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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Both Bez and Vanney aren't going anywhere until TFC is officially out of playoff picture.
    Not true. If this team continues to struggle, vanney will be gone sooner than later.

    There's no way in hell we should waste another season with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronzilla View Post
    Not true. If this team continues to struggle, vanney will be gone sooner than later.

    There's no way in hell we should waste another season with him.
    If we're out of the playoffs at the break, they might pull it early. Otherwise, I expect he's here 'til the end of the year, as people suggest. But the fact that we're back-ended with home games might make them pull the trigger earlier, figuring a bump plus home field would propel us.

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    What worries me is if Bez starts to feel hot and makes another panic buy like Kantari, saddling the team with another bad contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    He also changes tactics constantly; as a player, I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be playing six different formations in the first eleven games.
    Mo/Preki/Winter/Shorty Pants wete "too inlexible" and "didn't adjust." Now we have a coach that changes strategy depending on circumstances and that's bad? You can't have it both ways.

    I remember how often, for example, Sir Alex Ferguson at Man Utd regularly changed tactics and formations, especially between English and European games. His record speaks for itself.. So is it Vanney changing tactics, or is it our players that is the problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Both Bez and Vanney aren't going anywhere until TFC is officially out of playoff picture.
    Quote Originally Posted by ronzilla View Post
    Not true. If this team continues to struggle, vanney will be gone sooner than later.
    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    If we're out of the playoffs at the break, they might pull it early.
    Bill Manning has said that he has no intention of changing things during the season, and that TFC's problem has been constant change. I'm sure he'll wait until the end of the season to evaluate.

    Jason Kreis is waiting in the wings and if Vanney fails I'm pretty sure he is going to be the solution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    What worries me is if Bez starts to feel hot and makes another panic buy like Kantari, saddling the team with another bad contract.
    Kantari was a move by the other Tim, I can confidently say that
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    Kantari was a move by the other Tim, I can confidently say that
    How so? I wouldn't have had TL for a penchant for Moroccan CBs

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Setanta View Post
    it was 11 points in 8 games, 1.375 points per game. hardly setting the world on fire. and it certainly wasn't backed up with all that much from the home stint that followed.
    That PPG on the road is right up there with the best road records in the league. Last year's best road record was Vancouver with 1.41 PPG on the road. But yes, our performance since then has been donkey balls.
    Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy

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    At this point what needs to happen is Manning needs to be looking. He has to be looking for a new GM, a New Head Coach who will bring in their own staff, and the players need to work hard knowing it is happening. Vanney needs to make sure he fights for his job right now.


    This could just be a bad spell.. We have only lost 5. But we aren't getting the wins. With the changes made last year we should be up significantly from where we are.


    And it is our inability to score. Which as I said produces a Net Zero gain over last. We are no better a team right now than we were last year and that is because of not the players on the pitch but the people coaching. Every player on the Pitch is capable, it is the people behind the scenes that aren't thinking right. I'm not sure we have had a great coach in 10 years. John Carver might have been the closes we have come but he had Mo.


    TFC didn't need 120 million in stadium money. It needed Staff money it still does.



    I don't see Vanney being here next year.. I think he knows it too. As long as he doesn't drop below the Red line for too long I don't see him getting fired before the end of the season though. If he some how turns it around though.. the sky isn't falling but we need to make a strong push into the playoffs.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    How so? I wouldn't have had TL for a penchant for Moroccan CBs
    He needed to have that team make the playoffs no matter what. One Moroccan CB at a time
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  10. #130
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    We have to get to the conference finals for them both to keep their job. That wont happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    At this point what needs to happen is Manning needs to be looking. He has to be looking for a new GM, a New Head Coach who will bring in their own staff, and the players need to work hard knowing it is happening. Vanney needs to make sure he fights for his job right now.


    This could just be a bad spell.. We have only lost 5. But we aren't getting the wins. With the changes made last year we should be up significantly from where we are.


    And it is our inability to score. Which as I said produces a Net Zero gain over last. We are no better a team right now than we were last year and that is because of not the players on the pitch but the people coaching. Every player on the Pitch is capable, it is the people behind the scenes that aren't thinking right. I'm not sure we have had a great coach in 10 years. John Carver might have been the closes we have come but he had Mo.


    TFC didn't need 120 million in stadium money. It needed Staff money it still does.



    I don't see Vanney being here next year.. I think he knows it too. As long as he doesn't drop below the Red line for too long I don't see him getting fired before the end of the season though. If he some how turns it around though.. the sky isn't falling but we need to make a strong push into the playoffs.
    No we've never had a "great" coach....those are few and far between in MLS, and the ones that do/did exist are comfortable at their jobs without having the pressure that comes with TFC....

