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  1. #301
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    BEZ hired him...he got to go also

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    BEZ hired him...he got to go also
    If Bez signs Tosaint Ricketts as a solution he should go

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    ...nobody had a frigging clue what to do while a man up.
    Oh, they knew what to do with a man up....that's why they scored. They had no freaking clue what to do when they were 2 men up. Honestly, does ANYBODY think of how to play that? I bet you that was the first time anybody but maybe Cheyrou have been in that situation as a professional.

    The offence as a whole is the issue, not the plan on the day.

  4. #304
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    any true futbol club in the world would of fired bez and vanney after that crap at the end of last season.but not this club.

  5. #305
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    In all my years of playing and watching competitive soccer. lmao.
    I cannot recall a more abysmal performance lol, from putting a centerback as forward who if you ranked his qualities, ability to control the ball, would rank last, to 27 crosses from Endoh...lmao.
    I cant, I just cant. too much meat on the bone..i gotta get to bed I give up lol
    Last edited by Vendetta; 07-17-2016 at 12:07 AM.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Yes, there was a lot wrong. As others have said, the offence has largely died off.


    And, I tell you what is likely going to happen:

    In the cold light of the day, the result will be seen as an aberration.


    • 3rd game in 7 days
    • 2nd road game in 75 hours
    • injuries
    • Western away game
    • Rookie goalie mistake
    • We are 6-7-6

    -
    That's how management thinks and will see it.

    BUT, I can also tell you that this will push Bez into buying some offence Hopefully he gets an AM cause Chapman, Endoh, Delgado and Osorio just are not good enough. My fear is he goes for width with speed or another striker.

    But Vanney is not going to be fired over that one game.


    Oh, and a friendly reminder that we all saw how he changed things up in Columbus and people liked what he did there.


    They better win on Saturday, and better have some goal scoring.
    It's evident that Vanney can't motivate. He's not an idiot when it comes to tactics, but he can't motivate his players to execute his plan. He doesn't inspire his players to play hard. It's individuals that bust their balls once in a while. If there is need for a Sir Alex Ferguson hair dryer moment, it's after tonight's game. But I don't think Vanney can command respect of his players.

    Games like this can break a team's morale. I'm going to bet that TFC comes out flat next game.

    Tonight's result should have never happened, regardless whether Bono gaffed or not. TFC should have scored at least 2 goals up 2 man for 40mins. Failure to execute a game plan (if there was any) is up to Vanney. If the players aren't listening to the coach, it means the coach can't manage his players and he should get sacked.
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

  7. #307
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    #vanneyout is trending on twitter now...tfc have made the big time.

  8. #308
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    this match is all on vanney's head!!!!!
    TORONTO FC, 2017 MLS CHAMPIONS!!! (Still the greatest in league history!)

  9. #309
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    Vanney and Bez are directly at the heart of the issues.

    Gio has been off for most the season because he has so much pressure on him and no one is doing anything to take it off. The COACH isn't doing their job by making sure the players play as a team and not the Seba support squad.

    The Defense is better however the offense is bad.

    We have had these issues since the beginning of the season. It was clear by Portland at the beginning of May that we had serious issues. That is before the injuries. We have no drive to score, we have no attacking team work. The only time we play as a team is to defend the rest of the time it is get the ball to Seba. That has not changed..

    Seba hasn't scored a goal in 10 games.

    In fact since May 1st (the Portland game when I said there is a clearly a problem) Seba has scored in just one game (a brace)

    Top Scorers since May 1st.

    Hamilton 3
    Morrow 3
    Giovinco 2
    Johnson 2
    Moor 2
    Endo 1


    Our Defensive plays are scoring as often as our offensive players. That isn't good. Jordan Hamilton, Justin Morrow and Drew Moor seems to be our primary offensive players. In fact tonights goal was all defenders. That isn't normal. That is all on the coaching staff.

    We were coached into this mess. All the offensive fire from last year has be put out and left with this horrid strategy. Yes we have had injuries but injuries happen. Gio has been healthy Hamitlon has been healthy.. most of the attack has been as well. Bradley, Altidore and more recently Johnson have been the primary injuries and they shouldn't have had that major an effect on our offensive ability that it totally shuts down all scoring.

    Bradley hasn't been allowed to be offensive really this year like he was last year. Johnson is good but not crucial. Altidore wasn't scoreing anyway has he had no service. So you can't blame injuries as much as we like to pretend we can.

    This is all on the coaching staff. What he has gotten out of the young players is great.. but what he has gotten out of the team as a whole is total shit.

  10. #310
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    Is the deathwatch officially back on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Oh, they knew what to do with a man up....that's why they scored. They had no freaking clue what to do when they were 2 men up. Honestly, does ANYBODY think of how to play that? I bet you that was the first time anybody but maybe Cheyrou have been in that situation as a professional.

