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  1. #1801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    The spending is on three players, none of who are the best anymore in their position league - wise. Vanney deserves a tonne of credit.
    Then why are we doing it? Wasting resources isn't an excuse. Besides which we still have tam spend and DPs that are the envy of all bar two teams right now. You cannot set the target as "be in the top 60% of your conference" with a budget that's top two or three in the entire league

    Looking at our spend to points earned in Vanneys time and the bottom line is either our upper management is misspending our money on DPs that aren't doing enough for how much were spending or we have a coach that is hugely under performing with an almost cheating level advantage over the rest of the league. Or both. But one of them has to be true.
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 09-22-2019 at 03:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Then why are we doing it? Wasting resources isn't an excuse. Besides which we still have tam spend and DPs that are the envy of all bar two teams right now.
    You haven't been following media commentary on "best MLS players." Bradley and Altidore aren't even top five for their positions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    You haven't been following media commentary on "best MLS players." Bradley and Altidore aren't even top five for their positions.
    Then that's a problem of poor decision making on reupping Altidore at the price we paid, nobody put a gun to our head on it

    Bottom line, if a team that has resources that dwarf nearly all in the league has an expectation of "finish in the top 7 of a 12 team conference" then there has been a big failure somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Then that's a problem of poor decision making on reupping Altidore at the price we paid, nobody put a gun to our head on it

    Bottom line, if a team that has resources that dwarf nearly all in the league has an expectation of "finish in the top 7 of a 12 team conference" then there has been a big failure somewhere.
    The failure to "dwarf" the league is directly attributable to not replacing our best player BEFORE the season started. It has nothing to do with our coach, who showed he could outcoach a much better constructed team in LA. If Vanney had been given this team from the start, I'm fairly certain we would be top 2-3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Then that's a problem of poor decision making on reupping Altidore at the price we paid, nobody put a gun to our head on it

    Bottom line, if a team that has resources that dwarf nearly all in the league has an expectation of "finish in the top 7 of a 12 team conference" then there has been a big failure somewhere.

    Considering the team went through a rebuild in December - I think they are doing ok. You seem to be blinded by spending on not on how the rebuild actual came to pass.
    You also seem to forget all the shit this roster has been through since December... although some could argue even as far back as last year.

    Fighting for 4th place in the conference - not at all anything to get your pantys in knot about. especially the way things are coming together the closer we are getting to the playoffs.

  6. #1806
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    TFC has played better more often as of late. Making the playoffs was a major goal.

    But Vanney still makes too many bizarre decisions. And motivation is still hit and miss.

    Vanney has probably secured his spot for next year. Depending which team & which tactics show up that night (it's a mystery), we might even win a playoff game, but I have a hard time getting my hopes up.

    At least the excuse and/or embarrassment of CCL won't play a role in early 2020. I have no idea how the Altidore and Bradley situations play out (that's mostly not on Vanney). All in all, I expect another thoroughly mediocre 2020 season.

  7. #1807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    TFC has played better more often as of late. Making the playoffs was a major goal.

    But Vanney still makes too many bizarre decisions. And motivation is still hit and miss.

    Vanney has probably secured his spot for next year. Depending which team & which tactics show up that night (it's a mystery), we might even win a playoff game, but I have a hard time getting my hopes up.

    At least the excuse and/or embarrassment of CCL won't play a role in early 2020. I have no idea how the Altidore and Bradley situations play out (that's mostly not on Vanney). All in all, I expect another thoroughly mediocre 2020 season.
    Eh, I'm optimistic. We have a lot of young talent coming up, we can figure out how to shed some of Bradley's salary. We're one solid attacker away from being a contender, I think.

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    We didn’t lose tonight because of Vanney’s tactics. If anything, the reason we got to penalties is because of the chances we constantly generated in the final third but couldn’t finish.

    Penalties are just a small part of a 90 minute game.

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    We lost last night due to mental/physical fatigue. You can not play 6 games in 18 days and not suffer for it. The only way to get around that is to have a much better mid stretch of the season so you can rotate more. Some of that bad stretch we had is on Vanney, and some is on Manning/Curtis for not getting the horses needed to adjust away from how Giovinco forced the team to play.


    Assuming Vanney stays, much of the off season needs to be focused on

    • recreating a defensive mindset in everybody
    • figuring out a rested Pozuelo's role

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    I thought Montreal played a damn fine road game at the back. They never lost track of the final man in the box. No TFC man got a clean look all night.

    It's a bummer, but we have stolen a couple of Voyageur Cups ourselves.

    Agree with those who cite fatigue.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Assuming Vanney stays, much of the off season needs to be focused on

    • recreating a defensive mindset in everybody
    • figuring out a rested Pozuelo's role
    I think a legit 100% defensive minded DM would really help a lot with the defensive mindset and possibly sort out the Poz position too. Poz needs to be in the middle of the pitch, preferrably right behind Jozy. After those moves Vanney needs to figure out the other mid whether its Osorio, Delgado, or DeLeon but I think an upgraded box to box mid would be the best choice for this. Preferrably someone with two feet decent who is good at free kicks and long distance goal attempts. That's something we sorely miss. Too much trying weave right into the 6 yard box all the time so we make teams that sit back have an easier time defending.

