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  1. #91
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    I agree with you guys, but when you only have 1 player they can actually score, what options do you have? Everybody has been missing pure sitters these last games (as well as Portland). Nobody trusts each other to finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBobSaget View Post
    Everyone is always looking for Seba. One play Babouli had Johnson driving down the middle wide open and also Seba semi-covered out wise, he decides to hammer it out wide to Seba only to smash it into Johnson who was rightfully pissed.
    Yeah it actually happened repeatedly enough that it became a topic in our section and once we were talking about it we noticed how much it happened. Whether it was Endoh, Babouli or Johnson making good runs you could tell everyone was looking to pass to Seba even though he was at least double covered.

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    People seem to be forgetting that Seba didn't score on a breakaway about 10 minutes in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    People seem to be forgetting that Seba didn't score on a breakaway about 10 minutes in.
    It wasn't exactly a breakaway, as there was a defender tracking back while Seba was coming down on a tough angle.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronzilla View Post
    It wasn't exactly a breakaway, as there was a defender tracking back while Seba was coming down on a tough angle.
    we're used to Giovinco potting those in easily.

    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    People seem to be forgetting that Seba didn't score on a breakaway about 10 minutes in.
    Giovinico isn't what he was last year. I think part of it is the pressure of the do everything through Seba thing. He has so much pressure where last year he may have been the best player on the pitch but he was part of a team. Altidore last year has scored 5 goals by this point. We had 8 goal scorers.

    We aren't using our players well.

    Gio this year 8 goals 5 assists from 11 games TFC has scored 14 goals total, Gio directly involved in 13 of 14
    last year 5 Goals 6 assists from 11 games TFC had scored 17 goals total, Gio directly involved in 11 of 17

    Last year 15 goals against and 16 points after 11 games (5-5-1) (GD +2)
    This year 12 goals against and 15 points after 11 games (4-4-3) (GD +2)

    we were two points up on last years point total after 7 games and now we are 1 point down after 11 which means all the changes in the offseason have result in basically a net zero gain. We are not a better team this year than we were last year. As we are actually winning fewer games. We aren't losing games but games that we could have won last year are ties and games we would have lost last year are ties. Thus we are ending up with a point deficit. If something doesn't change, if this isn't just a blip. We aren't going to compete for the SS, we aren't going to compete for first in the East and we are going to struggle to get into the playoffs.

    The players are here.. the only thing that was potentially an issue last year that is the same now is Vanney and Bez. As such that is a concern.

    The sky isn't falling but; it is starting to look like it might be.
    Last edited by Kaz; 05-19-2016 at 09:46 AM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    ...The sky isn't falling but; it is starting to look like it might be.


    Yes, it seems like it was only 120 hours ago that we were all feeling good about this team......oh wait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Yes, it seems like it was only 120 hours ago that we were all feeling good about this team......oh wait.
    It's like TFC (and Raps/Blue Jays) fans forgot we're Toronto for a while. Welcome back to normal folks!

  9. #99
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    Time for another arbitrary performance threshhold from Bill Manning? Kinda joking about that, kinda not - it seemed to focus both the squad and the coach.
    No one likes us, we don't care.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Yes, it seems like it was only 120 hours ago that we were all feeling good about this team......oh wait.

    I haven't been feeling good about this time since Portland.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    I haven't been feeling good about this time since Portland.
    Fair enough. The transition from defensive stalwarts to at home offensive threats hasn't gone smoothly but our attack has been steady. Vanney himself said yesterday they spent too much time passing the ball around the back and not enough quick movement getting the ball forward. I put that down to 3 of the more offensive targets being pretty raw. Both Endoh and Babouli got into the game more as it went on. Here's hoping for Delgado or Osorio to be back cause Chapman just didn't cut it for me.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    Giovinico isn't what he was last year. I think part of it is the pressure of the do everything through Seba thing. He has so much pressure where last year he may have been the best player on the pitch but he was part of a team. Altidore last year has scored 5 goals by this point. We had 8 goal scorers.

    We aren't using our players well.

    Gio this year 8 goals 5 assists from 11 games TFC has scored 14 goals total, Gio directly involved in 13 of 14
    last year 5 Goals 6 assists from 11 games TFC had scored 17 goals total, Gio directly involved in 11 of 17

    Last year 15 goals against and 16 points after 11 games (5-5-1) (GD +2)
    This year 12 goals against and 15 points after 11 games (4-4-3) (GD +2)

    we were two points up on last years point total after 7 games and now we are 1 point down after 11 which means all the changes in the offseason have result in basically a net zero gain. We are not a better team this year than we were last year.
    Totally disagree, we are much better than last year with Johnson, Irwin, Moor, Beitashour all upgrades from last year.