    The offence as a whole is the issue, not the plan on the day.

    Exactly. Offence has been sacrificed for defense. I'm not terribly upset about it because it's working. The only problem is that Jozy, Bradley, and Will are not playing so the offense is especially terrible now. Also wtf happened to Babouli and Hamilton? They basically disappeared. We were better without Giovinco in Columbus... wtf is going on here?

  12. #312
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    How do teams like Colorado and Philadelphia go from absolute shit and are now in first place in each conference after 1 fuckin season?

    And we after 10 years of embarassements are still shit?

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinamoTFC View Post
    How do teams like Colorado and Philadelphia go from absolute shit and are now in first place in each conference after 1 fuckin season?

    And we after 10 years of embarassements are still shit?

    Yeah, DC United did it a few seasons ago also.

    Honestly, the parity in the league is brutal.

    Only 7 points separate first from sixth place in the East and 12 points in the West.

    Realistically, first place in MLS means fuck all.

    As a league, we need to pay more for better players and soon, because the window of being one of the top 5 leagues in the world is quickly closing.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinamoTFC View Post
    How do teams like Colorado and Philadelphia go from absolute shit and are now in first place in each conference after 1 fuckin season?

    And we after 10 years of embarrassments are still shit?
    We are not shit. Houston, CBus and Chicago - that is this year's MLS shit. We are, currently, middle of the pack. 5th in PPG.

    The defence is good - one mishap in the first half where Beitashour got caught up and nobody followed the run. One in the second half when nobody closed down a single runner and Bono...well...I've seen a lot of flubs from Saunders and the like this season but that is right up there with the worst goalkeeper mistakes in MLS this year.

    The young midfielders do Ok offensively when given space and time - against an organized defence, they don't know what to do except look for little space between defenders, wait for a pass and then move onto another little space. As others pointed out, you beat a stacked defence by running at them. In essence, you put two guys in the box and then run your midfielders towards their back line. i.e. Do what Seba does.

    I see the team doing what Vanney wants. I see them adjusting to game states (as against Vancouver). What I don't see in the uninjured bunch we have right now going forward, with the exception of Giovinco and Hamilton,is players adjusting their offensive thinking to what is being provided.

    Osorio, Endoh, Chapman, Baboulli and Delgado are offensively naive. It works for them when given space but as many people on here have said, they all take too many touches. Not enough MLS experience up there of how to work through defences - Johnson has that as does Bradley but they are not Attacking Mids.

    The kids in midfield attack have been tried. Time to get in somebody who knows how to get through defences.

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    Im shocked that Vanney kept Endoh in there, he was obviously shaken every time he got the ball and the crowd boo'd the shit out of him. Who can stay focused and make smart decisions under those circumstances. For all his tactical knowledge, Vanney has zero people smarts. If we replace this guy it must be with a top shelf coach, better to keep him with his flaws than throw in another green replacement, we're a middle of the pack team right now. Let's hope he and this team learn from this game. Bono out.
    Last edited by mistercorporate; 07-17-2016 at 07:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    We are not shit. Houston, CBus and Chicago - that is this year's MLS shit. We are, currently, middle of the pack. 5th in PPG.

    The defence is good - one mishap in the first half where Beitashour got caught up and nobody followed the run. One in the second half when nobody closed down a single runner and Bono...well...I've seen a lot of flubs from Saunders and the like this season but that is right up there with the worst goalkeeper mistakes in MLS this year.

    The young midfielders do Ok offensively when given space and time - against an organized defence, they don't know what to do except look for little space between defenders, wait for a pass and then move onto another little space. As others pointed out, you beat a stacked defence by running at them. In essence, you put two guys in the box and then run your midfielders towards their back line. i.e. Do what Seba does.

    I see the team doing what Vanney wants. I see them adjusting to game states (as against Vancouver). What I don't see in the uninjured bunch we have right now going forward, with the exception of Giovinco and Hamilton,is players adjusting their offensive thinking to what is being provided.

    Osorio, Endoh, Chapman, Baboulli and Delgado are offensively naive. It works for them when given space but as many people on here have said, they all take too many touches. Not enough MLS experience up there of how to work through defences - Johnson has that as does Bradley but they are not Attacking Mids.

    The kids in midfield attack have been tried. Time to get in somebody who knows how to get through defences.
    This.

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    We are not shit. Houston, CBus and Chicago - that is this year's MLS shit. We are, currently, middle of the pack. 5th in PPG.

    The defence is good - one mishap in the first half where Beitashour got caught up and nobody followed the run. One in the second half when nobody closed down a single runner and Bono...well...I've seen a lot of flubs from Saunders and the like this season but that is right up there with the worst goalkeeper mistakes in MLS this year.

