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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC View Post
    For all the frustration with Bono, that's not the weakest area. The midfield is not working and won't until Bradley and Johnson are back. Even then, I don't know how much to expect from them for the first few games starting.
    True but I see a goal being a problem because of how everything else has been going. We can't score and haven't scored at a good pace all season, injuries or otherwise. We can squeak out results and our clean sheets surely helped. I don't think we'll be seeing too many more clean sheets with Bono so we'd better get the offense up to at least having a few matches with 2 goals scored.

  2. #482
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    This podcast is not about soccer per se (it's about educational philanthropy). But it's very worthwhile because it discusses at length soccer and basketball, as polar examples of "strong link" and "weak link" problems (to oversimplify, there is lots of evidence that in basketball, you can only be as good as your strongest player, and in soccer, you are only as good as your weakest player).

    http://revisionisthistory.com/episod...undred-million

    TFC as constructed by Leiweke/Bez is the epitome of a strong link team, and no coaching change will change that.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC View Post
    For all the frustration with Bono, that's not the weakest area. The midfield is not working and won't until Bradley and Johnson are back. Even then, I don't know how much to expect from them for the first few games starting.
    To me that makes our midfield better but it still lacks the offensive punch required. We have lots of money tied up in 3 guys (Cheyrou, Bradley, Johnson) that are hard to play together and really don't balance each other out. It's just relying on their pedigree, which is passable but not ideal.

  4. #484
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    I want to say quickly that tonight's performance doesn't change anything.

    Gio got his mojo back. The first goal off a free kick helped a lot. The Second goal came directly because we were playing as a team and not relying on just Gio... plus the renewed confidence. The Third was again Old form Giovinico on a free kick and the last goal was again Gio not being swarmed because you had a hungry Altidore and Ricketts forcing defenders to actually play against all three and all three in the box.. having actual numbers so it isn't 1 or 2 on 5 helps.

    To me it changes nothing. The players not the coaching won that game. If Gio was still in a drought it would have been a whole other game even if the end result may have been the similar.

  5. #485
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    Not that this change won the match but there was a lot less aimless crosses which was a welcome change. At first I didn't know Osorio was ill and I thought Chapman got the start on merit but I suppose maybe not. Vanney now has more options with Altidore back and Ricketts on the roster. Looking forward to what he rolls out next weekend.

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    I want to say quickly that tonight's performance doesn't change anything.

    Gio got his mojo back. The first goal off a free kick helped a lot. The Second goal came directly because we were playing as a team and not relying on just Gio... plus the renewed confidence. The Third was again Old form Giovinico on a free kick and the last goal was again Gio not being swarmed because you had a hungry Altidore and Ricketts forcing defenders to actually play against all three and all three in the box.. having actual numbers so it isn't 1 or 2 on 5 helps.

    To me it changes nothing. The players not the coaching won that game. If Gio was still in a drought it would have been a whole other game even if the end result may have been the similar.
    This.

  7. #487
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    So when we play well it's all on the players but when we play badly it's all on Vanney? There's some middle ground there, surely.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    I want to say quickly that tonight's performance doesn't change anything.

    .
    Actually getting the midfield to go forward into space with the ball and force their mids and defenders to backtrack, as against pinging it around the back and then attacking out wide with hopeful crosses into our 5 foot 4 MLS VP striker....that is not an on field decision. That's a properly prepared team.

    Compare and contrast that game to the one against Chicago (much the same sort of team) and we can see where the management happened.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Actually getting the midfield to go forward into space with the ball and force their mids and defenders to backtrack, as against pinging it around the back and then attacking out wide with hopeful crosses into our 5 foot 4 MLS VP striker....that is not an on field decision. That's a properly prepared team.

    Compare and contrast that game to the one against Chicago (much the same sort of team) and we can see where the management happened.
    Does it though? DC plays aggressive football. They gave no space... I think you are just taking confidence and mistaking it in your kool-aid haze for coaching.

  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    So when we play well it's all on the players but when we play badly it's all on Vanney? There's some middle ground there, surely.
    Here is the middle ground:

    Giovinco scoring free kick goals, or not scoring free kick goals, has nothing to do with Vanney.

    The breakdowns on the DC goal might have something to do with Vanney, though. Not sure.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    Does it though? DC plays aggressive football. They gave no space... I think you are just taking confidence and mistaking it in your kool-aid haze for coaching.
    If Vanney craps something, I'll say it. But suggesting last night was all on the players would require me to ignore what I saw.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    Does it though? DC plays aggressive football. They gave no space... I think you are just taking confidence and mistaking it in your kool-aid haze for coaching.
    Kaz attack the topic not the user, please, and cool the Kool-aid talk.


    You believe it's all the players that make this team. That's fine. That's the opinion your free to without namecalling.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post

    The breakdowns on the DC goal might have something to do with Vanney, though. Not sure.
    As could every goal we concede. Maybe.

    I'm being facetious. I think it's easy to overestimate the influence of a coach/manager on a team's performance.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23724517

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    Quote Originally Posted by PopePouri View Post
    As could every goal we concede. Maybe.

    I'm being facetious. I think it's easy to overestimate the influence of a coach/manager on a team's performance.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23724517
    To put it in Simon Kuper's words, "you can replace the manager with his secretary or a teddy bear and no one would notice". Wins and losses are often strongly correlated to wages spent and quality of the team itself.

