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    Damn. What an evolution in this thread
    Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy

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    He can stay another year.

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    I'm gonna be patient and give him at least the first ten games of next season, before I evaluate his performance. If the team's results don't improve, Preki is currently available and looking for a job.
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen View Post
    I'm gonna be patient and give him at least the first ten games of next season, before I evaluate his performance. If the team's results don't improve, Preki is currently available and looking for a job.
    Preki just announced as assistant coach for the Sounders. In vanne we trust !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen View Post
    I'm gonna be patient and give him at least the first ten games of next season, before I evaluate his performance. If the team's results don't improve, Preki is currently available and looking for a job.
    I Wouldn;t judge him on that at all. Many successful teams in this league take the first half of the year to sign players and let injuries heal. Bruce Arena was notorious for his slow starts that usually ended up with his teams going into the playoffs fully healthy and in form.

    We're really gonna need to adjust our expectations for next season. We're not gonna top this past season. we're probably come back down to earth. Means probably not gonna the get SS.. We're probably not gonna make the MLS cup. We're gonna come back down to earth this season. We massively out performed some statistics that suggest we're going to revert to the mean next year. Other teams are going to get better and we'll move back to being pretty good instead of historically great.

    Regardless. Vanney has proven himself a winner. There's nothing I'd particularly argue he's bad at. He's a proven winner. He rotates the squad well to let the kids play. He cultivates talent well.He manages ego's better than most. Not a lot more you can ask for. Provided we're reasonably good under his tenure I'm give him a full two years before I evaluate our future. He's earned it.

  7. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    I Wouldn;t judge him on that at all. Many successful teams in this league take the first half of the year to sign players and let injuries heal. Bruce Arena was notorious for his slow starts that usually ended up with his teams going into the playoffs fully healthy and in form.

    We're really gonna need to adjust our expectations for next season. We're not gonna top this past season. we're probably come back down to earth. Means probably not gonna the get SS.. We're probably not gonna make the MLS cup. We're gonna come back down to earth this season. We massively out performed some statistics that suggest we're going to revert to the mean next year. Other teams are going to get better and we'll move back to being pretty good instead of historically great.

    Regardless. Vanney has proven himself a winner. There's nothing I'd particularly argue he's bad at. He's a proven winner. He rotates the squad well to let the kids play. He cultivates talent well.He manages ego's better than most. Not a lot more you can ask for. Provided we're reasonably good under his tenure I'm give him a full two years before I evaluate our future. He's earned it.
    Dude, your perspective is totally legit but the previous guy was being facetious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redpunkfiddle View Post
    Dude, your perspective is totally legit but the previous guy was being facetious.

    Ah, right then. I should have picked that up.

    Hard to tell on this forum sometimes.

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    I still find Vanney under prepared at times. Montreal debacle for example.

    I think teams have figured out the best way to play against TFC is on the counter with a heavy defensive form. As it is no long just shut down Gio.. it is shut down everyone because the goals can come from all over.

    Vanney is a much better coach than he was. I still have issues with him, but he has grown drastically. I think Concacaf coach of the year was a bit much but I know my opinion of him even now is lower than most. That being said it was a 18 months. How he handles CCL will be interesting. He has become the best coach we have had though and I can say that happily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    I still find Vanney under prepared at times. Montreal debacle for example.

    I think teams have figured out the best way to play against TFC is on the counter with a heavy defensive form. As it is no long just shut down Gio.. it is shut down everyone because the goals can come from all over.

    Vanney is a much better coach than he was. I still have issues with him, but he has grown drastically. I think Concacaf coach of the year was a bit much but I know my opinion of him even now is lower than most. That being said it was a 18 months. How he handles CCL will be interesting. He has become the best coach we have had though and I can say that happily.
    Is this being facetious also?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    I still find Vanney under prepared at times. Montreal debacle for example.

    I think teams have figured out the best way to play against TFC is on the counter with a heavy defensive form. As it is no long just shut down Gio.. it is shut down everyone because the goals can come from all over.

    Vanney is a much better coach than he was. I still have issues with him, but he has grown drastically. I think Concacaf coach of the year was a bit much but I know my opinion of him even now is lower than most. That being said it was a 18 months. How he handles CCL will be interesting. He has become the best coach we have had though and I can say that happily.
    Lol. I don't know if you are serious. If so it's proof that some people won't change their first impressions very easily no matter how much the evidence.