    Carver was not a great coach either.....he was passionate and had a big mouth but that's about it.....then he did the coaching equivalent to Defoe imo.....once he didn't get his way he threw a tantrum then up and left.....

    As far as the current set up goes, I'm still willing to wait and see.....TFC went in to Saturday's game 3 points out of first in the East (still only 4 pts out), and whether the points come at home or road right now it doesn't matter, points are points.....there's no reason to make a change right now.....by August 1 say, the story could be different....

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC Tifoso View Post
    No we've never had a "great" coach....those are few and far between in MLS, and the ones that do/did exist are comfortable at their jobs without having the pressure that comes with TFC....

    Carver was not a great coach either.....he was passionate and had a big mouth but that's about it.....then he did the coaching equivalent to Defoe imo.....once he didn't get his way he threw a tantrum then up and left.....

    As far as the current set up goes, I'm still willing to wait and see.....TFC went in to Saturday's game 3 points out of first in the East (still only 4 pts out), and whether the points come at home or road right now it doesn't matter, points are points.....there's no reason to make a change right now.....by August 1 say, the story could be different....

    Ah see you and I have different expectation. I look at the West as much as I look at the East. SS should be something we are looking as well as a MLS cup. The issue comes from the fact that we have a team that should (on paper) be contending. Last year we should have if we had a better defense. We should have that this year.. but got rid of all the offensive support to do it.. which created a net zero.. which seems like a total failure as you are one injury away from collapse. ...

    At this point we should be able to compete with the Western teams as well. Not even in the play off picture there. We should be at the top of the East not where we are. We dropped at least 4 points at home that we should have gotten if this was the team we should be. We should be sitting at 20/21 points at least right now. His coaching has produced a Gio that can't score (at his potential level), no real play making because it is all relying on Gio to score so not enough other players are doing so. Mean While you have Jozy whose only real sure thing score was taken by Endoh (and I think he was talked to about it) but I don't think anyone even Jozy holds it against him, I'd count the PK he missed.. but right now even a PK isn't a sure thing for him. So you have two DPs under performing (even though Gio is still doing well) and Michael Bradley playing not great.. he is making odd mistakes at times. Plus you have the back passing that has burned us several times. That is again on Vanney because clearly they are practicing this stuff but not with enough pressure or the players hate doing it so much their hearts just aren't in it.

    So again we are back to a single source.

    He has time.. I really don't think he can do anything with it though... of course it's been a month since Portland.. so it could be an off month.. I really don't think so though. The issues I said existed then still exist. I have seen nothing to change my opinion in this way.
    Last edited by Kaz; 05-30-2016 at 04:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Setanta View Post
    it was 11 points in 8 games, 1.375 points per game. hardly setting the world on fire. and it certainly wasn't backed up with all that much from the home stint that followed.
    In a league that's 23 years old and it being the record, guess no one really set the world on fire...

    attempting to compare this league to any other league would be like comparing apples to oranges.

    Moving on...

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    At this point what needs to happen is Manning needs to be looking. He has to be looking for a new GM, a New Head Coach who will bring in their own staff, and the players need to work hard knowing it is happening. Vanney needs to make sure he fights for his job right now.
    Any good team President either has a good backup or is looking for one for both GM and coach. I'd be shocked if he doesn't have any names in his Rolodex, and I'm sure that Jason Kreis will be on any short list for coach.

    Vanney would know that he needs to deliver. I think Manning had said playoffs last year and top 2 in the East this year. It still can be done, but there is no leeway for poor stretches given the poor home run.
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    Manning is not just going to replace Vanney with Kreis imho. Not now, and not at year end either. He's not a rent a coach.

    Kreis will have plenty of choices at year end - between the expansion teams, and the usual turnover, he could have 5 or 6 options.

    If Kreis comes here, it would have to part of a much bigger change in team mgmt and philosophy.

    The team would need to have a different GM and a totally different personnel philosophy (DPs and everything else) for Kreis to make sense, and for this to make sense to Kreis.
    Last edited by ensco; 05-31-2016 at 10:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Manning is not just going to replace Vanney with Kreis imho. Not now, and not at year end either. He's not a rent a coach.

    Kreis will have plenty of choices at year end - between the expansion teams, and the usual turnover, he could have 5 or 6 options.

    If Kreis comes here, it would have to part of a much bigger change in team mgmt and philosophy.

    The team would need to have a different GM and a totally different personnel philosophy (DPs and everything else) for Kreis to make sense, and for this to make sense to Kreis.
    Agreed. Actually Kreis won't likely go anywhere that he doesn't have ultimate control over the team.
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    As a relative newcomer to MLS, I have to say that if you want sustained success you need to begin with the manager.

