I second this. Has to score, but holdup play was top notch last game.Originally Posted by ensco
Think the new fitness regiment has helped him in this regard.
I second this. Has to score, but holdup play was top notch last game.
Think the new fitness regiment has helped him in this regard.
Lol...
Has Jozy been good? Yes. Has Jozy been 5M good? No, at that point you are paid to score.
The thing with this conversation like with the stadium is it's okay to be critical of certain aspects while still enjoying others. Far too often it seams like any amount of criticism amount to someone hating on something while they were simply point one part out.
Jozy was good saturday even though he didn't score but it is very tough to call a DP striker good over a long period if they are not scoring not matter how well rounded a game they play.
For Jozy to earn his contract he needs to be scoring 12-15 goals but that doesn't mean he is a complete waste if he doesn't, it's just that is the expectation when you make that kind of money.
he scored 13 last year and people still called him a waste.
It's a small sample size for Jozy right now. The key is that he's been great in build up play and getting in the right positions to score. He's always been a great finisher - the goals will start falling soon if he keeps playing the same way he has been.
Well - Dichio scored 14 goals in 59 games, Altidore has 13 in 28.
You will always have a small percentage that will no like him for one reason or another. He has done well but still room for improvement to truly be worth the salary.
Like a certain Daniele Salvatore Dichio perhaps? I am not sure if you have eve seen that guy play?
I'd like to see that stat on a goals per 90 minutes played basis. I bet it is a lot closer than that. Dichio was a sub, and was subbed out, a lot.
Also Dichio's work as a target man, the flick ons, whether with his head or his foot, the little side foot passes in traffic, were truly sublime. I don't know if videos of that live on in some dark corner of youtube somewhere, but those who were there know what I mean.
Go Jozy, though - he will work through it I think/hope.
Last edited by ensco; 05-09-2016 at 02:15 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Frankly, I don't care what a player's stats end up being, if the team as whole is winning, and the player is playing his role.
Same criticism that Jozy is getting is also going to Bradley. You'd think Bradley should be getting like 10 goals, 10 assists every year the amount of money he's making.
I think tying stats into a player's production is ultimately counterproductive. In the end, what matters is if the team is winning or not.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Dichio: 1 goal every 241 mins
Altidore: 1 goal every 174 mins (in TFC uniform)
http://www.mlssoccer.com/players/danny-dichio
http://www.mlssoccer.com/players/jozy-altidore
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Hey - I tried to troll this into a Dichio thread first! Off my cloud!
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
As if there won't be enough Dichio nostalgia this week with it being Dichio night on Saturday.
Thanks you. Well said.
Thanks. I thought Dichio was actually better than that overall - he slowed down a bit that last year.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Moderator
Like the OP and others here, Altidore's lack of goal-scoring hasn't really bothered me. Maybe it's because we're currently second in the East and...you know, WINING GAMES! I mean, I get the frustration and normally agree that when you bring in a DP striker, you expect him to bag more than his fair share of goals. Honestly, with the way we're playing now, I wouldn't want to change things up too much, so I'd say keep playing him as Vanney is right now and hope for a more productive game in the near future from him.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
I was gonna say it, but I edited it out
Dichio's target man play was great and the little flicks and touches were a joy to watch. Jozy brings a different set of skills to the table. He can do things with his dribbling and explosiveness that Danny couldn't.
Bang on. If the team is winning and the guys making the big bucks are making large contributions to it, that's what matters. Goals and assists are only part of that picture.
I'm always up for some Dichio nostalgia
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
^ There should be Dichio nostalgia as long as there is football played in Toronto.
The chemistry is working well and we are winning games. I actually think Jozy is helping and I don't care to think about salary stuff as long as the team is doing great. He could score one goal the whole season for all I care as long as we win the cup!
I do think he will start scoring though. Last game was strange. I was happy for Endoh getting that goal but there seemed to be a couple other times when he got in the way of where Jozy was trying to be which caused us to miss a good chance. He is young though so I'm sure Vanney and leaders like Bradley can let him realize his role more. (whoops I just re-read the previous page and see I was beaten to this point twice already lol)
I want to see him start scoring, but where the big money players really should be different is when they are in a slump like this, they aren't completely useless. Altidore while not scoring is still making a huge contribution to our success. So while I don't like it and expect him to score, I can live with it thanks to everything else he's doing.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Jozy Jozy
Jozy Jozy Jozy Altidore.
