries don't happen "just because". They have very tangible reasons for happening. He's not a weak person. His body isn't fragile. he shouldn't be breaking down like this all the time. The guy is a tank. He's a physically fit and is one of the strongest guys in MLS.

    I don't buy into the "he's lazy" narrative. He works hard. and you can see it in his physique. That doesn't come from being lazy. I just think he's one of those guys who overdoes it. He'll workout all day if he could and just keep getting bigger and bigger because he has that kind of drive in him. I've seen guys do this. They start off getting fit, then they get an adrenaline rush to keep going.
    And I think he's one of those guys. He does it to a detriment to his ability to staying healthy while playing soccer.

    You can be big and play soccer, you just have to ensure you are targeting the right parts of your body so that specific tendons and muscles have the support they need. I don't think he's in tune with that. Seba's trainer was. he understood Jozy and his body needs.

    RE: Bruce providing $5 million reasons why I might be wrong? This, IMO, proves nothing. We don't know the full details of the contract - It's reported as a MAX TAM deal and There's a good chance TFC are paying a portion of this as part of the buyout. So he's not occupying a DP slot - which is the issue reasonable thinking people had with him. You don't pay DP money to a guy who only plays 1/2 a season. Bruce Arena got a deal on Jozy and he took it. he's smart for doing that.

    Jozy being on NER vs TFC provide us with very different scenarios and hard to compare

    Arena paid - whatever it was - because he felt he could keep Jozy healthy enough to contribute at the level most of know he can contribute at.
    Arena has a good attack and doesn't need Jozy starting every game. TFC only had Jozy and needed him to start every game.
    Arena isn't paying Jozy DP money, so not only does he have Jozy, but he still has 3 DP slots he can fill.

    Anyways. That's my rant on this. You + some others seem hung up on a small group who think Jozy doesn't have the ability to be a game changer. When the real issue has always been the health of a player who is only able to play 1/2 a season and is occupying the most lucrative and coveted spot on the roster. everything else "lazy, not motivated, not good enough etc" are just emotional triggers.
    Last edited by jabbronies; 02-17-2022 at 11:54 AM.

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    Sports is littered with countless cases of managers thinking they have the solution to turn a player around.

    If he miraculously ends up not being injured you have to wonder what sort quack medical professionals TFC is hiring. Who knows though, we will never get the full picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Got it. I'm going to leave this one alone.



    I never said it was fact. I'm just suggesting that it is very likely and highly plausible reason why he keeps getting muscle injuries. These injuries don't happen "just because". They have very tangible reasons for happening. He's not a weak person. His body isn't fragile. he shouldn't be breaking down like this all the time. The guy is a tank. He's a physically fit and is one of the strongest guys in MLS.

    I don't buy into the "he's lazy" narrative. He works hard. and you can see it in his physique. That doesn't come from being lazy. I just think he's one of those guys who overdoes it. He'll workout all day if he could and just keep getting bigger and bigger because he has that kind of drive in him. I've seen guys do this. They start off getting fit, then they get an adrenaline rush to keep going.
    And I think he's one of those guys. He does it to a detriment to his ability to staying healthy while playing soccer.

    You can be big and play soccer, you just have to ensure you are targeting the right parts of your body so that specific tendons and muscles have the support they need. I don't think he's in tune with that. Seba's trainer was. he understood Jozy and his body needs.

    RE: Bruce providing $5 million reasons why I might be wrong? This, IMO, proves nothing. We don't know the full details of the contract - It's reported as a MAX TAM deal and There's a good chance TFC are paying a portion of this as part of the buyout. So he's not occupying a DP slot - which is the issue reasonable thinking people had with him. You don't pay DP money to a guy who only plays 1/2 a season. Bruce Arena got a deal on Jozy and he took it. he's smart for doing that.

    Jozy being on NER vs TFC provide us with very different scenarios and hard to compare

    Arena paid - whatever it was - because he felt he could keep Jozy healthy enough to contribute at the level most of know he can contribute at.
    Arena has a good attack and doesn't need Jozy starting every game. TFC only had Jozy and needed him to start every game.
    Arena isn't paying Jozy DP money, so not only does he have Jozy, but he still has 3 DP slots he can fill.