  13. #103
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    Im actually blaming the players on this, they are passing poorly, allowing balls to be interfered with, not covering men, not taking the extra step in some circumstances. The last two games players looked shook/nervous for the first 25, thats not on Vanney.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by habstfc View Post
    Totally disagree, we are much better than last year with Johnson, Irwin, Moor, Beitashour all upgrades from last year.
    But are we? if the issue we are having scoring continue (ie it all comes from a single source) we are better defensively but are we any better as a whole. If you have about the same points, and the same goal differential how is that effectively better? You have just traded fewer goals scored for fewer goals against. Which is a net zero gain.


    Like I say I'm not ready to say the sky is falling.. but thus far we are no better off than we were this time last year. It could improve for sure.. I mean we have only scored more than one goal in 4 out of 11 games and are on pace for only 43 goals in the season which would be bottom 3rd last year. and about .5 goals less a game than last year. The defensive side has us on pace for 37 or so goals which is much better and could be enough if they are in the right places.

    There is cause for concern. That concern is in one place. Because. You are right, we are on paper a better team defensively and not that much different offensively as such we should be able to do significantly better than we are. It could be the injuries.. it could be Vanney.

    Which means coming into a period were we will likely lose Seba for 4 league games, Bradley for 3 league games and both Bradley and Seba for 2 league games.. we will see what Vanney is made of.

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    It might be tim to revive the original name for this thread. Other teams have improved since the season started - that's the sign of a good coach. We have declined steadily to the point of shambles today. We should have been riding high after our first homestand...

    The most important appointment a soccer team makes is the coach.

  16. #106
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    when are we going to get rid of these 2 ass clowns.1 win in the last 6 games in which 4 were at home.oh yah i forgot we are a better team on d now.the only prob is we cant score anymore and we still suck on d.same crap diff year.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    Im actually blaming the players on this, they are passing poorly, allowing balls to be interfered with, not covering men, not taking the extra step in some circumstances. The last two games players looked shook/nervous for the first 25, thats not on Vanney.
    Coach has to be a motivator and has to have them prepared. We've had multiple games now where we came out sluggish. It's not a good sign.

    He also changes tactics constantly; as a player, I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be playing six different formations in the first eleven games.

    I'll say this: Bez got us Giovinco, so even if he hasn't built enough depth into the team, he won't be the one on the block if we're not in the hunt at the break.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    Im actually blaming the players on this, they are passing poorly, allowing balls to be interfered with, not covering men, not taking the extra step in some circumstances. The last two games players looked shook/nervous for the first 25, thats not on Vanney.
    Blame the players, sure, but if the belief is they are better than this than the coach goes.

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    I think the main reason we showed a better defense in the away games is Bradley, or his new role in front of the back four. He definitely absorbed a lot of pressure and allowed the defenders to keep their composure. Once we got home, Bradley was probably told to go forward and the we started to allow goals. Without Bradley, we're in shambles again, everyone in the back makes mistakes....as seen against NY.
    In my opinion, this situation just shows how limited Vanney is as a coach. He's just average at best even in the MLS context, clearly incapable to adapt his game plan to a specific roster situation or even opponent.
    We really need to start looking for a real coach. Not rush at all, maybe let Vanney finish the season, but get it right. I don't 't think Vanney can take this team to next level. He had his chance, it's time to move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post

    I'll say this: Bez got us Giovinco, so even if he hasn't built enough depth into the team, he won't be the one on the block if we're not in the hunt at the break.
    Bez was the St Bernard with $30M in a barrel around his neck.

    Leiweke got the $30M.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by marquis View Post
    I think the main reason we showed a better defense in the away games is Bradley, or his new role in front of the back four. He definitely absorbed a lot of pressure and allowed the defenders to keep their composure. Once we got home, Bradley was probably told to go forward and the we started to allow goals. Without Bradley, we're in shambles again, everyone in the back makes mistakes....as seen against NY.
    In my opinion, this situation just shows how limited Vanney is as a coach. He's just average at best even in the MLS context, clearly incapable to adapt his game plan to a specific roster situation or even opponent.
    We really need to start looking for a real coach. Not rush at all, maybe let Vanney finish the season, but get it right. I don't 't think Vanney can take this team to next level. He had his chance, it's time to move on.
    you must have been watching different games than I was watching - there were times I thought Bradley was playing as an extra center half.