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by noimpactinmtl View Post
    To put it in Simon Kuper's words, "you can replace the manager with his secretary or a teddy bear and no one would notice". Wins and losses are often strongly correlated to wages spent and quality of the team itself.

    Two words


    Short Pants

  16. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by noimpactinmtl View Post
    To put it in Simon Kuper's words, "you can replace the manager with his secretary or a teddy bear and no one would notice". Wins and losses are often strongly correlated to wages spent and quality of the team itself.
    Kuper is really good at a lot of things. Tactical analysis and talent evaluation aren't part of his repertoire though. Historically this may have been true, but the game is far too tactical now to actually be able to make that case.

  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Kaz attack the topic not the user, please, and cool the Kool-aid talk.


    You believe it's all the players that make this team. That's fine. That's the opinion your free to without namecalling.
    What attack.. he defends everything Vanney lately.. that is purely a comment on his general point of view. If that is name calling... the standards have significantly changed.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    What attack.. he defends everything Vanney lately.. that is purely a comment on his general point of view. If that is name calling... the standards have significantly changed.
    Yes. There's no need to comment on the user at all. And I'll point it out to anyone using Kool-aid to say a user can't say anything negative and I have before.

    There are people who agree with you who haven't brought other users personally into the discussion.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

  19. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    Kuper is really good at a lot of things. Tactical analysis and talent evaluation aren't part of his repertoire though. Historically this may have been true, but the game is far too tactical now to actually be able to make that case.
    I don't think that's the overall consensus of people in football statistics. Even so, this year NYRB lost 6 out of 7. It wasn't because of their tactical set up or because Jesse Marsch was uninspired. Same goes for Sigi.
    Last edited by PopePouri; 07-24-2016 at 02:41 PM.

  20. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopePouri View Post
    I don't think that's the overall consensus of people in football statistics. Even so, this year NYRB lost 6 out of 7. It wasn't because of their tactical set up or because Jesse Marsch was uninspired. Same goes for Sigi.
    Both coaches could have done more to get the best out of the roster they have. Especially Sigi. He set his team up tactically and the overall structure of his roster in a way that didn't work. That's on him.

    I don't know how to embed tweets so I'll just quote him. This is the best way I've seen it put.

    "talent is the best starting point. But superior talent without clear, concise tactical identity doesn't win in modern football"

    - Doyle
    Last edited by molenshtain; 07-24-2016 at 02:53 PM.

  21. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    Both coaches could have done more to get the best out of the roster they have. Especially Sigi. He set his team up tactically and the overall structure of his roster in a way that didn't work. That's on him.
    In what way? They have no creativity through midfield, they lost Martins and they've been affected Dempsey's form/absences. Sigi can't control that.

  22. #502
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    This is all like saying you can just throw a ball out there and that will be enough. I get the viewpoint but tactics do mean something.

    E.g. Portland last year before they discovered Nagbe would make a decent AM.

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    I think hes a good coach, he's incredibly smart about the game, I think the players respect him, he's commanding, but likeable, if its not broke dont change it, and he will be remembered in my books whether hes here or not down the road

  24. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    This is all like saying you can just throw a ball out there and that will be enough. I get the viewpoint but tactics do mean something.

    E.g. Portland last year before they discovered Nagbe would make a decent AM.
    It's not that. It's just that it's easy to overvalue a managers contribution to a result.

  25. #505
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    Hey all, it's been a while.

    My attitude towards Vanney was 'I don't think that he is the guy, but I would love to be proven wrong.'

    I think that he has proven his detractors wrong.

    Look at what he gets out of the reserve squad.

    No manager in TFC history has been able to put up 5 games with 8 points with four key players missing and fielding 3-4 players that aren't even hitting our cap.

    I'm pretty impressed.

    Remember, six of our last eight games are home games.

    We are going to finish well, possibly even get the bye.

    Cheers

  26. #506
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    I still feel the same. He is not getting enough out of this team. We have played very well at times, but we have unperformed as much as we have met or exceeded expectations. This is a team that should be doing better in this league.

    I am not calling for this head, because he seems to be improving, what we need is a long stretch of consistent on the pitch form. The win bought him some time in my books, but lets talk after 3-5 games.
    Last edited by trane; 07-25-2016 at 11:55 AM.

  27. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abou Sky View Post

    Remember, six of our last eight games are home games.

    We are going to finish well, possibly even get the bye.
    We have to finish with the bye. Anything less is failure. Anything less and we are not contenders and have not moved forward from last year.

  28. #508
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    ^ I agree. We came out really well, but then we got back to the same place we were last year. We need a really good run to get us over that hump.

  29. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    ^ I agree. We came out really well, but then we got back to the same place we were last year. We need a really good run to get us over that hump.
    That might have to do with the fact that we've been missing several key starters for most of the last couple months. Vanney's done a decent job with what he has.

  30. #510
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    ^ Again he is doing a decent job when the team is in full strength, but he should be doing better when it is not, and probably better when it is. He has improved, but we could improve on him. Once again, if he had lost Saturday, I would be pushing to replace him, simply because we are almost at the point that had we kept of backsliding the season could have gone down the drain, but only if a coach with a proven track record was found. With the win he has bought himself some time, but it has to be followed up with several good performances and POINTS.

 

 

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