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  1. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I don't think he's on thin ice. At least he's not behaving like a manager on thin ice. The line-ups he's been putting out suggest to me that he has the leeway to drop points. I mean keeping Pozuelo on the bench, STARTING Boyd and Zavs... those aren't things you do when you fear for your job.

    Guy isn't going anywhere.
    agreed, he is not going anywhere

    watch him in interviews, he has no fear in his voice or body language, he just speaks matter of factly
    he speaks nonchalantly about the way the team is playing

    as others have said he knows reinforcements are coming.
    maybe seba?

  2. #1382
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    agreed, he is not going anywhere

    watch him in interviews, he has no fear in his voice or body language, he just speaks matter of factly
    he speaks nonchalantly about the way the team is playing

    as others have said he knows reinforcements are coming.
    maybe seba?
    Did you see the Manning interview? Linked on the previous page. They're giving Vanney some time, but they say he has to deliver. If he doesn't turn things around by the end of the season, he's probably gone. Especially if they get reinforcements in the summer. (Omar + at least a TAM player.)

    BTW after seeing Zavaleta & Ciman tonight, as well as Moor's / Mavinga's repeated injury problems, I don't think that Omar Gonzalez alone is enough to shore up our backline. That sucks for the team & for Vanney, but he better adjust his formation to be realistic.

  3. #1383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Did you see the Manning interview? Linked on the previous page. They're giving Vanney some time, but they say he has to deliver. If he doesn't turn things around by the end of the season, he's probably gone. Especially if they get reinforcements in the summer. (Omar + at least a TAM player.)

    BTW after seeing Zavaleta & Ciman tonight, as well as Moor's / Mavinga's repeated injury problems, I don't think that Omar Gonzalez alone is enough to shore up our backline. That sucks for the team & for Vanney, but he better adjust his formation to be realistic.
    Yeah he has to deliver.. deliver playoffs. In this league that is now a low bar to clear. Throughout this skid we have remained in the playoffs, in fact, I'm not sure if we've ever dropped out of a playoff spot this season. But again when 7 clubs are getting in there's not much to worry about if you're Greg Vanney.

  4. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Yeah he has to deliver.. deliver playoffs. In this league that is now a low bar to clear. Throughout this skid we have remained in the playoffs, in fact, I'm not sure if we've ever dropped out of a playoff spot this season. But again when 7 clubs are getting in there's not much to worry about if you're Greg Vanney.
    Yeah you're right, that's a pretty low bar. Do you think squeaking into the 7th playoff spot, and exiting first round, will be enough for FO though? I don't know either way.

  5. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Yeah you're right, that's a pretty low bar. Do you think squeaking into the 7th playoff spot, and exiting first round, will be enough for FO though? I don't know either way.
    Manning's very straightforward. If playoffs are the minimum for this year then he'll keep his job if they get in.

    One thing I've noticed is that Vanney performs better under pressure. He decided to be more daring against Atlanta and like usual when he does that it paid off (MLS Cup 2017 was another case where he was daring and used a formation that he had only used a few times that year). He has this frustrating tendency to sometimes be inflexible and get stuck doing repeatedly things that don't work. When he's challenged by his bosses or circumstances though he overcomes that tendency. Just an observation.

  6. #1386
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    There was a meaningful level of criticism of Vanney by Manning in that interview. That wasn’t the anodyne statement of support you usually get in sports.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  7. #1387
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    Yep, a clear you dont make the playoffs you're gone message

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    There was a meaningful level of criticism of Vanney by Manning in that interview. That wasn’t the anodyne statement of support you usually get in sports.
    It was bluntly respectfullly honest. Manning has that streak about him in public declarations. I can't imagine him going anywhere near a Teacher's Pension Plan sort of environment.

    it also brings clarity so people can stop talking about it.

  9. #1389
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    It was bluntly respectfullly honest. Manning has that streak about him in public declarations. I can't imagine him going anywhere near a Teacher's Pension Plan sort of environment.

    it also brings clarity so people can stop talking about it.
    It really depends. Sometimes this kind of thing causes more talk.

    Hard to know in this case. This team has had an awful lot go on the last six months
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Vanney almost blew this game big time. Changes were needed in the second half and the one and only change should have happened way earlier.

