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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    We should be a team as strong as those in the West. ...
    No team in the East is, due to the continual coaching turnover. This does not mean that Vanney has to be kept but it does mean these things have to be thought through and not just done in a reaction.

    As for your assertion that nobody should have my opinion, it is possible to disagree on this issue. That's football discussion. I'm not the only one. (If you want an extreme, I saw some people on twitter suggesting Bono was unsighted on that shot)

    For the offence and defence balance, a couple of things come to mind. Seba had a blinder last season, especially when Jozy was around. But nobody but the back four was bothering to defend. They went with the decision to solidify the defensive responsibility, thinking the attack would keep firing - it hasn't. The balance is screwed up and the players who were brought forward to be chance creators are not doing the job.

    Now, which would people rather have - a good defensive base with some offensive changes needed or a good offensive base with the sort of shitty defence we have had until this season? The former is waaay easier to fix.

    ***

    Discovering which players are not up to snuff is what every team in this league is doing right now. Seattle has a DP forward with 1 goal and 1 assist.
    Some have more holes then others - SJE actually lacks chance creators and a plan other then put it across the middle for Wondo. There's a good chance they don't make the playoffs.

    We have holes in the midfield on the attacking side. Not enough runners who shoot, too many passers who can't move.

    The good management teams in this league kick on from here fixing stuff and moving forward. Bez earns his money in the next few weeks. If he doesn't, he'll be gone by the end of the season. Vanney has to figure out how to get more offence out of the people he has/will gain. If he hasn't by the NER game (next 3 home games), I think he's gone and most likely Robin Frasier takes over as interim.
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 07-17-2016 at 03:35 PM.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonso View Post
    Hagglund has played as a forward in college... plus he has height and can challenge for a ball in the air.

    To me, it's a reasonable substitution.
    You want to play a CB up front. Fine. Then do it, or pull a CB off.

    But subbing Hamilton off to do that is damn near a criminal offence.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post

    The good management teams in this league kick on from here fixing stuff and moving forward. Bez earns his money in the next few weeks. If he doesn't, he'll be gone by the end of the season. Vanney has to figure out how to get more offence out of the people he has/will gain. If he hasn't by the NER game (next 3 home games), I think he's gone and most likely Robin Frasier takes over as interim.
    Vanney is incapable of this.. he has had half a season.

    Which is why he needs to go.

  4. #334
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    Diamonds, shape, blah blah blah. I am tired of all this nuanced tactical BS - I have argued this for years here. That stuff doesn't matter. Guardiola plays an 0-10-0 with bumblebees. Formation is a sideshow. Players need to understand roles, pass and receive the ball quickly and effectively, and move into and out of space.

    The job of Vanney and Bez is to find, nurture and develop talent. The rest is conversation. This is a tier 3 league, any bloody system is fine as long as people know what the hell they are expected to do. Has Hagglund been practicing at forward? I doubt it. Even if he has, was that the right situation to introduce him in that role? We all know the answer to that.

    Together, Bez and Vanney are doing almost zero talent identification/development - we keep wasting assets on Gomez, Perquis, Kantari, Osorio is regressing (my nightmare is we cut him and he spends the next ten years beside Laba in Vancouver), Delgado is pretty marginal. Nothing is ever all one way or the other (Hamilton has shown signs, Chapman too), but on balance, we suck at player development.

    I haven't even got to the weird cap mgmt problems yet.

    Vanney has shown me occasionally that the guys will play for him, so I haven't written him off yet (but I am close). Bez has shown me nothing, other than his ability to be Leiweke's St Bernard, a role that no longer makes sense.
    Last edited by ensco; 07-17-2016 at 09:24 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  5. #335
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    i have no clue what bez does,it seems he cuts ribbons and kisses babies.does he go on scouting trips,nobody knows because the jurnos that cover this team never give us this kinda of info.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Diamonds, shape, blah blah blah. I am tired of all this nuanced tactical BS - I have argued this for years here. That stuff doesn't matter. Guardiola plays an 0-10-0 with bumblebees. Formation is a sideshow. Players need to understand roles, pass and receive the ball quickly and effectively, and move into and out of space.

