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  1. #1711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    He's got the end of the season for me. Never a fan of mid or near end season removals unless it's absolutely necessary and tbh we wouldn't gain anything in the current situation
    Agreed, unless some unforeseen high-caliber coach is out there in the wings waiting, give him until the end of the season. At least it’s clean at that point.

    Now that said, if we do part ways after 2019 Curtis and Manning better have someone in ASAP. Let’s hope they are faster at finding a coach then they are at finding wingers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuliquE View Post
    Not sure about giving Vanney another 5 years, else this is exactly where I'm at with Vanney & co. (very well summed up).

    There'd be a lesson learned, for sure, as far as how the league punishes you for doing well (parity) and how that affects roster decisions.

    For me, though, we really can't afford to not have a respectable showing in the playoffs (at least win a game); hard for me to sit here and say he'd have to go, were we to fall short… but, as I've mentioned elsewhere, it would certainly be fair for his position, going forward, to be under review, in such an event.
    Haha...yeah I said 5 years but really I intended to mean I would give him more time (not necessarily 5 years) because replacing him end of season is not guaranteeing us anything for next season other than more talk about new direction and new plan with a new coach and he has to bring in his players and we all need to be patient etc. To me that is the old TFC all over again.

  3. #1713
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post
    Haha...yeah I said 5 years but really I intended to mean I would give him more time (not necessarily 5 years) because replacing him end of season is not guaranteeing us anything for next season other than more talk about new direction and new plan with a new coach and he has to bring in his players and we all need to be patient etc. To me that is the old TFC all over again.
    Fair enough, yeh.

    We're all still very tender from those days; "careful what you wish for," indeed.

  4. #1714
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Agreed, unless some unforeseen high-caliber coach is out there
    I had a nice delusional dream of Rafa for a little while until China dropped a truck of money on him.

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    A lot of talk about Fraser in this thread. Is that as high as everyone's aspirations go here?

    Call me a dreamer, but the club is owned by ML$E. So if Atlanta brought in De Boer why the hell can't we bring in Mourinho? Not like it's unaffordable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bl1vious View Post
    A lot of talk about Fraser in this thread. Is that as high as everyone's aspirations go here?

    Call me a dreamer, but the club is owned by ML$E. So if Atlanta brought in De Boer why the hell can't we bring in Mourinho? Not like it's unaffordable.
    I agree. This is one position where we don't have to worry about a salary cap. Spend big bucks to get a big name manager - that would be an ambitious move. I'm tired of rookies, too, to be honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    I agree. This is one position where we don't have to worry about a salary cap. Spend big bucks to get a big name manager - that would be an ambitious move. I'm tired of rookies, too, to be honest.
    Would be nice to get a guy similar to Almeyda, GBS, or Martinez as manager for their connections in their previous countries and for their scouting knowledge of potential recruitable players.

  8. #1718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Would be nice to get a guy similar to Almeyda, GBS, or Martinez as manager for their connections in their previous countries and for their scouting knowledge of potential recruitable players.
    I'd rather a coach like this who understands the league and continent(s) . Think a high priced Euro coach might struggle as DeBoer has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    I'd rather a coach like this who understands the league and continent(s) . Think a high priced Euro coach might struggle as DeBoer has.
    Atlanta is first in the East. If De Boer is struggling then we've already drowned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bl1vious View Post
    A lot of talk about Fraser in this thread. Is that as high as everyone's aspirations go here?

    Call me a dreamer, but the club is owned by ML$E. So if Atlanta brought in De Boer why the hell can't we bring in Mourinho? Not like it's unaffordable.
    You're a dreamer.

    No way he's coming here. No matter how much you pay.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-21-2019 at 06:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bl1vious View Post
    A lot of talk about Fraser in this thread. Is that as high as everyone's aspirations go here?

    Call me a dreamer, but the club is owned by ML$E. So if Atlanta brought in De Boer why the hell can't we bring in Mourinho? Not like it's unaffordable.
    Big name? I think they would struggle at this level. Look how Vanney struggles with weaker players. And Mourinho? Surely you are winding us up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    I'd rather a coach like this who understands the league and continent(s) . Think a high priced Euro coach might struggle as DeBoer has.
    But none of the guys I mentioned are European. All South American.

    Regardless, it doesn't matter. We get a new manager and he will be either from the NYRB chain or from the USMNT system. I see how we operate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Atlanta is first in the East. If De Boer is struggling then we've already drowned.
    Tbh he was having issues early on in the season, big portion of the players had trouble with his tactics. Not joking when I say that it could be in spite of him (look at the squad) rather than because of him. I'm still not convinced of him, happy to admit when I'm wrong and the season isn't done yet. Let's not forget the eastern conference is crap this season. Kinda tallest midget if you will

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    But none of the guys I mentioned are European. All South American.