    The players themselves and Vanney's indicate that Vanney prepares meticulously for every match. As far as teams figuring out Giovinco, that would happen no matter who was coach. Vanney counters that by using Vazquez to break open teams when they double team Seba.

    CONCACAF coach of the year, although a relatively new award, is a huge honour. No MLS coach has ever won it before, it always goes to a Mexican coach.

    I'll grant you that Vanney learned on the job and early Vanney made dubious decisions, but he is now an experienced coach and one of the best in MLS. My concern would be losing him, he's going to get offers galore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I'll grant you that Vanney learned on the job and early Vanney made dubious decisions, but he is now an experienced coach and one of the best in MLS.
    Thing is, he doesn't make the same mistake twice very often (Spencer being the one that comes to mind, but a year ago I would have said the same about Delgado or Zavaleta).

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    I'd argue that a major point of satisfaction for any ambitious coach is to build up a below calibre player - whether getting them to play above expectations or merely fitting well tactically with their teammates. As frustrated as people get with Spencer starting over others (or Endoh as a wingback), Vanney will likely continue doing this. As long as it isn't over repeated games I'm fine with it being a part of his development as a top level coach.

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    2015 #vanneyout
    2016, final. "ok, we went to the final, but it's only because of Bradley and Giovinco"
    2017, triple champs *crickets
    2018, CCL run. *crickets
    2018, players injured, team tanks. #vanneyout

    IMO, a part of the reason TFC won the treble was because of "the Gregfather." It's fine enough to have good players, it takes a good coach to get the best out of them.

    I'm not about to demand that he be thrown overboard, especially as there is an obvious explanation, apart from coaching, why the 2018 regular season has been so poor.

    One thing people mention is that the players seem demotivated. MLS is a streaky league. If you are winning, everything is good. If you are losing, heads go down and the team gets discouraged. Other highly respected coaches have had hangover seasons.

    So I stand by Vanney, the CONCACAF coach of the year, he didn't become garbage overnight, he's the same coach that won the triple with the team.

    https://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...ce=sh%2Fx%2Fim
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 07-14-2018 at 10:28 PM.

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    I completely agree with Oldtimer and I do have a message for Greg and the team because it isn't just the coach's fault.
    Here it goes it is time to ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tGL-buZ94Y
    http://www.onesecondleft.com/ Please visit the one second left blog that I contribute to.

    My MLS now includes Montreal... we needed someone to hate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    2015 #vanneyout
    2016, final. "ok, we went to the final, but it's only because of Bradley and Giovinco"
    2017, triple champs *crickets
    2018, CCL run. *crickets
    2018, players injured, team tanks. #vanneyout

    IMO, a part of the reason TFC won the treble was because of "the Gregfather." It's fine enough to have good players, it takes a good coach to get the best out of them.

    I'm not about to demand that he be thrown overboard, especially as there is an obvious explanation, apart from coaching, why the 2018 regular season has been so poor.

    One thing people mention is that the players seem demotivated. MLS is a streaky league. If you are winning, everything is good. If you are losing, heads go down and the team gets discouraged. Other highly respected coaches have had hangover seasons.

    So I stand by Vanney, the CONCACAF coach of the year, he didn't become garbage overnight, he's the same coach that won the triple with the team.

    https://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...ce=sh%2Fx%2Fim
    Well... I've been fairly consistent.

    However if he is the coach others say he is... why is it that he can't find away to get this time to stop giving up goals in the First 20 minutes of the first half (often the first 10) the first 10 minutes of the second half (often the first 5) or a second goal within 10 minutes of the last.

    These three things account for a majority of the goals this year. You would think coach of the year after this many games at some point in the last 6 months would have noticed and said.. maybe we should work on this. We need to work on our awareness and fix the mind set that is allowing this... We'd be at, or above the red line right now if it wasn't so common. One of those three things happens almost every game. They happen to every time on occasion but not almost all games.

    Orlando for example has allowed 6 goals before 20 minutes this season. 3 of which have been PKs. and allowed 4 goals within 10 minutes of the last. (several of those in 4 or 5 goal against games) That is out of 42 goals against.

    Toronto has allowed 7 goals in the first 10 minutes this season, which jumps to 10 when you expand to the first 20 minutes. (3 of which were 2nd goals). We have allowed 3 additional goals that were 2nd goals after the first. Plus we have 7 more goals scored within the first 10 minutes of the second half 4 of which in the first 5 minutes.