    It's great having Giovinco & Bradley, but you need a coach who is equal to that level, and you're probably having to look to Europe for someone who fits the bill.

    I like Vanney, he seems like a decent enough guy and a decent coach, but I don't think he's of a high enough calibre for a club that wants to establish itself as a real force.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish Red View Post
    As a relative newcomer to MLS, I have to say that if you want sustained success you need to begin with the manager.

    It's great having Giovinco & Bradley, but you need a coach who is equal to that level, and you're probably having to look to Europe for someone who fits the bill.

    I like Vanney, he seems like a decent enough guy and a decent coach, but I don't think he's of a high enough calibre for a club that wants to establish itself as a real force.
    This seemed to be the way of thinking for many years, but the history of this particular league is littered with the dead of many a coach/player who believed their history of success abroad would translate into success in MLS. It is usually not the case. The best coaches in this league tend to be former players or coaches who have MLS experience. Coyle just left Houston (former EPL coach) little after a year in this league.

    There is alot to deal with that international coaches are not prepared for... a Salary Cap, restrictions that come with a parity-type league, fiscally prudent ownership, the league not respecting international play dates. I wouldn't want the job myself!

    Not only that, but it would be very tough to bring a well known coach of international renown to come into MLS and coach a team that may or may not be Championship winning legacy for years to come based on the parity rules of the league.

    I would agree with you though, I think the manager can make the difference. The coach for Toronto will continue to be evaluated this year, but I doubt he is going anywhere in the time being, unless there is a big name waiting in the wings... I don't see it, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Any good team President either has a good backup or is looking for one for both GM and coach. I'd be shocked if he doesn't have any names in his Rolodex, and I'm sure that Jason Kreis will be on any short list for coach.

    Vanney would know that he needs to deliver. I think Manning had said playoffs last year and top 2 in the East this year. It still can be done, but there is no leeway for poor stretches given the poor home run.
    I heard through the grape vine late last year that Kreis is still somehow tied to his contract with NY. Not sure of details, but I heard he's somehow limited on options. Same goes with Petke. I'm not sure how long it's for, but that it was the case for last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    Ah see you and I have different expectation. I look at the West as much as I look at the East. SS should be something we are looking as well as a MLS cup. The issue comes from the fact that we have a team that should (on paper) be contending. Last year we should have if we had a better defense. We should have that this year.. but got rid of all the offensive support to do it.. which created a net zero.. which seems like a total failure as you are one injury away from collapse. ...

    At this point we should be able to compete with the Western teams as well. Not even in the play off picture there. We should be at the top of the East not where we are. We dropped at least 4 points at home that we should have gotten if this was the team we should be. We should be sitting at 20/21 points at least right now. His coaching has produced a Gio that can't score (at his potential level), no real play making because it is all relying on Gio to score so not enough other players are doing so. Mean While you have Jozy whose only real sure thing score was taken by Endoh (and I think he was talked to about it) but I don't think anyone even Jozy holds it against him, I'd count the PK he missed.. but right now even a PK isn't a sure thing for him. So you have two DPs under performing (even though Gio is still doing well) and Michael Bradley playing not great.. he is making odd mistakes at times. Plus you have the back passing that has burned us several times. That is again on Vanney because clearly they are practicing this stuff but not with enough pressure or the players hate doing it so much their hearts just aren't in it.

    So again we are back to a single source.

    He has time.. I really don't think he can do anything with it though... of course it's been a month since Portland.. so it could be an off month.. I really don't think so though. The issues I said existed then still exist. I have seen nothing to change my opinion in this way.
    ya different expectations is about it.....the way I see it, this year we figured out the Starting XI, next year we bring in the bench players....then we can talk about competing with the league's best....I really think May was an off month, and perhaps players like Giovinco were preoccupied with making the Euro roster....this month no such distractions exist.....we'll see how it goes....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Agreed. Actually Kreis won't likely go anywhere that he doesn't have ultimate control over the team.
    I find it amusing when people hold up Kreis as a brilliant tactician/manager. There's little evidence of this.
    Yes, he had a few good years in Salt Lake, but that's certainly not a track record.
    The year he won MLS Cup, RSL finished below .500. He never won a Supporters' Shield. He never finished top of the West.
    If, for whatever reason, Manning wanted to bring him in, it would change everything. Turnover would be immense. It would be another three- or four-year rebuild.

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    Question: Had someone asked you your thoughts on TFC's progress under Vanney post-FC Dallas win, what would you have said?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    Question: Had someone asked you your thoughts on TFC's progress under Vanney post-FC Dallas win, what would you have said?
    I think everyone thought he was doing decently well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I think everyone thought he was doing decently well.
    So re-evaluating him during a 0-2-2 stretch is kind of silly considering TFC was never going to win in New York. Heck, I predicted a 3-0 loss at Red Bull Arena pre-game considering the absences.