    As our roster is contructed, the single striker set up and insistance of the 4-3-3 isn't perfect for us especially when Vanney chooses to field only one real wide player like last night. Having Pozo out there was a waste and not even dressing Schaff or using Gallardo was a head scratcher. I think this off season Vanney (or new manager), Manning, & Curtis need to iron out what we're going to do on the pitch and cut those who don't fit or are redundant and get in players who actually fit the system. We're going to have a longer off season than normal so I expect some headway in this department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I think a legit 100% defensive minded DM would really help a lot with the defensive mindset and possibly sort out the Poz position too. Poz needs to be in the middle of the pitch, preferrably right behind Jozy. After those moves Vanney needs to figure out the other mid whether its Osorio, Delgado, or DeLeon but I think an upgraded box to box mid would be the best choice for this. Preferrably someone with two feet decent who is good at free kicks and long distance goal attempts. That's something we sorely miss. Too much trying weave right into the 6 yard box all the time so we make teams that sit back have an easier time defending.

    As our roster is contructed, the single striker set up and insistance of the 4-3-3 isn't perfect for us especially when Vanney chooses to field only one real wide player like last night. Having Pozo out there was a waste and not even dressing Schaff or using Gallardo was a head scratcher. I think this off season Vanney (or new manager), Manning, & Curtis need to iron out what we're going to do on the pitch and cut those who don't fit or are redundant and get in players who actually fit the system. We're going to have a longer off season than normal so I expect some headway in this department.
    So... should Curtis let Bradley go at season's end and look for a box-to-box upgrade? There's a real argument for that, if you can get the right player.


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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    We lost last night due to mental/physical fatigue. You can not play 6 games in 18 days and not suffer for it. The only way to get around that is to have a much better mid stretch of the season so you can rotate more. Some of that bad stretch we had is on Vanney, and some is on Manning/Curtis for not getting the horses needed to adjust away from how Giovinco forced the team to play.

    Assuming Vanney stays, much of the off season needs to be focused on

    • recreating a defensive mindset in everybody
    • figuring out a rested Pozuelo's role
    I very much agree with that off-season focus. However, I see a few additional crucial issues:
    - Bradley's new contract; his role next year (both in midfield & as captain); and the role of possible replacements or additions in that area of the midfield.

    - Jozy: he's under contract for next season, but his contributions have been hit & miss considering his salary. (He might still provide some magic in the playoffs, we shall see.) Vanney has to figure out how to get Jozy fit for the season; how much & how often to play him to keep him healthy; and the appropriate lineup and role both when Jozy is in & out.

    And yes mental/physical fatigue played a role last night. Interesting that they looked fitter on both counts in LA, despite the travel. But fatigue is also influenced by Vanney's choices. Maybe the FBs were tired; a less disruptive way to deal with that (instead of subbing both of them early) is to tell them to sit back more, and throw on some true wingers when Montreal is also tiring. Anyway if you're going for a win, Auro is no attacking upgrade on Laryea. Morrow is a potential upgrade on Morgan, but as others have said, Morrow was also getting beat in defense. I think Morrow had two dangerous forays forward: that's not worth a sub. Putting on Shaffelburg sometime after the 60th would have pinned back Montreal's right side more, also relieving pressure on our left FB (as long as our midfield is also helping on that side).

    Plus no relief was available for Jozy, and he has looked totally gassed (and/or injured) in multiple games. That's partly on Vanney for his lineup & sub choices; partly on management for having Mullins as the only available option up front. I'm concerned Jozy (and Pozuelo) will be done before the playoffs even begin.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 09-26-2019 at 11:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    So... should Curtis let Bradley go at season's end and look for a box-to-box upgrade? There's a real argument for that, if you can get the right player.
    I would unless the new CBA has some surprises.

    Bradley will be a legend here but sometimes you need to refresh the team and I think we're there now.

    Next offseason Curtis/Manning thing should be to ask Vanney why he insisted on getting players for the 4-3-3 and getting Benezet, Gallardo, & Schaff (enough along with Endoh to consistently play an attacking 4-3-3) and then rarely utilize the available players to run the system properly.

    I'd also ask why the reluctance to try Endoh for so long when he obviously is good enough for the job.

    Curtis question is why in a single striker formation we never acquired or signed a good and reliable goal scoring threat to back up to the oft-injured Jozy after Boyd failed. I get the Mullins deal and we clearly won that one but that was a trade essentially of 3rd or 4th choice forwards. The fact that Mullins is our #2 is exactly what I am talking about here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noimpactinmtl View Post
    We didn’t lose tonight because of Vanney’s tactics. If anything, the reason we got to penalties is because of the chances we constantly generated in the final third but couldn’t finish.

    Penalties are just a small part of a 90 minute game.
    We desperately need a second, reliable striker.

  16. #1816
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    Duane Rollins suggesting from an unnamed source in MLSE that Vanney "may" get moved to another role at TFC.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/24thminut...31131924078597

    Maybe Technical Director?

