He evaluated that eastern conference trophy for a long time last night.
He evaluated that eastern conference trophy for a long time last night.
He's pretty good... I guess...
hahahahaOriginally Posted by TFC/Everton
#Vanneyout
I put this in the game thread but it belongs here:
Something that really has me shaking my head is that we played them 5 times, and even though we got those two late goals in Montreal, we never really broke them down in any game until the first goal last night, which opened the floodgates.
We exploded their back four, 5 goals on crosses in 65 minutes.
That August game where Montreal beat us when we were up a man, we all ripped Vanney for sticking with crosses that weren't working. He knew something we didn't, I tip my hat to him.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
The timing of the Onalfo announcement in LA makes me wonder if the Galaxy waited to talk to Vanney first.
No way of knowing.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I didn't want to say this and rain on everyone's parade at the time, but I think we were extremely lucky vs. Montreal.
We scored 3 goals from set pieces. Those are really low percentage plays. We created very little from open play and Montreal seemed to be in control for most of the game. After Montreal scored their 2nd we couldn't get the ball back for 10+ minutes (when you'd expect us to be on the front foot pushing for a goal).
I thought we played better that 2nd half in Montreal.
It's a results-oriented game and right now Vanney is in the green. That's all.
This. He's learning on the job but he's improved and we have a solid system now. We need stability to build on what we have, rinse and repeat.
No one knows the system better than Vanney. And that is why he alone can fix it.
We play possessive football, understand how to recycle possession and what really impressed me was that we can pass out of a high press without hoofing it up the pitch.
4 in the back, 3 in the back, it doesn't matter. Just play to your strengths and Vanney for all intents and purposes did that.
Losing to a shootout in the MLS Cup is as good of a result you can ask for, and Vanney did all he could to get a goal in extra time. Bad luck factors more into wins and losses than coaching.
Maybe we can put the Vanney out stuff away for a season? For the first time in history the club has (a) had succcess and (b) stability. I think he's earned a season without pissing and moaning from armchair coaches.
Nobody here is pissing and moaning, not in a long time at least. Some people are "evaluating" -- mostly positive. That's the name of the thread. If you don't like the thread anyway, then don't open it.
You're right. I worded that too strongly and it was inflammatory given what is fairly mellow discourse about Vanney right now. I think ultimately I am hoping that the first time things get challenging next season, there aren't people clamouring for his head.
Cheers! This off-season looks to be strangely calm in TFC land. At least it's a short off-season, and the Argos seem to be doing their part to manufacture some outrage to tie us over.
Oh yeah. That was massive horseshoes.
But, set pieces or not, we beat them in the air repeatedly. That was perserverance of the right kind.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Vanney is very fortunate to be holding the reigns of a team thats loaded with talent and depth. That's all I will say.
He had a huge hand in molding the talent and depth. He didn't just luck into it, he and Bez built it together.
See, I always thought this is about Bez anyways.
If Vanney is just lucky, then Bez deserves the credit for assembling the guys, and he has the right/luxury of picking his man.
That's just how it works.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
HAHAHAHA
he didnt exactly find them all hanging out behind the home hardware then think 'I wonder if these guys play football'.
Why dont you want to give him any credit?
Moderator
Bez and Vanney are both a-okay in my books, for the moment. It'll be nice to have zero coaching or management controversy to argue over.
The players showed they will play hard for Vanney, and Vanney showed a ton of improvement in terms of sub management and tactics. Bez has assembled a good team.
It's all good.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Think its both of them together
i.e. There is no scenario that Vanney will get any favour.
Given the history of this club, I would say that it is us who are very fortunate to have a coach who can lead a team that's loaded with talent and depth.
I can name you seven previous coaches (who had the team more than two months) who would have found ways to be horrible with this team. More than half of those wouldn't have even accepted the signing of a player like Giovinco, much less played him. Or have we forgotten about how Joao Plata was chased out of town? First round picks were traded for Eric Hassli because they couldn't be bothered to look for their own DPs and because no one had the imagination to even propose signing big money DPs.
When Vanney shortened his bench for the playoffs, I was pretty impressed how he managed to have the players not playing to still feel like they are a part of the win by scouting and playing at being the other team in the playoffs.
Another thing that is not counted highly enough is the ability to manage players earning $60k working with those earning millions. Even Jason Kreis struggled with that in New York, he works much better when the whole team is roughly much more equal like he built with Lagerway at RSL.
So generous. The praise is overwhelming. Glad to see there's no bias in the face of facts.
Remember: That's all you will say...
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I disagree with Ronzilla but he is not "out of line". Every coach of a successful team gets this criticism. You can never tell where talent ends and luck begins. Mourinho, Ancelotti, Pep, they all hear this, how their track record comes from the players/teams, and not anything they are doing. All the time.
Vanney got better, but the thing that changed TFC from a top tier team into a championship team was the summer signings. Without Cooper and Ricketts we would have gone out against NYCFC, imho.
Vanney was dealt a good hand, but he played it well, too, as others have said. It's not easy, except in hindsight.
Last edited by ensco; 12-15-2016 at 10:24 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Vanney was on a short leash at the start of the season for me. He really needed to do something big to get back in my good books. IMO - he's won job security for this year.
We were Supporters Shield contenders right up until September and we made an MLS Cup final...oh and Canadian champions as well...Now we need to maintain this winning attitude
Things he did well:
- Decent start to games:I think this is where he was strongest. For the most part TFC seemed to play a decent 50-65 minutes
- Played kids and bench players and didn't get burned for it: remember that stretch in the year when we didn't have Altidore or Bradley and Gio was on his goal drought? (June 18 - August 3) - a 1 month span of playing kids and odd balls and we were still able to get points and not fall too far down the table. Any other TFC year and the season would've been done for by August.
- Understands his players - Clearly has a good grasp on what the players can do, where and when they are best suited to play.
- He's built a system of football that isn't formation based!!!!! - We've been crying for this and now we are starting to see it come to fruition. 3-5-3 seems to be our strongest, but we have a couple other formations we can pull from and still play a decent game! i love it
Things he Needs to improve:
- In game tactics - This is his downfall. Takes him way too long to switch things up. He comes out of the second half ok with his tactical changes, but he's about 5-10 minutes too late with his in game subs and changes. We get 2-3 more results and possibly an MLS Cup with earlier changes.
- Learn to use Seba in different ways - Seba should be used as an attacking mid when he gets tired. His through ball and passes to forwards would be better than subbing him off.
Last edited by jabbronies; 12-15-2016 at 11:08 AM.
Moderator
Absolutely. Hey, I know at one point I was ready to call for Vanney's head, but you said the key word here: Improvement. Vanney has undoubtedly advanced as a coach. With Bez running the math and Vanney on the sidelines, I think we're only going to get better as a club. By the way, Jabs totally hit the nail on the head in the post above me that I never really considered. We are starting games much, much better. Definitely more proactive play and we're adapting to opponents quicker. Good point, Jabs.
Last edited by Cashcleaner; 12-15-2016 at 11:03 AM.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
LA also had an elite with an MLS elite coach and yet we did better than them. Vanney's an alright coach and improving, i'm fine with that.
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