    Soccer is a game of inches. Did TFC have a successful May? No. But they were also a Giovinco finish away from finishing last month with a 3-2-0 record, which would have them top of the East.

    Giovinco misses one-on-ones with the goalkeeper in draws against New York City and Columbus. If he finishes, this thread likely doesn't exist. Look at the big picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    Question: Had someone asked you your thoughts on TFC's progress under Vanney post-FC Dallas win, what would you have said?
    A couple of good games, more than a couple of poor games, and on balance more games where we got better than we deserved, than the opposite.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I heard through the grape vine late last year that Kreis is still somehow tied to his contract with NY. Not sure of details, but I heard he's somehow limited on options. Same goes with Petke. I'm not sure how long it's for, but that it was the case for last year.
    I think it has to do with the $$ amount NYCFC is still paying him. From what I recall they were on the hook for the full 7 figure amount for this season and if he signed with another team they didn't owe him anything so any new offer would need to be as high or he would be leaving money on the table this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    A couple of good games, more than a couple of poor games, and on balance more games where we got better than we deserved, than the opposite.
    That's extremely harsh considering...

    *Toronto FC had best GAA in the league following first nine matches.
    *Sat top three in the East following eight-game road trip.
    *Established record for points during an extended road trip.
    *Shut out a derby rival in convincing fashion at end of extended road trip.
    *And probably should have/could have collected at least a point in each of first nine games. At least they were in position to.

    Quite frankly, the "we got better than we deserved" evaluation couldn't be further from the truth...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    That's extremely harsh considering...

    *Toronto FC had best GAA in the league following first nine matches.
    *Sat top three in the East following eight-game road trip.
    *Established record for points during an extended road trip.
    *Shut out a derby rival in convincing fashion at end of extended road trip.
    *And probably should have/could have collected at least a point in each of first nine games. At least they were in position to.

    Quite frankly, the "we got better than we deserved" evaluation couldn't be further from the truth...
    Thanks for the voice of reason, hard to keep up with all the negative posts sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    Question: Had someone asked you your thoughts on TFC's progress under Vanney post-FC Dallas win, what would you have said?
    Honestly I had the same concerns I had all along.

    We scored 1 single goal and though no one talked about it, it looked like Endoh was actually lightly scolded about it because he seemed to poach the ball from Jozy. Not with intent just we wasn't aware of where his team mates were. We were back passing, we nearly got burned because of it. Over all we just weren't hitting the mark or putting a strong offensive showing. I put that blame on Vanney.

    So to me the Dallas Performance was concerning but more of the same. Of course I couldn't say that because I'd get shouted down as it seemed people were really happy and more interested in the noise than the product on the pitch.

    Look in this thread I brought up these issues before the loss in Portland after the 2-0 win in Montreal on April 26th. I really hoped I was wrong, nothing since then has changed me opinion.

    Though we are letting in many fewer goals, or offense is much less a team effort and more.. give Seba the ball and hope for the best while we bunker down. This is directly due to Vanney's win by 1 goal or tie strategy. It has paid off point wise but has actually lead to both loses. In fact in our last 5 games we have only scored 4 goals. Last season there was only 1 game in the opening road trip were we didn't score and we scored 2 or more goals in 4 of the 7.

    We still need to be able to score. Our offensive form has likely cost us 5 points, we really do need to find a balance. The sky isn't falling but if we lose Seba and Jozy for stretches where is our offense? If we lose Bradley where is our defense? All is not Roses and Gummie Bears. We are 15th in the league in Goals scored right now. We basically went from nearly the top scoring team and the team with the most goals against, to the team with the least goals against but nearly the least goals scored. Both can result in barely making the playoffs as it means every game is going to be a nail biter.
    Last edited by Kaz; 06-01-2016 at 08:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtLarSUN View Post
    That's extremely harsh considering...

    *Toronto FC had best GAA in the league following first nine matches.
    *Sat top three in the East following eight-game road trip.
    *Established record for points during an extended road trip.
    *Shut out a derby rival in convincing fashion at end of extended road trip.
    *And probably should have/could have collected at least a point in each of first nine games. At least they were in position to.

    Quite frankly, the "we got better than we deserved" evaluation couldn't be further from the truth...
    In the first nine games, we got better than we deserved against NY, NE, DCU and maybe Dallas. We deserved better from the SKC and Portland games.

    We looked very good against Montreal, and for good stretches against SKC and Portland. But Montreal remains the only wire to wire complete performance.

    Over all, we haven't looked that great, and are overly dependent on Seba to produce everything. That was already true after nine games.

    You think this is an "extreme" view? It's a free country
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

 

 

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