    That is 21 of 38 goals against.

    These things happen to other teams just not to the extent they happen to TFC. If Hagglund and Zavaleta should be with the team and should have been let go in favour or more capable defenders than they should be able to do the job better than they have been. They can't. Which is sad I like Hagglund I've always been unsure of Zavaleta. Both could grow into better players in the next few years but if that is the case we still needed a centre back in the off season which we didn't get so we ended up resigning Hernandez who clearly isn't capable.

    The fact we haven't seen much in a tactical change to adjust for the constant errors in the back resulting in early goals because this teams has been shaky since February in the first 10 minutes of both halfs. Is I'm sorry on the coach... because when it comes down to it and we look at the CCL of the 8 goals we allowed during that run. 2 were allowed in the first 20 minutes in the finals. 1 was a second goal with in 10 minutes of the first and 1 was in the first 10 minutes of the second half. 50% of the goals against. 1 other was at the 21 minute mark.

    46 Goals Against in CCL and MLS
    25 of which should have been prevented

    More than 50% of our total goals against have come from goals in the first 20 of the first half, first 10 of the second half or with in 10 minutes of a second goal. Coach of the Year Vanney hasn't been able to stop it from happening as often as it is as such it cost us the CCL title and will likely cost us a play off spot if something isn't done soon. It is a bad coach that shrugs his shoulders and says oh well injuries nothing I can do so I'm just going to keep doing the same thing.

    I don't know it is right to fire him during the season as I don't know if it will solve anything.. but Bez and the FO should be looking for a replacement... though it maybe MLS has changed enough that Bez may need to move on too.. but it is too early to say that he only screwed up with 75-80% of the decisions this year. His position is easier to learn through. Vanney benefited from Bez a lot in the last few years... This year Bez messed up a bit and Vanney's real ability is showing through. At least that is how I see it.


    However the response will be.. You always hated Vanney and Injuries blah blah blah as we want to bury our head in the sand and look at the wrong issue. In years pass it was fire the coach rather then bring in the right front office and get a good team together to play. Now it's not the mediocre coach that is the issue it is the injuries..

    Yes the injuries are showing how mediocre the coach is. Lets use or position and get a good coach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post

    Yes the injuries are showing how mediocre the coach is. Lets use or position and get a good coach.
    So you are saying that when TFC won the triple and had the most points in MLS history it had nothing to do with the coach, that all TFC needed was a "mediocre coach" to win it all?

    I don't buy it, but then fine. If it's true that it has nothing to do with the coach, the coach doesn't matter. So why would you fire him? This team can win on it's own when it is healthy. Which gets back to my point that the problem is injuries, not coaching.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Blaming the coach while multiple starting and top players are out, performances of some who were good or great are now weak (Giovinco, Bono), and then admitting that some players, including at the back are not good enough just shows the lack of basic understanding and analysis ability..''this many goals conceded in the start of games or halves..Vanney needs to work on that to improve..Zavaleta and Hagglund cant do better than this'' 1-as if a coach wants to concede goals in start of halves or anytime at all and doesnt work on that 2-claiming these cb's cant do better..well ok you just found a big part of the answer on conceding, and then look at the performances of the players around: Bono giving awful rebounds and badly positionned etc.

    This is a situation where its mostly about the lack of quality of players available and underperformance of those who have the quality. Vanney made mistakes but its not the reason for this situation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    So you are saying that when TFC won the triple and had the most points in MLS history it had nothing to do with the coach, that all TFC needed was a "mediocre coach" to win it all?

    I don't buy it, but then fine. If it's true that it has nothing to do with the coach, the coach doesn't matter. So why would you fire him? This team can win on it's own when it is healthy. Which gets back to my point that the problem is injuries, not coaching.

    And that is the false logic I have come to expect. The Players were such that they were able to take the formation that was being played and won it all. Now that you are missing a few key players the coach has no idea how to deal with the players he has. It has impacted the mind set of the players as well. More so the odds of having this many players injured at once with a good medical staff and not being over trained also a coaching decision.

    This season has shown his weaknesses in strides. The same weaknesses I've said he has had. He is not a good coach. He is a one trick pony that was handed great players and used a system that at the time wasn't common in MLS. MLS teams didn't know how to deal with it and with the pieces we had it worked well. Now we are missing the pieces for that Formation but he has no capability to take the team into a different formation, he has no idea how to win with the players he has.

