Vanney will stick around (with what happened with Kreis) : http://m.torontosun.com/2016/08/11/v...l-stick-around
Vanney will stick around (with what happened with Kreis) : http://m.torontosun.com/2016/08/11/v...l-stick-around
Malleable opinions, data evidence, rhetorical fouls and a F*ckin 4 game winning streak!!
I was beginning to believe in Vanney but now back to meh! Good with kids - that's it.
Winning streak with bottom feeder teams - then ties with Last place in West Houston with man down, Bono saved their ass too.
Same strategy as San Jose Game, ball crosses in the box but takes Altidore and puts in fast winger Ricketts? Should have put in Hamilton on for crossing strategy!
This shows poor coaching tactics.
5 games unbeaten, road point under tough conditions, countless injuries, and Vanney is meh? Lol
give me a break.
Yes, let's keep in Altidore and risk his season for the sake of 2 points.
Funny... I don't remember any posts by you praising anything about Vanney.Originally Posted by smtavare
From the match thread:
I think what Vanney does need to do is learn how to break down bunkering teams. I'm not sure his team would have beaten Preki's TFC. That's an area for growth. however, that's not enough to call for his firing. That's just further room for growth.
All managers (even the best in the world) have embarrassing games, so one single tie (not even loss) shouldn't cloud the picture, especially in MLS where parity is so strong.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Sorry, but in no way is Vanney responsible for the draw.
Handcuffed by 2 injury subs in the first half.
If Altidore's lunging chance is a few inches to the right, we're not even having this discussion. The players had an entire half of being a man up to get one measly goal.
2nd in the East, 5 games unbeaten and only TWO losses since May 28.
Can't believe how fickle some are, it's kind of embarrassing.
If some people on this boards expectations were followed and accepted in worldwide football there would be about 300 manager changes per month. Or more. There'd be a minimum of 20 a month in MLS alone.
Last thing I want in MLS is Serie A style manager carousel. So frustrating to observe
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
I've avoided weighing in on this situation but I wanted to add something given the recent draw.
So what if the subs were used in the first half? I fully understand taking Altidore off considering he's just getting back into it, no sense rushing. But why are so few of our players afraid to take a shot from 20 yards? That to me is a coaching issue. What good would other substitutes be if they just stick to the same game plan of long balls to Giovinco and crosses from wingers that can't cross?
Funniest thing is that we've done that method before and we all know how that worked out. Since we stayed firm, we've had our best results in our history so what should we do? Go back to the old method of changing managers and philosophies for no good reason again.
My biggest frustration again was seeing crosses from flanks into a set defence that's dominant in the air, and TFC didn't have anyone who's aerial threat in the box. TFC has trouble breaking down a bunkering defence and almost lost again last night on counters.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
I'm still mad at Vanney for SJ game, but if we get a new coach now or at the end of the season, the new coach will want his own guys and tactics and start all over again. No manager (at least ones considered an 'improvement' over Vanney) is going to agree being handicapped being dictated what players he is going to have.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
This is a problem with how we're playing for sure. The commentators last night, while terrible, were right in the fact that we have a lot of players who overlook shots from the top of the area that could maybe go in but would at least pull some defenders forward to unpack the box. The cross and hope for the best thing was the SJ downfall and what stymied us in the last 20 minutes last night. Almost would have been better for us to drop back, pack the midfield, and hope to hit on the counter.
If it's a choice between Morgan for Morrow or Endoh for Hagglund, I would have chosen the later move last night. The fact we couldn't do that hampered us.
That and Bloom crosses and passes way better than Hagglund.
So, yes, those two forced subs hampered us.
We are 10-7-7, which is not great given the payroll. We threw a lot of points away in May and June. You have to normalize somewhat for injuries, but of course every team has injuries.
You need the full season to make a call on Bez/Vanney. I am very happy that we have been playng better, but no way would I be prepared to extend Vanney based on the win streak. Nor will I be suicidal if we lose the next two road games.
This isn't exactly about results. In a playoff system, good teams can lose on the day, and vice versa. Bez/Vanney's job are to have TFC be an elite team in October, a legitimate contender that every team is afraid to play. Anything short of that is failure.
In particular, we need to see what Plan B is when good defensive teams shut Gio down, by any means necessary, as they surely will. I want to see fear in the eyes of defenders when Osorio or Altidore or whomever gets the fall in space because the opponent has been keying on Gio. Larsun and others are claiming it's there now, but I don't see it. Right now we only go as far as Gio takes us.
Last edited by ensco; 08-15-2016 at 06:50 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I said Meh, not to fire him, geez bring out the pom poms already
Vanney's great, they are great, we're are almost in first, let's plan the parade.
Its just an opinion
It seems you are not allowed to have one in these forums without being attacked
TFC owe me for 9 years invested, they still have done nothing yet
Last year they only made the playoffs because an extra spot was added.