    Anyways. That's my rant on this. You + some others seem hung up on a small group who think Jozy doesn't have the ability to be a game changer. When the real issue has always been the health of a player who is only able to play 1/2 a season and is occupying the most lucrative and coveted spot on the roster. everything else "lazy, not motivated, not good enough etc" are just emotional triggers.
    He needs Adama Traore's trainer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    He needs Adama Traore's trainer!
    My exact thoughts. Apparently he doesn't do weights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Got it. I'm going to leave this one alone.



    I never said it was fact. I'm just suggesting that it is very likely and highly plausible reason why he keeps getting muscle injuries. These injuries don't happen "just because". They have very tangible reasons for happening. He's not a weak person. His body isn't fragile. he shouldn't be breaking down like this all the time. The guy is a tank. He's a physically fit and is one of the strongest guys in MLS.

    I don't buy into the "he's lazy" narrative. He works hard. and you can see it in his physique. That doesn't come from being lazy. I just think he's one of those guys who overdoes it. He'll workout all day if he could and just keep getting bigger and bigger because he has that kind of drive in him. I've seen guys do this. They start off getting fit, then they get an adrenaline rush to keep going.
    And I think he's one of those guys. He does it to a detriment to his ability to staying healthy while playing soccer.

    You can be big and play soccer, you just have to ensure you are targeting the right parts of your body so that specific tendons and muscles have the support they need. I don't think he's in tune with that. Seba's trainer was. he understood Jozy and his body needs.

    RE: Bruce providing $5 million reasons why I might be wrong? This, IMO, proves nothing. We don't know the full details of the contract - It's reported as a MAX TAM deal and There's a good chance TFC are paying a portion of this as part of the buyout. So he's not occupying a DP slot - which is the issue reasonable thinking people had with him. You don't pay DP money to a guy who only plays 1/2 a season. Bruce Arena got a deal on Jozy and he took it. he's smart for doing that.

    Jozy being on NER vs TFC provide us with very different scenarios and hard to compare

    Arena paid - whatever it was - because he felt he could keep Jozy healthy enough to contribute at the level most of know he can contribute at.
    Arena has a good attack and doesn't need Jozy starting every game. TFC only had Jozy and needed him to start every game.
    Arena isn't paying Jozy DP money, so not only does he have Jozy, but he still has 3 DP slots he can fill.

    Anyways. That's my rant on this. You + some others seem hung up on a small group who think Jozy doesn't have the ability to be a game changer. When the real issue has always been the health of a player who is only able to play 1/2 a season and is occupying the most lucrative and coveted spot on the roster. everything else "lazy, not motivated, not good enough etc" are just emotional triggers.
    I’m hung up on the group who constantly trash him and say he is lazy etc. You aren’t part of that but given his service to this club I respond every time, because there is no evidence of it and it’s done extremely disrespectfully.

    Your point about his bulking up is not expressed that way (in fact you acknowledge that overtraining is a result of too much intensity, the exact opposite) and is done respectfully. We may find out more in the Future about whether you are right.

    I do disagree with you about his contract though. TFC had no choice whatsoever but to resign him when they did. That it turned out problematic is irrelevant. But they put themselves in that position with their terrible mismanagement of the Seba and VV situations.

  29. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Sports is littered with countless cases of managers thinking they have the solution to turn a player around.

    If he miraculously ends up not being injured you have to wonder what sort quack medical professionals TFC is hiring. Who knows though, we will never get the full picture.
    True. But it is Bruce Arena and he knows Jozy well.

  30. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Sports is littered with countless cases of managers thinking they have the solution to turn a player around.

    If he miraculously ends up not being injured you have to wonder what sort quack medical professionals TFC is hiring. Who knows though, we will never get the full picture.
    Yes, but with our luck... every so often...
    Ahem, Richie Laryea?

 

 

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