    I wonder how real this is? Or will it depend on where TFC finishes?

    Edit: this could have been Curtis's end play all along. Then bring in his own guy.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 09-26-2019 at 10:44 PM.

  17. #1817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Duane Rollins suggesting from an unnamed source in MLSE that Vanney "may" get moved to another role at TFC.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/24thminut...31131924078597

    Maybe Technical Director?

    Does he not already have the technical director title too? Could it not also be a Manning guy, ala Jason Kreis ? I know he has had two failures since his RSL days with both NYCFC and Orlando but could be interesting.

    I wonder how real this is? Or will it depend on where TFC finishes?

    Edit: this could have been Curtis's end play all along. Then bring in his own guy.
    I am not sure if there really is much of a difference between a first round crash and burn on the road compared to missing out the playoffs all together. More was expected from this team.

    Does Greg not already have the technical director title too? Could it not also be a Manning guy, ala Jason Kreis ? I know he has had two failures since his RSL days with both NYCFC and Orlando but could be interesting.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    "But maybe" on its own sounds like 100%. "But maybe" in reality is likely far less then that.


    *********

    No to Jason Kreis- he has shown he is unable to deal with large egos.

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    I know it won't happen for many reasons but if Vanney moves up or out I'd like to see Petke.

    We haven't had an emotional and fun manager since Carver plus he's MLS proven. Maybe a little crazy but proven.

    Or if Rafa has had it with China then him if he'd do it.

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    ^One thing is that the club is going to want to keep its same style of play. So instead of the Pep student, why not the real thing? Surely he's tired of English cuisine.

    More realistically we would be looking at an MLS lifer.

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    Vanney is already Technical Director.

    Kries has I think 3 three jobs at the moment. 2 with Inter Miami and he's coaching the Yank u23s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I know it won't happen for many reasons but if Vanney moves up or out I'd like to see Petke.
    Petke is a no go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Petke is a no go.
    Yeah Petke carries too much baggage. I'd like to see an ambitious hire.

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    Vanney already Technical Director so maybe assistant GM or VP unless they invent something new.

    If they want the same style of play and it's Vanney's call then I guess Rabasca internally or someone from the RSL chain. If Curtis is solely in charge of it then I say someone from NYRB chain, past or present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    ^One thing is that the club is going to want to keep its same style of play. So instead of the Pep student, why not the real thing? Surely he's tired of English cuisine.

    More realistically we would be looking at an MLS lifer.
    With our current structure, we don’t really need a manager to deal with the Byzantine MLS structure. We just need a coach who can prepare the team week in and week out.

    Pep is out of the question, but Mikel Arteta might be intrigued by a chance to coach his own first team. The problem is he doesn’t have experience yet, but Vieira at NYCFC proved that MLS can be a launching pad for potential coaches who need experience coaching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noimpactinmtl View Post
    With our current structure, we don’t really need a manager to deal with the Byzantine MLS structure. We just need a coach who can prepare the team week in and week out.

    Pep is out of the question, but Mikel Arteta might be intrigued by a chance to coach his own first team. The problem is he doesn’t have experience yet, but Vieira at NYCFC proved that MLS can be a launching pad for potential coaches who need experience coaching.
    No thanks to someone like arteta. Man city is the most expensive team ever, that style wont translate to a salary cap league. Its weird in soccer pep is a god but in basketball someone like Steve kerr they just say hes ok its all the talent the warriors had. Go for a coach who overachieves. How about silva who coached watford?

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Yeah Petke carries too much baggage. I'd like to see an ambitious hire.
    Nah ambition left with Bez..he might've tried for Rafa. Curtis/Manning will bring us someone they've worked with before or USMNT as is their pattern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shwade View Post
    Nah ambition left with Bez..he might've tried for Rafa. Curtis/Manning will bring us someone they've worked with before or USMNT as is their pattern.
    99% possibility of this happening.
    Sadly...

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    The #vanneyout discussion seems to be strangely quiet recently.

    Unbeaten in 10
    Home playoff game (with help)
    The Athletic considers TFC a contender and gives a lot of the credit to Vanney.

    Vanney was frustrating as can be at times during the season, however he now has the team firing on all cylinders, playing well together, and Nephew isn't even on the bench. They are playing attractive attacking football and doing well. What's not to like?
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 10-08-2019 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    The #vanneyout discussion seems to be strangely quiet recently.

    Unbeaten in 10
    Home playoff game (with help)
    The Athletic considers TFC a contender and gives a lot of the credit to Vanney.

    Vanney was frustrating as can be at times during the season, however he now has the team firing on all cylinders, playing well together, and Nephew isn't even on the bench. They are playing attractive attacking football and doing well. What's not to like?
    He's done well but the thing I've been waiting for is our 'other level' of play. We've seen it @ LAFC. I think it must be a Vanney plan to keep that under wraps and drop it as a surprise at some point in the playoffs. Might not need it against DC though.

    All I ask now is to practice penalties for the next few weeks.

 

 

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