They still have a lot to prove.
When Sebastian Giovinco wins games by himself it was all Vanney, but when they tie against last place 10 men team, it was the players, whatever
- that's my opinion and I'm entitled to one
Not sure there are other teams with 2 DPs out due to injuries for as long as we have had. Injury weeks to starters is really high on this team this season.
Not going to get into the salary performance discussion again - the assumptions of that argument are flawed given the variables involved in this weird away heavy than home heavy season.
Oh, and saying your opinion is wrong does not = saying you can't have that opinion.
Saying my opinions are wrong is wrong, disagreement with them and having your own I'm fine with.
So let's just leave it at that
I think you're confused.
When you reference facts as opinion you (as everyone else) it's subject to clarification.
You say the team hasn't done anything. That's wrong. It's a fact they've won things.
Your OPINION is that it isn't important enough to warrant. Fair enough.
But all the sarcasm doesn't help your case above. I don't see these attacks you mention but I do see your pom pom remark.
Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 08-16-2016 at 09:16 AM.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
If I was to grade Vanney's performance at this point, I would give him a B. He has done an admirable job keeping the team in the hunt with many inexperienced newcomers forced into regular duty as a result of injuries, but I expect more out of this club with a healthy starting lineup.
Fair enough, I'd give a B minus because while he's done great with the kids and the defense is (mostly) strong, he hasn't worked enough on how to break down teams that bunker and he hasn't worked enough on shooting for our secondary players. Sure "pass to Gio or Altidore" might be a good strategy 80% of the time, but you need options when they aren't free of defenders and you are the one that can get a shot. There also needs to be more varieties of strategies when plan A fails. Not just plan B but there should be a plan C because you never know when a key player will be sent off or have injuries, or the other team's coach will react in an unexpected way.
So while he is as good as an average MLS coach by now, I want better. We have an elite team and he needs to grow into an elite coach that can contend for the MLS Cup. I think he has the ability to get there and seems willing to learn, but I want to see continuous improvement and Manning should be demanding that.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-16-2016 at 08:47 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Agreed. But I think a large chunk of this goes on Bez for the way the roster is constructed.
I'd give Vanney around the same grade you did, Bez slightly lower.
That's probably one of the most underrated stats in team sports. Man games lost to injury.
The year the Tampa Bay Lightning won the Stanley Cup, they had a ridiculously low number of man games lost to injury amongst their starters, it was maybe 50 overall or so for the entire season.
I'm still incredibly surprised as to how well this team is performing even with all the man games lost to injury for Altidore, Bradley, Johnson, Cheyrou, Irwin, etc.
LA galaxy has 7 DPs, Bruce Arena, and increaible
depth. TFC is 1 point behind them.
TFC is not Barcelona.
Our problem is we have no experience of being even freaking Columbus. All these seasons of not doing what every other team but NYCFC and Orlando has done means our reference points for judging success tend to be top division Europe = apples to oranges unfortunately. If we and all these other teams were in the EPL or La Liga or Seria A or L1 or the Bundisleaga - Vanney isn't good enough for where this team wants to be. But, none of these teams are.
I'd give Vanney a 75 - a B. Bringing along the defence and the youth well but we do seem to go through periods of x happening and no ability to respond. He gets the opening tactics right most of the time. But it takes weeks for him to get points into the heads of the forwards.
I blame this on his less than lively personality. The words are probably there but not the voice to drive it into their f*cking heads.
And we've had the opposite of him in Mariner. Big mouth, loud personality driving oodles of mindless gibberish into the player's heads and resulting in no one having a clue what they're supposed to be doing. Unless of course what we saw was exactly what he wanted. Who knows? He's nuts anyway.
Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 08-16-2016 at 04:10 PM.
The only reason Bradley was there, Vanney added, is because TFC originally thought Sebastian Giovinco would play-make from midfield — where he started in Vancouver last season before moving to forward.
Still don't understand how this ever happened. Seba told himself he is a fwd first
youre missing my point... And by talking about not having experience like columbus, are you somehow refering to our history as having anything to do with how you're rating Vanney?
What I mean by Barcelona results is that winning 99% of the time is realistic. This league, this salary cap, doesn't allow for that - you're well aware of that. Every team has crappy results, every team has bad days.
Dallas got blown out 4-5 times this year; As did NYCFC. TFC has the highest PPG in the east, with missing 4 or more starters for 8 games, and you're giving Vanney a B-?
You guys have unrealistic expectations from that a team was 95% different just 58 games ago.
When Irwin, WJ, Bradley, and Altidore went down, I was certain that we'll be scraping the basement floor - yet TFC is second in the east, and won the Amway.
Last edited by Ivy; 08-17-2016 at 03:44 AM.
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