    Regardless, it doesn't matter. We get a new manager and he will be either from the NYRB chain or from the USMNT system. I see how we operate.
    I was agreeing with you. Not sure where the confusion lies. When I said 'like this' I was referring to Almeyda etc
    Last edited by Ossington Mental Youth; 08-21-2019 at 08:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossington Mental Youth View Post
    I was agreeing with you. Not sure where the confusion lies. When I said 'like this' I was referring to Almeyda etc
    I missed the 'like this' line. Sorry about that but still, we won't do any move like this.

    I can see someone like Ramos or Sarachan because of their work with the USSF (and our addiction to acquiring as many USMNT people as possible) or a former NYRB academy coach that was there during his reign. Long and terrible options would be 'name' NYRB retired players like Henry or Cahill taking over but Curtis did do a good job with his one manager switch in New York.

    And I know people don't like Petke because he slurred that ref and took it way, way, way too far but if we wanted the anti-Vanney, a guy who brings passion and fire into the squad then that's the guy. Also won't happen because Curtis already dumped him once as soon as he could so that's that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    You're a dreamer.

    No way he's coming here. No matter how much you pay.
    I'm not so sure about that. One thing I learned in life is that money talks and bullshit walks. I'm sure Mourinho would prefer to work with an elite squad, but once enough zeros are added to the salary, that preference will fly out of the window real quick.

    Either way, I'm pretty sure that would never happen..just an interesting thought experiment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bl1vious View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. One thing I learned in life is that money talks and bullshit walks. I'm sure Mourinho would prefer to work with an elite squad, but once enough zeros are added to the salary, that preference will fly out of the window real quick.

    Either way, I'm pretty sure that would never happen..just an interesting thought experiment.
    I think a lot of the dissatisfaction with our last couple of coaches (not only Vanney) is based on the idea that someone like Mourinho would come here. Who wouldn't want that (although as has been pointed out they would probably struggle with the roster restrictions).

    The best way to bring such ideas down to earth is to look at Qatar, Saudi, and China, places with a lot more money than MLSE ever could dream of in Bell and Rogers dreams. How many EPL coaches have left Europe for those places? Exactly none that I know of. Or even Australia which would offer comparable wages to MLS? Nobody.

    Then coming to North America isn't even in the running. It's because unlike players, who have to maximize earnings over very few playing years, a coach can go on coaching to old age. So earning fast money like a Giovinco wants is way less a motivator than for a player. So what is a motivator? Glory. Winning the UEFA Champions League is way more valuable than an MLS Cup ever could be. So no, we're not getting Mourinho or Wenger, or Alex Ferguson coming out of retirement.

    So out of foreign coaches you get up and coming types who hope to use MLS as a spring board, and leave as soon as possible. Your other choice is MLS Assistants, a fired MLS coach like Montreal just did, or USL or US college coaches. Do you want to replace Vanney with Fraser?
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-22-2019 at 05:29 PM.

  17. #1727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I missed the 'like this' line. Sorry about that but still, we won't do any move like this.

    I can see someone like Ramos or Sarachan because of their work with the USSF (and our addiction to acquiring as many USMNT people as possible) or a former NYRB academy coach that was there during his reign. Long and terrible options would be 'name' NYRB retired players like Henry or Cahill taking over but Curtis did do a good job with his one manager switch in New York.

    And I know people don't like Petke because he slurred that ref and took it way, way, way too far but if we wanted the anti-Vanney, a guy who brings passion and fire into the squad then that's the guy. Also won't happen because Curtis already dumped him once as soon as he could so that's that.
    Oh I don't think we'd make the sort of coaching move you and I'd advocate for at all. Inclined to agree with you. More of the same sadly.

  18. #1728
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    Whenever we get a new manager I bet it's someone with USMNT ties, as player or manager. Seeing as it's an ongoing thing here for years it must be from Manning. Bez isn't doing it in Columbus and Curtis is too new. Could be Vanney as well but I think Manning.

  19. #1729
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bl1vious View Post
    A lot of talk about Fraser in this thread. Is that as high as everyone's aspirations go here?

    Call me a dreamer, but the club is owned by ML$E. So if Atlanta brought in De Boer why the hell can't we bring in Mourinho? Not like it's unaffordable.
    Well, Mourinho would be an interesting choice. If it follows the Special One's normal MO, the first year we'll win the Treble, the second year will see a drop in form, and the third year the wheels fall off and he's fired mid-season.

    As for Fraser, I've heard rumours he is up for a Head Coaching position at some point. So if Vanney goes, I bet he's gone to a new team by the beginning of next season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    Well, Mourinho would be an interesting choice. If it follows the Special One's normal MO, the first year we'll win the Treble, the second year will see a drop in form, and the third year the wheels fall off and he's fired mid-season.
    Well, at least Ashton Morgan will be able to say he's seen it all in his career.