    If this is the greatest team in MLS history with the deepest roster in MLS history with Coach of the year then we shouldn't be making the same mistakes game in and out and the COACH should be able to have a solution for dealing with an issue that has existed for 6 months. Even if it is preki ball defence. He has just thrown his hands up and said oh well. That is bad coaching... what is worse is TFC fans have done so too.

    You don't have a record where AT LEAST 25% of the goals against should have been preventable for other teams with similar defensive issues if the Coach is doing the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    And that is the false logic I have come to expect. The Players were such that they were able to take the formation that was being played and won it all. Now that you are missing a few key players the coach has no idea how to deal with the players he has. It has impacted the mind set of the players as well. More so the odds of having this many players injured at once with a good medical staff and not being over trained also a coaching decision.

    This season has shown his weaknesses in strides. The same weaknesses I've said he has had. He is not a good coach. He is a one trick pony that was handed great players and used a system that at the time wasn't common in MLS. MLS teams didn't know how to deal with it and with the pieces we had it worked well. Now we are missing the pieces for that Formation but he has no capability to take the team into a different formation, he has no idea how to win with the players he has.

    If this is the greatest team in MLS history with the deepest roster in MLS history with Coach of the year then we shouldn't be making the same mistakes game in and out and the COACH should be able to have a solution for dealing with an issue that has existed for 6 months. Even if it is preki ball defence. He has just thrown his hands up and said oh well. That is bad coaching... what is worse is TFC fans have done so too.

    You don't have a record where AT LEAST 25% of the goals against should have been preventable for other teams with similar defensive issues if the Coach is doing the job.
    Ok I will bite and respond to the bolded parts of your comments...

    Point to a team in the MLS that has had 2/3 of their CB's injured for the majority of the season, a major piece in the midfield hurt for most of the season and a DP striker that been out for most of the season? BTW that's 45% of the starting 11 and that's excluding Auro and VDW who were expected to play important parts this season. But I guess that is Vanney's fault they are hurt. You can't sit here and say it was the players that win a game and the coaches fault when they loose. When Vanney went from a 3-5-2 to a 4-4-2 diamond in the finals has nothing to do with him I guess the players decided to that. Is Vanney perfect no, but to blame only him why we have been terrible all year is a joke period. BTW who would you hire? I remember everyone and their next door neighbor wanted Jason Kreis, I see that went really well for Orlando

    Here's a crazy idea, instead of blaming Vanney how about put in on the players who are actually on the pitch???? The mental mistakes are all on them not the coach. Bono letting in terrible goals, defense not closing down, the midfield letting players walk right through them, Seba missing PK after PK, strikers not being able to finish chances.. Yup those are all Vanney's fault

  21. #1161
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    Ok, I'm trying to get your point, I think I got it.

    You're saying:

    "If we have good players, winning an all time record has almost nothing to do with the coach (except that he got lucky with his formation). It's pretty much all on the players, the coach is crap.

    But if we're playing our "C" team and don't win, it's all on the coach. He should play preki ball or some other strategy to somehow win."

    I don't buy it. Vanney, when he has his full team has shown quite a bit of technical sophistication. That's not just my opinion, that's the opinion of Molinaro, Larson, and some other sports journalists. Plus as much as CONCACAF doesn't have the best rep, naming Vanney coach of the year (even though he didn't win the CCL) is a huge honour.

    I know none of that will convince you. I'm not sure what any coach that you have taken a dislike to can do to change your mind, if winning the treble won't do it. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's a minority view.

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    I do blame Vanney for one thing:

    When this team decided after 2015 that it would focus on defence first, it spent weeks working as a team to make sure everybody was on the same page. Yes, our defence got better. What we didn't realise is how much the team started to rely upon Drew Moor barking out defensive play calls like a middle linebacker.

    Either this team has to learn to play defence as a unit without that marshalling or somebody else has to take over that role.

    That is on Vanney. The team needs to reset its approach to how players think defensively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    Ok I will bite and respond to the bolded parts of your comments...

