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  1. #1771
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Vanney said all along he was going to manage Pozuelo's minutes.
    Someone else can find the detail (I couldn’t find it quickly) but Pozo has played 23 games here, missed maybe two, and gone 90 minutes in 18 or 19 of them. Yet Pozo never plays with Gallardo, then, the one time Gallardo finally starts... he sits him!

    Vanney has NOT managed Pozo's minutes, at all.

    We have arrived at crunch time and our speed winger has zero chemistry with our playmaker.
    Last edited by ensco; 08-25-2019 at 12:48 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  2. #1772
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Someone else can find the detail (I couldn’t find it quickly) but Pozo has played 23 games here, missed maybe two, and gone 90 minutes in 18 or 19 of them. Yet Pozo never plays with Gallardo, then, the one time Gallardo finally starts... he sits him!

    Vanney has NOT managed Pozo's minutes, at all, and we have arrived at crunch time and our speed winger has zero chemistry with our playmaker.
    I think training is more important in building chemistry than 45 minutes of game time. Just my opinion. That's one point of pre-season

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This is the first time I have seriously wondered about Vanney. Sitting Pozo was a major waste of a critical resource, and nearly cost us. Vanney needing to do that is evidence of some sort of serious problem.

    We have a window here. A lot of key players are older. We need to compete for MLS Cup this year. That is MORE IMPORTANT than Vanney's need to send messages and/or exert control in the room.

    It is almost September, and two of our three most important attacking players have played something like a total of 25 minutes together.

    It is past go time. The best XI needs to go 90 minutes game in and game out now, that has been true for a few weeks. But we sit the TAM guys, then play them without Pozo? That is impossible to explain. If Gallardo can play, he needs to play with Pozo. All the time. Period.

    Winning that game last night (which we were lucky to do, whatever the stats say) was not the only thing, or even the most important thing.

    I am not thrilled by the ambition of lurching into the 6 or 7 spot by eking it out against inferior teams, and maybe stealing a round.

    How the f&$k is this team going to develop the form to go into Atlanta and beat them?
    I am starting wonder if Vanney hasn’t decided to leave after the season.

  4. #1774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I think training is more important in building chemistry than 45 minutes of game time. Just my opinion. That's one point of pre-season
    Gotta have game time. It’s just different.

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    Vanney (and TSN's people too) said after the game that the defensive shape had to be sent up first and with that team, that meant Poz sat.

    Not sure about that....

  6. #1776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Vanney said all along he was going to manage Pozuelo's minutes.
    He literally said it was tactical though.

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  8. #1778
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Vanney (and TSN's people too) said after the game that the defensive shape had to be sent up first and with that team, that meant Poz sat.

    Not sure about that....
    They lined up in a 4-3-3 with three workhorse midfielders in Bradley, Deleon and Delgado. Pozuelo May have a high work rate but he’s running out of gas in recent fixtures.

    If he was aiming at a Liverpool like set up, it made sense to put in three hard working players in central mid with Altidore in the Firmino role flicking balls to Gallardo/Benezet.
    Last edited by noimpactinmtl; 08-28-2019 at 08:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noimpactinmtl View Post
    They lined up in a 4-3-3 with three workhorse midfielders in Bradley, Deleon and Delgado. Pozuelo May have a high work rate but he’s running out of gas in recent fixtures.

    If he was aiming at a Liverpool like set up, it made sense to put in three hard working players in central mid with Altidore in the Firmino role flicking balls to Gallardo/Benezet.
    Maybe he has become obsessed with Liverpool instead of Man City now. Expect Jozy to be sent packing then and bring in a false 9 haha maybe Pozuelo becomes a false 9.

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  11. #1781
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Vanney (and TSN's people too) said after the game that the defensive shape had to be sent up first and with that team, that meant Poz sat.

    Not sure about that....
    I think he doesn’t trust Gallardo and Benezet tactical sense or workrate. Or didn’t, perhaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This is the first time I have seriously wondered about Vanney. Sitting Pozo was a major waste of a critical resource, and nearly cost us. Vanney needing to do that is evidence of some sort of serious problem.

    We have a window here. A lot of key players are older. We need to compete for MLS Cup this year. That is MORE IMPORTANT than Vanney's need to send messages and/or exert control in the room.

    It is almost September, and two of our three most important attacking players have played something like a total of 25 minutes together.

    It is past go time. The best XI needs to go 90 minutes game in and game out now, that has been true for a few weeks. But we sit the TAM guys, then play them without Pozo? That is impossible to explain. If Gallardo can play, he needs to play with Pozo. All the time. Period.