  11. #1391
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Stick View Post
    Vanney almost blew this game big time. Changes were needed in the second half and the one and only change should have happened way earlier.
    Yeah, we almost tied the game instead of winning.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Stick View Post
    Vanney almost blew this game big time. Changes were needed in the second half and the one and only change should have happened way earlier.
    I thought to myself around minute 60, "Who do you take off?" A defender for a forward means a change in shape & likely Atlanta punishes the uncertainty (that has happened a lot this season). Anybody else had to be a like for like.

    He didn't want to change the dynamic - the passing was working so well for once. He was going to do Shaffleburg off for Akinola about from the 83rd minute.

    Endoh was going to come off earlier but like a lot of players when they see the change is coming, they bare down and grind it out harder - that's when he put that one off the bar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Yeah, we almost tied the game instead of winning.
    I didn't think we played as well in the second half as we did in the first. Atlanta made adjustments and TFC didn't. We were lucky.

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    It was good to see the change in formation and tactics in this game. I think many of us have been confused as to why he stuck with the same formation/players over the last series of games (Boyd!), when the results have been so poor. i give Vanney credit for a change that led to a more entertaining, and more importantly, much more effective effort.

    As a few mentioned above, I also wasn't sure what changes Vanney could make later in the second half. The obvious one was Chapman, though I didn't think he had big impact. I agree with those who said that taking Shaffleburg and Endoh off didn't make sense as they were both having a great game. I don't fault Vanney for sticking with what has been the most effective formation that I have seen in a while.

  15. #1395
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Stick View Post
    I didn't think we played as well in the second half as we did in the first. Atlanta made adjustments and TFC didn't. We were lucky.
    Atlanta's adjustments were mostly ineffective (maybe Shaffleburg was somewhat better marked). They didn't really have an answer for speedy wide play and TFC kept opening them up right until the end.

    Any adjustment like bringing in Hamilton or changing formation with another defender would have given up TFC's primary advantage in this match. I don't think it was "lucky" at all, it was a conscience decision.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Yeah you're right, that's a pretty low bar. Do you think squeaking into the 7th playoff spot, and exiting first round, will be enough for FO though? I don't know either way.
    7th and first round exit wouldn't be enough for me, but I think Manning made it clear that we've stepped away from the "Why not us" era.

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    Bringing up the Nelsen comparison again (I did it last year as well).

    This is the second year in a row Vanney's TFC is worse than Nelsen's 2014.

    It took a disgusting 3 nil loss to get Neslen sacked (while we were sitting tied 3rd in the East). Vanney has us sitting 7th and we've suffered multiple atrocious performances.

    Vanney says he likes the direction the team is going in. Guy has a long leash - hell he might not even be on one at this point.

  18. #1398
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Bringing up the Nelsen comparison again (I did it last year as well).

    This is the second year in a row Vanney's TFC is worse than Nelsen's 2014.

    It took a disgusting 3 nil loss to get Neslen sacked (while we were sitting tied 3rd in the East). Vanney has us sitting 7th and we've suffered multiple atrocious performances.

    Vanney says he likes the direction the team is going in. Guy has a long leash - hell he might not even be on one at this point.

    Nelsen was sacked because

    a) he argued with his GM

    b) he didn't want to use monitoring equipment or load management

    c) he was resistant to analytics

    d) his training methods were substandard

    & he didn't get results


    There was a lot more going on at that time then there is now.

  19. #1399
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    People forget that Nelsen (with zero coaching experience) was a significant improvement over the much more experienced Paul Mariner.

    That being said he was a old school player from the UK old chums network, not exactly the person to implement modern methods of coaching. He also didn't want high end DPs like Seba or Jozy, he preferred a team of middling players. Ultimately Bez's approach was proven correct and I don't regret him being replaced.

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    Why wont he play osorio?
    Oh there he is. 54th min just as i typed it

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    Quote Originally Posted by glaze View Post
    Why wont he play osorio?
    Oh there he is. 54th min just as i typed it
    Oso had the flu.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    Vanney puts on the worst lineup against Houston tonight and loses at home - discuss

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    Vanney sucks.

    Houston also had 3 games this week, with more travel. And they were 1-8 away before this game. And they were missing their top scorer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Vanney sucks.