    Point to a team in the MLS that has had 2/3 of their CB's injured for the majority of the season, a major piece in the midfield hurt for most of the season and a DP striker that been out for most of the season? BTW that's 45% of the starting 11 and that's excluding Auro and VDW who were expected to play important parts this season. But I guess that is Vanney's fault they are hurt. You can't sit here and say it was the players that win a game and the coaches fault when they loose. When Vanney went from a 3-5-2 to a 4-4-2 diamond in the finals has nothing to do with him I guess the players decided to that. Is Vanney perfect no, but to blame only him why we have been terrible all year is a joke period. BTW who would you hire? I remember everyone and their next door neighbor wanted Jason Kreis, I see that went really well for Orlando

    Here's a crazy idea, instead of blaming Vanney how about put in on the players who are actually on the pitch???? The mental mistakes are all on them not the coach. Bono letting in terrible goals, defense not closing down, the midfield letting players walk right through them, Seba missing PK after PK, strikers not being able to finish chances.. Yup those are all Vanney's fault
    .
    well said, how you can blame Vanney for this season is ridiculous. he was a genius last year now he is crap, yeah right

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    What we didn't realise is how much the team started to rely upon Drew Moor barking out defensive play calls like a middle linebacker.

    Either this team has to learn to play defence as a unit without that marshalling or somebody else has to take over that role.

    That is on Vanney. The team needs to reset its approach to how players think defensively.
    I actually put that one on Bez. He should have brought in a defensive marshall instead of rolling the dice on Aketxe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I actually put that one on Bez. He should have brought in a defensive marshall instead of rolling the dice on Aketxe.
    Reports had Aketxe to be Vanney’s choice, so I blame none of that on Bez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I do blame Vanney for one thing:

    When this team decided after 2015 that it would focus on defence first, it spent weeks working as a team to make sure everybody was on the same page. Yes, our defence got better. What we didn't realise is how much the team started to rely upon Drew Moor barking out defensive play calls like a middle linebacker.

    Either this team has to learn to play defence as a unit without that marshalling or somebody else has to take over that role.

    That is on Vanney. The team needs to reset its approach to how players think defensively.
    100% agree. Resolving the backline issues are at the core of getting things going in the right direction again.

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    On that note, just read this in Kloke's new article about Canadian soccer

    https://theathletic.com/433716/2018/...outh-coaching/

    Vanney said he has witnessed the lasting effects of youth coaching in Major League Soccer. He said he has seen new TFC players who do not understand what a defender’s relationship should be with their partner defender in a 2v2 situation.
    “They should have covered that by the time they’re 10 years old,” said Vanney. “Yet they’re showing up to a level where we expect that to be correct and it’s not. Because it’s just overlooked. Because we’re so focused on what our shape looks like. Tactics mean nothing if you can’t defend properly. There has to be a greater appreciation of that.”
    No wonder we don't have any defenders....some have come here with no clue.

    Vanney is only in for 3 paragraphs and the article is quite good about Canadian soccer development.

  28. #1168
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I do blame Vanney for one thing:

    When this team decided after 2015 that it would focus on defence first, it spent weeks working as a team to make sure everybody was on the same page. Yes, our defence got better. What we didn't realise is how much the team started to rely upon Drew Moor barking out defensive play calls like a middle linebacker.

    Either this team has to learn to play defence as a unit without that marshalling or somebody else has to take over that role.

    That is on Vanney. The team needs to reset its approach to how players think defensively.
    This. In 6 months he hasn't done that.

    It goes further than that. Even with Drew Moore on the pitch they weren't doing that though. You say it in the first home CCL match. Colorado put pressure on the team barely made it through the opening 20 minutes when other teams need to let off the gas if they want to make it through the whole game. Everyone was basically healthy then. There was an issue then.

    In 6 month where there has been a clear defensive issue nothing seems to have been done or has been effective.


    People who say oh it was injuries keep trying to twist my words.


    It is simple. Last season an injury happens and everyone says that we are the deepest team in the league. Zavelata could start on any MLS team. This year we lose two defenders and all of a sudden the team can't win due to the same three issues (all of which are mentality and team work issues... which is the responsibility of the coach). No one wants to blame the coach. the Vanney Defenders can't accept he has never been a great coach.


    He is a Mediocre coach that was handed a great team. Last year we had people go down but apparently the people that went down had replacements. When I suggested that in the off season that Zavelata shouldn't have been protected over Edwards and only was because of family ties everyone went on about how Zavelata is an great defenders would start on any team in MLS... yet when asked to step up he couldn't. This off season we brought in Wingers, we brought in a midfielder and we just traded a decent defender. Yet we haven't brought in back up. We play with three defenders Drew Moore in the centre, Chris on one side and then either of the 25 years olds on the other. With one of the wing backs able to fill in if we lose two.