    Winning that game last night (which we were lucky to do, whatever the stats say) was not the only thing, or even the most important thing.

    I am not thrilled by the ambition of lurching into the 6 or 7 spot by eking it out against inferior teams, and maybe stealing a round.

    How the f&$k is this team going to develop the form to go into Atlanta and beat them?
    I agree. Isn't it all but admitting it was a mistake to sub him in at the half too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    I think he doesn’t trust Gallardo and Benezet tactical sense or workrate. Or didn’t, perhaps.
    I know that’s the party line but does that not strike anyone else as at least a bit odd when you’ve started a green 19 year old in that place earlier in the season?

    I’ll take the position players > tactics. You don’t drop your best player to the bench because the textbook says you can be better tactically without someone who has his characteristics.

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    He had a talk with Poz the day before the last game telling him what he wanted that he wasn't doing then sat him for the first half. He can say all he wants that it was game tactics for the media but I think the only tactic was to get Poz on the same page with what he wants and sending a little message. Not really anything to do with tactics for the actual game in my opinion. Hopefully it works. Even though Poz is really skilled compared to many players on the team, players trying to do too much outside their role because they don't trust the other players to do their jobs always causes lots of issues from a "playing as a team" perspective because you lose your shape and team tactics then the flow of the game goes out the window. I can see Vanney's point with that.

  15. #1785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post
    He had a talk with Poz the day before the last game telling him what he wanted that he wasn't doing then sat him for the first half. He can say all he wants that it was game tactics for the media but I think the only tactic was to get Poz on the same page with what he wants and sending a little message. Not really anything to do with tactics for the actual game in my opinion. Hopefully it works. Even though Poz is really skilled compared to many players on the team, players trying to do too much outside their role because they don't trust the other players to do their jobs always causes lots of issues from a "playing as a team" perspective because you lose your shape and team tactics then the flow of the game goes out the window. I can see Vanney's point with that.
    Agreed. Plus IMO there's more to it even than that.

    I've debated for days whether to share this story, but I think it might help shed some light.

    When I used to coach youth, one year I had a really skilled player, a kid who had come recently to Canada from Brazil. He was very good, so good he was one of the top players in his age. Without him we were very ordinary, with him we were a top team. Whenever he was playing it brought everyone up a notch.

    The problem was he knew that he was better than almost everyone else and he was indespensible to the team. It got to his head slightly after some time, not that he had a bad attitude, he was always a team player, he never mouthed off, but he wasn't playing at 100%... it was more like 85%.

    So I benched him to start a game. The parents were swearing at me ("what the f*** are you doing benching our best player!"). But when I put him in he was playing at 100%. We won that game. We won most of our games. I'd like to say we won the league (we didn't, we came in second), but for the rest of that season he played his heart out.

    It's not like I could have (or would have) publicly called out that player because he didn't have a bad attitude or a prima donna attitude, it was just that he needed to see that even he could be benched if he didn't give it all.

    So everyone has noticed that Pozuelo seems to have been playing at about 85% in the last while, although he's not injured. I see a parallel.

    Now maybe Vanney is a complete idiot who puts tactical theories ahead of common sense. Or maybe, just maybe he wanted to send a message to Pozuelo that even he could be benched... and Pozuelo is a guy who knows he's better than most of the team but still needs to step it up to 100%. It's not like Vanney could have (or would have) publicly called him out either.

    It won't work for all players (Seba would have sulked), but for some players it can light a fire under them. Maybe just maybe that's what Vanney was doing.... as well as telling him he needed to follow the plan.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-28-2019 at 10:23 AM.


  16. #1786
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    In the grand scheme of this team and performance levels that sounds out-of-line to me. This guy has produced statistically and on a practical level. If I were to measure what I think Pozuelo capable of vs. what he’s giving i’d put it in the top half of the team, easily.

    We have not asked the average player on this team to raise their levels enough. That to me is a major issue. Vanney has no hammer when it comes to managing domestics. We played Bono until we were blue in the face and he had long since lost his form. Same with using Zavaleta. At one point this year, Bradley’s form was seriously low and I would say something similar about Delgado. Morrow has looked shakey at times.

    The whole squad has looked flat for extended periods. And it’s been raised whether our coach can really motivate anybody. Picking on Pozuelo is a funny place to start if the goal is cleaning things up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    The whole squad has looked flat for extended periods. And it’s been raised whether our coach can really motivate anybody. Picking on Pozuelo is a funny place to start if the goal is cleaning things up.
    I guess benching a DP will make an impact but I think benching Bradley as captain would have been a better move about 2 months ago. But whatever, if it has it's desired effect then good. We'll see.