    Houston also had 3 games this week, with more travel. And they were 1-8 away before this game. And they were missing their top scorer.
    I have not generally been in tune with the Vanney criticism, but I think this quote captures it well. In my view, Vanney lost this game tonight, not the players on the field. I have to wonder how long we tolerate this type of bad coaching. As I have said elsewhere, we are not the 2017 TFC anymore (which Vanney did coach well). We don’t have the margin of error to support nights like tonight or other incomprehensible decisions (e.g., continuing to play Boyd, subbing in Zavaleta late in games, etc.). I now believe it is time to move on.

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    Like some others I had always supported vanney.
    But no longer. He deliberately threw this game under the direction of his master's.
    MLSE blew it big time on this one, they threw the game too obviously.
    Everyone hates vanney now, myself included. I don't think he can survive this one.
    Tonight was an insult to 25,000 people that paid to go to that game
    Look at the comments on Twitter. He's done like dinner. Good riddance

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    Vanney can do brilliant strategic choices (typically when he has a full healthy "A" team) like in many of the games of the triple run, especially some of those games against Mexican sides, and then he pulls inexplicably horrible choices (typically when missing some players) that almost anyone with the slightest footy knowledge can see are idiotic.

    Why this second side to him? Is it hubris? Stupidity? Match fixing? A below average bench? Bi-polar? I don't get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Vanney can do brilliant strategic choices (typically when he has a full healthy "A" team) like in many of the games of the triple run, especially some of those games against Mexican sides, and then he pulls inexplicably horrible choices (typically when missing some players) that almost anyone with the slightest footy knowledge can see are idiotic.

    Why this second side to him? Is it hubris? Stupidity? Match fixing? A below average bench? Bi-polar? I don't get it.
    His interviews clearly detail exactly what he was thinking. He overthinks and relies on players to play above their ability, which simply isn’t the right mindset for an MLS team that is only as good as its weakest players on the pitch.

    Hence the, “They’re not playing like I want them to,” “They were too slow,” “Not enough passing going forward,” “Weakness in transition,” etc.

    That’s not necessarily good coaching, but it’s pretty easy to see what Vanney was thinking without resorting to guessing ulterior motivation or disorders bordering on the absurd.

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    I can see why Vanney would do what he did yesterday. I don't agree with it, but I understand why he did it. and TBH - I still wouldn't sack him:

    With regards to all 3 DP's sitting:
    - There have been many in TFC land who have said Michael Bradley can be easily replaced by Liam Fraiser. I'm hoping that argument has now been put to rest.
    - Jozy Altiodre is on Load management. That's the only way we can guarantee he stays fit for the August / September run and then playoffs. There is no argument against that.
    - Pozuelo is hurt - we all saw him get hacked. There's nothing anyone could do about that.

    With regards to Ciman and Zavaletta starting:
    - Moor is done and Mavinga probably hurt again or he is being Load managed like Altiorde.
    - Omar can't just walk in and take Ciman's place on the roster, even though everyone knows Omar should. There's seniority that has to play out, you still have to give Ciman a reason why his place is being taken away from him.
    - Ciman is showing time and time again that he isn't the player he was 2 years ago. He's done. This is just another example of why he'll need to be let go at the end of the year, no matter how "Fit" people will claim he is
    - Zavaleta - that's on Greg. Although with everything else being mentioned above, who do you start?

  29. #1409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Vanney can do brilliant strategic choices (typically when he has a full healthy "A" team) like in many of the games of the triple run, especially some of those games against Mexican sides, and then he pulls inexplicably horrible choices (typically when missing some players) that almost anyone with the slightest footy knowledge can see are idiotic.

    Why this second side to him? Is it hubris? Stupidity? Match fixing? A below average bench? Bi-polar? I don't get it.
    It’s a preoccupation with a theoretical approach to the game and the absence of practicality. You see it with other managers is world football as well (Wenger in his later years, for example).

    He’s not an all-around terrible coach by any means. But, it’s fair to question at this stage if he’s adaptable enough for what TFC will be going forward.

  30. #1410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Vanney can do brilliant strategic choices (typically when he has a full healthy "A" team) like in many of the games of the triple run, especially some of those games against Mexican sides, and then he pulls inexplicably horrible choices (typically when missing some players) that almost anyone with the slightest footy knowledge can see are idiotic.

    Why this second side to him? Is it hubris? Stupidity? Match fixing? A below average bench? Bi-polar? I don't get it.
    Match fixing. He threw that game away last night.

 

 

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