    I am now of the opinion Vanney should go. we did alright on the road in the first 8 games - alright, but not great. we could have masked that with a decent return from the 4 home games, but to only take 5 points was a disaster for any team harboring ambitions to do something meaningful. The New York City game for me was the last straw. we didn't really show any ambition against a team who started 0 designated players, and who then went out and shipped 7 goals at home the following week. we insist on playing the ball wide, but we use a diamond formation that limits our width. we're 6th in the East standings right now, and would be good enough for only 8th in the West. and bear in mind we have the League MVP and the US National Team Captain. That shouldn't be possible, never mind acceptable. At this rate, if we're lucky, we'll repeat last year and get bounced in the first round of the playoffs. but based on recent performances, I doubt we'll even do that.

    I was willing to give Vanney the year to prove me wrong, but I think a decision needs to be made to save the season and he should be given his papers now so we can have a proper coach come in with enough time to prepare for the Galaxy game.

    (hell of a first post, I know. Long suffering fan, first year season ticket holder. love the atmosphere at games, but frustrated at the football. life as a Toronto sports fan! only just discovered the forum, glad to be here now as my real friends are sick of hearing me prattle on about the team.)

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Setanta View Post
    I was willing to give Vanney the year to prove me wrong, but I think a decision needs to be made to save the season and he should be given his papers now so we can have a proper coach come in with enough time to prepare for the Galaxy game.
    Wait. You were willing to give him the entire season but it's THESE results that changed your mind?? The improvement and results from the away marathon were better than expected but it takes a month of home games that included a win and 2 draws to give up?

    And fuck the Galaxy game. We have 2 games v our rival in an elimination tourney now. I don't want someone new right now. They'd have a built in excuse.

    Also - Welcome to the board
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    I don't love Vanney, but lets have this discussion in September/October.

    Love him or loathe him, we are much better off just letting this ride through 2016.

    You can't just change Vanney, it's bigger than that.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I too believe letting Vanney go at this point is not going to make a difference right now , while I think Vanney is part of the problem the problems are bigger than just him. Moreover, yes this team had a great 8 game away start, they did very good for a team playing 8 games on the road, however, problems have been exposed with the lousy home stand and now the last away game. There is nothing right now that gives me hope that things will get better, more Likelyhood that things will get worse, However, can't see a change of coach right now making a difference really .

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    Right now is the perfect storm of bad form, injuries, absences and the lack of depth being highlighted. It's good that this is happening now instead of towards the end of the summer. There is still time for Vanney and co to right the ship. If they can't and this season finishes like last then cheerio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Wait. You were willing to give him the entire season but it's THESE results that changed your mind?? The improvement and results from the away marathon were better than expected but it takes a month of home games that included a win and 2 draws to give up?

    And fuck the Galaxy game. We have 2 games v our rival in an elimination tourney now. I don't want someone new right now. They'd have a built in excuse.

    Also - Welcome to the board
    Thanks!

    the away trip was average. 11 points from 8 games is an alright return, but factor in that it's all away games and yes, it's decent. Better than expected is by Toronto standards, which is a mindset that needs to be broken if the club is to be a major player in MLS. The home games were supposed to be a statement of intent for the rest of the season - we've been through our tough patch, we have two-thirds of our remaining games at our newly renovated BMO, lets see who can stop us. 5 points from those 4 games made it 16 points from 12 games, which kind of makes us irrelevant as far as a trophy is concerned. we're a long way off where we thought we were, or where we thought we should be.

    It's also the tactics. I just don't understand how we can play a diamond in the middle and then try to attack out wide. the formation narrows the team, the idea behind it is to probe through the middle and then swing it wide to a full back as a secondary option. we're not going through the middle at all this year, the instructions are to go wide early and often. what we're doing and how we're set up is entirely contradictory. the problems at the back clearly haven't been sorted out either, despite all the signings and fanfare that went with them, and we're now so one dimensional in attack that teams know if they shut down Giovinco, we're basically sunk, though it's easier said than done.

    The talent is better than the returns, Vanney's been there a while. It's time he was moved on, regardless of the Montreal games.

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Setanta View Post
    Thanks!
    the away trip was average. 11 points from 8 games is an alright return, but factor in that it's all away games and yes, it's decent. Better than expected is by Toronto standards, which is a mindset that needs to be broken if the club is to be a major player in MLS. The home games were supposed to be a statement of intent for the rest of the season
    Away trip was Average? It tied a LEAGUE RECORD for most points for an away start......

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    Bez should go before Vanney

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    Both Bez and Vanney aren't going anywhere until TFC is officially out of playoff picture.

    "
    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
    ."
    -Fort York Redcoat, on the state of TFC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carter View Post
    Away trip was Average? It tied a LEAGUE RECORD for most points for an away start......
    it was 11 points in 8 games, 1.375 points per game. hardly setting the world on fire. and it certainly wasn't backed up with all that much from the home stint that followed.

 

 

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