    We had 4 players to fill 3 positions. 2 of which clearly weren't ready to do it. Yet we protected one of them and did nothing to bring in cover. The best that Bez and Vanney did was bring in Hernandez back who clearly wasn't good enough either...



    So last year Zavelata and Hernadaz were good enough to start on any team in the league... now they are back ups that aren't ready to lead on their own. Which is the logic of the Vanney defenders.

    The Reality is the formation works very well when you have the right players on the pitch. However this season we have seen months of the same mistakes being made over and over and over again. All with the same players we have had in years past. Yet nothing has been fixed.. The Coach of the Year could not get the team to play defensively. Other teams play a very high pressure game against TFC because it causes mistakes and turn over and results in goals. All season long it has happened time and time again. Play high pressure at kick off. Play high pressure second half. Play high pressure after you score. TFC Folds. Because the Coach hasn't done anything successfully to deal with it in MONTHS.

    Lets look at Chicago last night. A low table team that is generally not a high pressure team. We didn't let in any goals in the first 10 minutes or the first 20. Check. We scored in the first 10 minutes of the second half... allowed no goals in the first 10 of the second. Check. When a Goal did come we didn't allow a second within 10 minutes. Check. Instead we scored the goal. Check.

    However After the first goal from Chicago we very very did allow the second instead we were able to counter on the failed attempt and scored our second instead.

    3 main issues. Those issue occur TFC rarely get points. Those issues don't TFC win. They didn't they won.

    As for people that says.. What other team could loose so many players... well the simple fact is... if Zavaletta was good enough to be protected over a up and coming Canadian and Vanney and Bez felt his position didn't need a TAM Backup like we did in other positions well then he should be good enough to start in Orlando whose back line without injury shouldn't be any worse than ours with. Yet they allow 25% fewer goals in the same situations. And that is with a bad backline that does allow those kinds of goals.

    That means Orlando with a poor defence right now is better than TFCs defence. A good coach the coach people claim Vanney to be, would have say the issues, saw the stats and been working on fixing it. Would have gone defence first and got the boys working together. Instead he didn't. He basically just shrugged his shoulders and said in a Eeyore voice "Whatcha gonna do... injuries"

    We are starting to get players back. Hopefully things can be turned around.. but Vanney has needed to go for years and as much as I know it won't happen I can only hope this off season they are looking.... I hope they are looking now.

  29. #1169
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    Kaz, you refuse to give Vanney credit for literally anything, so it becomes impossible to take anything you say without a giant grain of salt. That is the basic issue here.

    And I'm sorry but your argument didn't really explain how injuries haven't been our main problem, if anything it kind of reinforced it. Zavaleta and Hagglund have never been line-leading CBs and have always relied on more experienced partners to be effective, and with those partners they can be effective starters, as we saw last year. This season they have largely had to be line leaders due to Moor and Mavinga being out injured. And the 3 issues that you mention didn't happen vs. Chicago... well we finally had a near full-strength lineup.

    Our depth was never tested to this degree last year. Last season we usually got by missing 2-4 starters. This season has been more like 6+ starters out, over half the squad. It's not comparable. You may have noticed the Sounders, also coming off an MLS Cup appearance, have been just about as bad as us and, surprise surprise, have been similarly decimated by injuries. They are the proof that in a salary cap world you can only endure so much.

    We played well against more talented teams in CCL with a fairly healthy roster. We've struggled in MLS with tons of injuries. Now we've won on the road with a fairly healthy roster again. There would seem to be a correlation. I've had some issues with things Vanney has done this season but it's clear the injuries have hurt us way more than anything Vanney has done. If anything, Bez needs to take some heat for making a luxury signing in Aketxe and letting Beitashour go instead of strengthening other areas so that we could have mitigated some of the damage in terms of dropped points due to all these injuries. But I have no problem giving him some leeway here due to his brilliant record in the previous 2 seasons.

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    Calling for Vanney’s head when we recently shattered just about every record and won the MLS Cup just doesn’t stand up. I get it that some folks don’t like him no matter what the team does.
    Last edited by Thomas; 07-22-2018 at 06:05 PM.

 

 

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