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    Mourinho has made $50-100M the last 7-8 years.

    In my opinion - guys like this, there are only maybe 12 jobs in the world he would consider. He will wait for one of those.

    Seems to me that the right ambition is to do what SJ did and get a top Liga MX guy. There are always good ones available, managers last a year on average down there.

    Or what about Rainieri? He will seemingly go anywhere.

    Back to reality - don’t lose sight of Carl Robinson. He hasn’t landed post Vancouver, and every day his record there looks better.
    Last edited by ensco; 08-22-2019 at 08:55 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Mourinho has made $50-100M the last 7-8 years.

    In my opinion - guys like this, there are only maybe 12 jobs in the world he would consider. He will wait for one of those.

    Seems to me that the right ambition is to do what SJ did and get a top Liga MX guy. There are always good ones available, managers last a year on average down there.

    Or what about Rainieri? He will seemingly go anywhere.

    Back to reality - don’t lose sight of Carl Robinson. He hasn’t landed post Vancouver, and every day his record there looks better.
    Interesting. I like Carl and thought he was a decent coach- but not at Vanneys level. But he would fairly quickly put a line under the “we are going to play like man city” stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Back to reality - don’t lose sight of Carl Robinson. He hasn’t landed post Vancouver, and every day his record there looks better.
    This is a good point. When he was there I thought he was alright but nothing special. The aftermath of his exit and the new knowledge of the level of dysfunction there really says something about how he steered the ship with that mess above his head. He's be risky but would be better than Fraser I think.

  24. #1734
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Interesting. I like Carl and thought he was a decent coach- but not at Vanneys level. But he would fairly quickly put a line under the “we are going to play like man city” stuff.
    It's interesting. Vanney and Robinson have had similar periods in the role. Vanney's regular season W-L record is 89-71 and Carl's was 78-77. Carl did it in the west which was generally tougher and he never had close to the payroll Vanney had.

    But of course Robinson never had anything like the three playoff/CCL runs Vanney had.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Carl Robinson? Eww, no thanks.

    Not unless you want to see a talent like Pozuelo’s wasted

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Carl Robinson? Eww, no thanks.

    Not unless you want to see a talent like Pozuelo’s wasted
    So explain to me the production of attacking players like Techera and Blas Perez under Robinson.

    Serious question. These put downs of Robinson as an EPL throwback weren’t born out by the stats. Those Vancouver teams were mid table in scoring, with below mid table payrolls. In 2016, the peak Seba year, we had 51 goals, VWFC had 45 goals. VWFC spent $6.5M on players that year. We spent $22M.

    Edit: forgot Manneh. He was a beast for a couple of years there.
    Last edited by ensco; 08-22-2019 at 09:51 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I do think Vanney is gone by Monday if we don’t win this game.

    It's not what I want, but it's what I think will happen.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Mourinho has made $50-100M the last 7-8 years.

    In my opinion - guys like this, there are only maybe 12 jobs in the world he would consider. He will wait for one of those.

    Seems to me that the right ambition is to do what SJ did and get a top Liga MX guy. There are always good ones available, managers last a year on average down there.

    Or what about Rainieri? He will seemingly go anywhere.

    Back to reality - don’t lose sight of Carl Robinson. He hasn’t landed post Vancouver, and every day his record there looks better.
    I will be next level exhausted if we get Robinson. Legitimately would rather Vanney stay.

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    Robinson is a mid table manager. No thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I think a lot of the dissatisfaction with our last couple of coaches (not only Vanney) is based on the idea that someone like Mourinho would come here. Who wouldn't want that (although as has been pointed out they would probably struggle with the roster restrictions).

    The best way to bring such ideas down to earth is to look at Qatar, Saudi, and China, places with a lot more money than MLSE ever could dream of in Bell and Rogers dreams. How many EPL coaches have left Europe for those places? Exactly none that I know of. Or even Australia which would offer comparable wages to MLS? Nobody.

    Then coming to North America isn't even in the running. It's because unlike players, who have to maximize earnings over very few playing years, a coach can go on coaching to old age. So earning fast money like a Giovinco wants is way less a motivator than for a player. So what is a motivator? Glory. Winning the UEFA Champions League is way more valuable than an MLS Cup ever could be. So no, we're not getting Mourinho or Wenger, or Alex Ferguson coming out of retirement.

    So out of foreign coaches you get up and coming types who hope to use MLS as a spring board, and leave as soon as possible. Your other choice is MLS Assistants, a fired MLS coach like Montreal just did, or USL or US college coaches. Do you want to replace Vanney with Fraser?
    Benetiz just recently left Newcastle in PL to manage in China.

 

 

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