    The job of Vanney and Bez is to find, nurture and develop talent. The rest is conversation. This is a tier 3 league, any bloody system is fine as long as people know what the hell they are expected to do. Has Hagglund been practicing at forward? I doubt it. Even if he has, was that the right situation to introduce him in that role? We all know the answer to that.

    Together, Bez and Vanney are doing almost zero talent identification/development - we keep wasting assets on Gomez, Perquis, Kantari, Osorio is regressing (my nightmare is we cut him and he spends the next ten years beside Laba in Vancouver), Delgado is pretty marginal. Nothing is ever all one way or the other (Hamilton has shown signs, Chapman too), but on balance, we suck at player development.

    I haven't even got to the weird cap mgmt problems yet.

    Vanney has shown me occasionally that the guys will play for him, so I haven't written him off yet (but I am close). Bez has shown me nothing, other than his ability to be Leiweke's St Bernard, a role that no longer makes sense.
    I'm south on both of them. Vanney adjusts occasionally now, which he didn't do in his first year, but he still makes bizarre sub decisions and he hasn't taught his players how to take initiative and drive the game; I take it heat is always an issue in California but we were so rigid, I have a hard time believing they're sufficiently motivated or drilled. We had a two-man advantage and didn't even overload in the box. We left guys back, like we were playing for the draw. Seriously. We should have ruthlessly finished them off in the first ten minutes after the second man went off.

    Bez, I think, keeps trying to follow plans without reacting properly to circumstance. We had a great offseason, but then let gomez go without having sufficient cover. We're counting way too much on Endo and Babouli, who should be getting rookie, get-your-feet-wet minutes. We left Hamilton out for way too long; he has serious issues with movement and work rate, but the lad can fucking finish, of that there is no doubt. We let Perquis go and as far as I could tell he only had one serious clunker so far this season, and was well improved next to Moor. I actually like Zavaleta and HAgglund, but again, these are guys who should be getting twenty, thirty minutes at this point, not starters.

    We're making bad personnel decisions and we're making bad roster decisions. With everyone healthy, we're a very competitive team. But we don't have that.

  7. #337
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    Looks like we're losing our best chance in years for an experienced, proven-successful replacement for Vanney, with Kreis in advanced discussions with Orlando. (Mentioned in the "Other MLS games" thread.) FML....

    Then again, I have serious doubts if Kreis would be interested in our dumpster fire, given the whole setup & history we have here.

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  9. #339
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    Who's ready for some VanneyOut news in the morning??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Who's ready for some VanneyOut news in the morning??
    Do you know about something that's coming?

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
    Guy must be a glutton for internal team intrigue.

  12. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Guy must be a glutton for internal team intrigue.
    He needs a job, his severance from NY probably ends soon.

    Can't see that I think Toronto or Atlanta would be different/better. Seattle, that would be worth waiting for though.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  13. #343
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    Well it's Monday morning and I am sure the team is back in TO now so my question is....why is Vanney still employed?

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alixir View Post
    Well it's Monday morning and I am sure the team is back in TO now so my question is....why is Vanney still employed?
    Cause only people on the internet expected him to be fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    who's ready for some vanneyout news in the morning??
    ready as can be

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  17. #347
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    i doubt it will happen.too much kumbaya in the front office and we have Ricketts coming.
    Last edited by reggie; 07-18-2016 at 10:53 AM.

  18. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    i doubt it will happen.too much kumbaya in the front office and we have Ricketts coming.
    And 3 starters in a month.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

  19. #349
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    true...but they were still around a 500 record with those guys in the line up.

  20. #350
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    The end of August seems to be the typical time when the coach turns into an ex-employee, so there is a while yet.