    The young midfielders do Ok offensively when given space and time - against an organized defence, they don't know what to do except look for little space between defenders, wait for a pass and then move onto another little space. As others pointed out, you beat a stacked defence by running at them. In essence, you put two guys in the box and then run your midfielders towards their back line. i.e. Do what Seba does.

    I see the team doing what Vanney wants. I see them adjusting to game states (as against Vancouver). What I don't see in the uninjured bunch we have right now going forward, with the exception of Giovinco and Hamilton,is players adjusting their offensive thinking to what is being provided.

    Osorio, Endoh, Chapman, Baboulli and Delgado are offensively naive. It works for them when given space but as many people on here have said, they all take too many touches. Not enough MLS experience up there of how to work through defences - Johnson has that as does Bradley but they are not Attacking Mids.

    The kids in midfield attack have been tried. Time to get in somebody who knows how to get through defences.
    You are right we are not Shit, we have a shit coach. Or a coach that is 80% good.. the issue is the 20% left over is complete and utter shit of monumental levels.

    We haven't been scoring all year. That is 100% on Vanney. Healthy players.. we weren't scoring. Injuries we aren't scoring. We aren't being blown out.. so it isn't all defense we are just not scoring. Jozy and Bradley not being on the pitch is the reason we are loosing and tieing instead of winning you are right.. because they take pressure of Gio and give service. The other 7 players (not in goal) weren't doing that. They can do that. they are capable. last year the 7 other players were doing that. This year they aren't. That is the coaching and the GM.

    There is no way around that. If GIO is being swarmed because he is the only goal scoring path for the team.. and you don't alter that.. that is on you.

    A good coach would have done something to take the goal scoring pressure of Gio and force other teams to defend the whole team. For example put Seba on the Wing. Oso in the AM role with Hamilton up front or just about anything other than what we are doing. Anything what will allow Gio to have less pressure, and he might actually score a goal once and a while. The fact Vanney week in and week out see's Seba as our only goal scoring channel is all on Vanney.
    Last edited by Kaz; 07-17-2016 at 09:37 AM.

  18. #318
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    Bez needs to go ...he's killing our best DP ever and doing absolutely NOTHING for him in this summer window. Not even going to start about grossly overpaying 2 DPs who don't even show up.

  19. #319
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    somebody on wiki changed his name from greg vanney to greg dumbass vanney...lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    You are right we are not Shit, we have a shit coach. Or a coach that is 80% good.. the issue is the 20% left over is complete and utter shit of monumental levels.

    ....

    And yet look a the standings and see guys like Heaps and Olson and Berhalter struggling below us and wonder if they are getting stick for their coach. Heck, we are 3 points behind Jesse Marsch's NYRB who everybody thinks is a young genius.

    Or how about Vermes out in KC? Or Sigi Schmid?

    Face it - coaches can only work with what they have and we got some now known limitations.

    "A good coach would have done something..." The list of formations and players that have cycled through our offensive schemes is getting longer each week. The lack of a decent attacking oriented playmaker is on Bez - they though they would do OK with the kids - hasn't worked out. One major reason is Seba will not play anything but the top attacker in a 2 man attack - he just won't and all the suggestions that he do so ignore that basic fact.

    Going into this season, the pundits all said the same thing - not sure how all those offensive pieces work together. Turns out, without Altidore and an AM, they don't very well with teams who are organized in the defensive midfield.

    Thankfully, 7 out of our 9 opponents in the East are not great at the DM spot.

    We are 4 wins, 2 losses and 5 ties against East opponents, having played only 3 games at home against the East. We have to start getting points against those teams starting next week. We fail in the next 3 games, then Vanney is likely gone after the NER game.

  21. #321
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    I have been critical of Vanney appointment from day 1. Still, Greg actually did his best to improve our game on the 'our' 2/3 of the field, and that is where his expertise as a player showed up. I have never before seen reds so confident on the ball starting a build up. Having such a magician as Cherou helped a lot there as well.
    But we have not made any progress in the final 1/3 of the field. While it would help having a AM equivalent of Cherou, our attacking players are not ambitious enough, and overly relying on a single player. This is so obvious, I am surprised our coaching staff has no balls to deal with this.
    Vanney has to find a conviction to drill this team to death to be successful with possession, cause we will achieve nothing without this part of the game.

  22. #322
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    I believe the players will tell us through their play when the coach has to go. Thus far I haven't seen anything to make me think the players have issues with the plan, until last night. But unfortunately, there were a lot of problems on display, which means they might be more widespread than we've seen so far.