He's doing well. He's such a threat. Defenders don't know what to do with our attackers.
One wonders why other people are scoring..... Hmmmmmmm......
Last edited by Brooker; 05-09-2016 at 07:52 PM.
I would prefer he creates space for others than scores. It's a more pure offence with a target man. A target man who is expected to score gets solved, quick.
Hes earning his money now.
do you remember what he was playing with?
The 09 team was pretty stacked in terms of offence. Too bad Dichio didn't get the mins to take full advantage
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
The first two seasons we were coached by Mo; no one got service. I don't think you can compare Altidore's lack of production in a team as good as the one we have now with that mess back then.
Look, I said it at the end of last season: Altidore is only role-playing as a target man. He's not active enough to be an effective striker; he doesn't get into the box enough, he doesn't demand the ball enough. Yes, his interplay right now is really good, but his interplay is always really good.
Last year, he had the fewest shots of any DP forward in the league, despite his 13 goals, and I said that if he repeated that with his typical career efficacy, we could as easily see a season where he scores five-to-seven as one where he scores 12-15. And right now I think that's what we're seeing. For a $4M-plus striker, that's ridiculous to me.
No, he's not playing well enough. Count me as the dissenting voice, but in this league, you need a DP striker who scores goals as well. He has to start trying to create some chances for himself rather than just being Seba's linchpin.
If you thought he was inactive last Saturday, well...I got no answer to that because its so profoundly wrong.
^ I respect Jloome's opinion, but yeah, he was anything but inactive on Saturday.
I do believe, from what I am seeing that he will score 12-15 this year.
Inactive as a striker. Very active as a target man. But he's always very active as a target man. We need two forwards who score regularly. If he only gets 25-30 shots off a season, we can't rely on him being productive as the number two. Jozy Altidore being 18 yards from goal most of the time and getting maybe one shot a game isn't active enough. He needs to be involved in goal scoring more often.
In fact, this was basically his entire problem at Sunderland (that and a shit team.)
EDIT: In fact, I invite you all to look at his opta stats. They were not impressive.
Some highlights:
Aerial duels, 1 for 6
Tackles 2 of 3
Passes 23 of 36 (63%)
Shots: 1 of 2 on target
Chances created: 0
Five fouls committed, four suffered.
Statistically, he had a pretty shit game for a DP striker.
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/statsz...wrapper-anchor
Last edited by jloome; 05-10-2016 at 02:42 PM.
quickly I can point out some fault with the data...The ball he slipped to Giovinco was not a chance because Giovinco was not assessed a shot because he missed his chip... gotta scrub the data against an eye test too. Four fouls suffered is pretty good for a striker - pass completion is never going to be high if you are receiving balls so high in the opposing end - tackle ratio is pretty good for a striker - aerial duals is the only stat that jumps out as poor, especially for a target striker, but he's never been as beastly in the air as he should be - he's much better at holding up with feet
The missed shot on the cross was bad, should have hit the net there - I will agree that his finishing is not as sharp as it should be. Overall, there are not many chances created, so he needs to convert what few he gets. He did it before, not sure why it's not happening now.
Last edited by Red I; 05-10-2016 at 02:57 PM.
There is no such position as a pure striker. He's either active or not. He was all over the pitch which is what a #2 striker playing with Giovinco is going to be like playing in our system where the strikers NEED to get around defensively.
He's as active as David Villa, who is the poster boy for active strikers in this league.
There is such thing as a striker role, and there is such a thing as a target man role. Right now, he's only fulfilling one. Try to term it any way you want, the stats speak for themselves. Even conceding when they miss things like close chances that aren't on target, he's not creating much of a threat for us, and we need more than one key goalscorer.
'As active as David Villa'; This is silly. He plays an entirely different role. Villa is a goal scorer of the first order. I don't care if Jozy ever becomes that, but he has to present a threat by being more active in the box, or he's not worth what the team is paying him.
And he didn't "get around defensively". He lost more challenges than he won and had two tackles.
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