  21. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC View Post
    The end of August seems to be the typical time when the coach turns into an ex-employee, so there is a while yet.
    Renewals are important this year. Expensive roster and still gotta pay for that roof. They will use the new coach buzz in the winter to help drive up deposits. Useless if we do it now and continue to be stuck in the mud.

  22. #352
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    imo the time to fire is now or at the end of the season. Management needs to decide whether or not Vanney is the man now so that whoever replaces him if it comes to that has the transfer window to make some moves and time to work with the squad. Replacing Vanney at the end of the transfer window would be stupid.

  23. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    imo the time to fire is now or at the end of the season. Management needs to decide whether or not Vanney is the man now so that whoever replaces him if it comes to that has the transfer window to make some moves and time to work with the squad. Replacing Vanney at the end of the transfer window would be stupid.
    The question is who steps in the iterim, as well, as Fraser is Vanney's guy and vice-versa. Vanney was his assistant at Chivas and RSL. They're not going to leave on behind and fire the other. So maybe Bent, unless they have someone to offer to right away. In that respects, the prospects are limited by the usual concerns of MLS/US Soccer familiarity. No, I suspect they'll wait until the season's over. If we have no playoffs or no playoff success they'll probably get rid of both.

  24. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    ..... No, I suspect they'll wait until the season's over. If we have no playoffs or no playoff success they'll probably get rid of both.
    That has been the understood parameters since the end of last season and would only change if the season was heading completely south.

    As others have said, the next few home games are way more important to Vanney's continued tenure here then that game in SJ.

  25. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    If we have no playoffs or no playoff success they'll probably get rid of both.
    I know this is the plan but if this is the line of thinking and if the team is teetering that way, I'd rather they be decisive and get the best choice available while he's available and not have to scramble for a new mystery guy in the off season. Even worse would be doing what they did when they got Vanney. If they wait until September and do it, I'll lose my shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    The question is who steps in the iterim, as well, as Fraser is Vanney's guy and vice-versa. Vanney was his assistant at Chivas and RSL. They're not going to leave on behind and fire the other. So maybe Bent, unless they have someone to offer to right away. In that respects, the prospects are limited by the usual concerns of MLS/US Soccer familiarity. No, I suspect they'll wait until the season's over. If we have no playoffs or no playoff success they'll probably get rid of both.
    I think the fact that Jason Kreis is still available needs to factor in here as well though. Orlando is in pursuit and you have to think that this makes management really think about Vanney - what if we get to the end of the season, Fire Vanney and have no suitable MLS replacement a la Kreis?

  27. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    The question is who steps in the iterim, as well, as Fraser is Vanney's guy and vice-versa. Vanney was his assistant at Chivas and RSL. They're not going to leave on behind and fire the other. So maybe Bent, unless they have someone to offer to right away. In that respects, the prospects are limited by the usual concerns of MLS/US Soccer familiarity. No, I suspect they'll wait until the season's over. If we have no playoffs or no playoff success they'll probably get rid of both.
    I think Dichio could fill the role as interim, he has been with the club since day 1 and we know he doesn't want to coach at the senior level, he would be the best caretaker.

  28. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I think Dichio could fill the role as interim, he has been with the club since day 1 and we know he doesn't want to coach at the senior level, he would be the best caretaker.
    Although making Fraser the interim is a sad thought, even worse than naming Vanney after Nelsen, there is absolutely nothing to show that Dichio is up to that level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Although making Fraser the interim is a sad thought, even worse than naming Vanney after Nelsen, there is absolutely nothing to show that Dichio is up to that level.
    Well if you are sacking Vanney/Bez and you don't have the guy you want come in now you are essentially forfeiting the season, any coach is going to give you the new coach morale boost, you could put anyone in there and your going to get the same result.

    Might as well put someone like the club talisman in there who you know isn't looking to ruffle feathers.

  30. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    That has been the understood parameters since the end of last season and would only change if the season was heading completely south.

    As others have said, the next few home games are way more important to Vanney's continued tenure here then that game in SJ.
    Yeah, they're not going to judge it on a game when half our starting lineup was out injured.

 

 

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