  23. #323
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    I agree that we'll know when the team has given up on Vanney the same way they gave up on nelson. At that point, there's not even any point of a coach continuing on to the end of the season. They'd better have an interim manager waiting in the wings and get a new coach in the off season. That said, even if Vanney makes it through to the end of the season, if it ends without significant improvement to the final position, then I think he'll have shown the limits of his ability and will be let go at the end of the season.

    To that end, I still like the idea of getting Marc Dos Santos as the next head coach. He knew how to motivate players, had a great tactical system, and I'd love to see what he could do with MLS-calibre players.

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    Down a goal with 15 minutes remaining and vanney subs off Hamilton for a fucking CB. This guy is fucking clueless. Open your eyes people.

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronzilla View Post
    Down a goal with 15 minutes remaining and vanney subs off Hamilton for a fucking CB. This guy is fucking clueless. Open your eyes people.
    Not excusing it but he did play the CB at forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    And yet look a the standings and see guys like Heaps and Olson and Berhalter struggling below us and wonder if they are getting stick for their coach. Heck, we are 3 points behind Jesse Marsch's NYRB who everybody thinks is a young genius.

    Or how about Vermes out in KC? Or Sigi Schmid?

    Face it - coaches can only work with what they have and we got some now known limitations.

    "A good coach would have done something..." The list of formations and players that have cycled through our offensive schemes is getting longer each week. The lack of a decent attacking oriented playmaker is on Bez - they though they would do OK with the kids - hasn't worked out. One major reason is Seba will not play anything but the top attacker in a 2 man attack - he just won't and all the suggestions that he do so ignore that basic fact.

    Going into this season, the pundits all said the same thing - not sure how all those offensive pieces work together. Turns out, without Altidore and an AM, they don't very well with teams who are organized in the defensive midfield.

    Thankfully, 7 out of our 9 opponents in the East are not great at the DM spot.

    We are 4 wins, 2 losses and 5 ties against East opponents, having played only 3 games at home against the East. We have to start getting points against those teams starting next week. We fail in the next 3 games, then Vanney is likely gone after the NER game.
    We should be a team as strong as those in the West. That means we should be top of the table. We are closer to sitting in last place than we are the Supporters Shield.

    I don't know you are related to Vanney or something but you are defending something that shouldn't be defended. This issue was clear 2 1/2 months ago. If he didn't see this issue at the beginning of the season he isn't good.

    It is that simple. Bez and Vanney have both failed.. and failed hard. Other teams don't have the pieces we have. When last year's team/league/golden boot MVP hasn't scored since early May there is something wrong.. and that is the Coach. There is no place else to put the blame. He has to do better and he isn't.. The idea that oh we are doing shit but it's ok because so are other teams.. I mean come on. I expect more from this team with the rooster we had last year and this year. We went from a team that could win the league with some defensive help to a team that might make the playoffs because of poor coaching and poor management

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    Quote Originally Posted by starter View Post
    I have been critical of Vanney appointment from day 1. Still, Greg actually did his best to improve our game on the 'our' 2/3 of the field, and that is where his expertise as a player showed up. I have never before seen reds so confident on the ball starting a build up. Having such a magician as Cherou helped a lot there as well.
    But we have not made any progress in the final 1/3 of the field. While it would help having a AM equivalent of Cherou, our attacking players are not ambitious enough, and overly relying on a single player. This is so obvious, I am surprised our coaching staff has no balls to deal with this.
    Vanney has to find a conviction to drill this team to death to be successful with possession, cause we will achieve nothing without this part of the game.

    Exactly.

    Well said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Not excusing it but he did play the CB at forward.

    Hagglund has played as a forward in college... plus he has height and can challenge for a ball in the air.

    To me, it's a reasonable substitution.

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonso View Post
    Hagglund has played as a forward in college... plus he has height and can challenge for a ball in the air.

    To me, it's a reasonable substitution.
    Zavaleta played as striker in college. More so than hagglund

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaz View Post
    we should be a team as strong as those in the west. That means we should be top of the table. We are closer to sitting in last place than we are the supporters shield.

    I don't know you are related to vanney or something but you are defending something that shouldn't be defended. This issue was clear 2 1/2 months ago. If he didn't see this issue at the beginning of the season he isn't good.

    It is that simple. Bez and vanney have both failed.. And failed hard. Other teams don't have the pieces we have. When last year's team/league/golden boot mvp hasn't scored since early may there is something wrong.. And that is the coach. There is no place else to put the blame. He has to do better and he isn't.. The idea that oh we are doing shit but it's ok because so are other teams.. I mean come on. I expect more from this team with the rooster we had last year and this year. We went from a team that could win the league with some defensive help to a team that might make the playoffs because of poor coaching and poor management
    fuckin this! Enough with all the apologists on here

 

 

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