  18. #1788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post


    Davidson's article on this from yesterday with quotes from both.


    In order to support the bit of footy journalism that still exists in Canada, it's best if people can read that article on one of the news sites. Hits, page views, and ad sales all matter.

    The Star has it: https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2...arting-11.html

    Sportsnet also has it: https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/pozu...vs-revolution/

  19. #1789
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    Maybe Fraser should have been given a shot. His Rapids look more lively tonight than we have for a long time.

  20. #1790
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    Vanney should be cut; our team should be excelling for excellence not mediocrity; and Vanney hasn't been able to pull out greatness of his team

  21. #1791
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    It may still be a first round playoff exit, but Vanney has TFC playing in form

    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
    ."
    -Fort York Redcoat, on the state of TFC

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    Didn't think we would do it but we made the playoffs.

    Vanney stays for next season.

  23. #1793
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    Tonight’s result was all about Vanney. If not for Mavinga’s brain fart, we would have had three Vanney points. I’ve been a bit down on him this season, but he came out with a great game plan against the top MLS team and it work for 94 minutes.
    Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy

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    I do wonder though what management would decide, if TFC doesn't get past Montreal on Wed., and then loses a first away game in the playoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I do wonder though what management would decide, if TFC doesn't get past Montreal on Wed., and then loses a first away game in the playoffs.
    There doesn’t seem to be a power struggle, Bill Manning and Ali Curtis are sensible enough to know the quality of the roster for much of the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Didn't think we would do it but we made the playoffs.

    Vanney stays for next season.
    For sure he does. Other then a few bad staring eleven choices he’s done nothing to deserve being let go. I mean let’s get real here. He was given shit to work with during the GC games And he still somehow managed to keep the team in it. He can only preach the game plan and the composure. He can’t go out and do it or he would still be playing. Everyone knows he was t too thrilled about the guys that FO brought in during transfers. And yet he’s got us fighting to keep a first round home game. When MOST on here said shit like 5% chance we make the playoffs and stupid shit like that. And look at us now. Even last night I thought he did a great job packing that back line for the last 35 min or so by bribing in Ciman. I think if the FO can get us even one more bojan, Bow , or shit even Benezet stile player He can get us another cup here in the city. Vanney has never been the problem. It’s the FO that need to get their shit together and spend wisely make shit happen. #VANNEYSTAY. lol. GO REDS!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Tonight’s result was all about Vanney. If not for Mavinga’s brain fart, we would have had three Vanney points. I’ve been a bit down on him this season, but he came out with a great game plan against the top MLS team and it work for 94 minutes.
    Credit where it’s due, Vanney’s setup last night, especially in the first half, was inspiring.

    I think absent a “difference in philosophy” between GM and coach he’ll be back next season

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    Surprised by the sentiment in here. Vanney has consistently, for years, had either the highest spending team in the league or close to it. Making the play offs is not the target, it's table stakes, failing to do it would be an embarassment. If we squeak in and bow out that should not save his job, there is no excuse for this team to not consistently be either the top team in MLS or in the conversation. It'd be like real Madrid being happy with making the champions league with the money they spend

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Surprised by the sentiment in here. Vanney has consistently, for years, had either the highest spending team in the league or close to it. Making the play offs is not the target, it's table stakes, failing to do it would be an embarassment. If we squeak in and bow out that should not save his job, there is no excuse for this team to not consistently be either the top team in MLS or in the conversation. It'd be like real Madrid being happy with making the champions league with the money they spend
    I agree 100% with this post.
    But it seems that for the overwhelming majority of the posters of this forum the bolded part either doest not matter at all, either they consider that no matter if they always spent that much, but the FO is guilty in the way they set up the team (player selection).

    "It'd be like real Madrid being happy with making the champions league with the money they spend" - Great analogy!

  30. #1800
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Surprised by the sentiment in here. Vanney has consistently, for years, had either the highest spending team in the league or close to it. Making the play offs is not the target, it's table stakes, failing to do it would be an embarassment. If we squeak in and bow out that should not save his job, there is no excuse for this team to not consistently be either the top team in MLS or in the conversation. It'd be like real Madrid being happy with making the champions league with the money they spend
    The spending is on three players, none of who are the best anymore in their position league - wise. Vanney deserves a tonne of credit.

 

 

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