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  1. #1441
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    I doubt they did that for that game - more like ďgive Fraser some timeĒ but if they did, it backfired rather spectacularly. It is now evident that Fraser can play well with the right team around him but isnít yet at the level where he can make up for others weaknesses - let alone anywhere near Bradley. The General made his DP case pretty effectively on Saturday.
    I think thatís one of the issues with this squad in general. Some players look good with good players on the pitch, but disappear when they arenít.

    Playing Fraser in a midfield with no defensively minded players and our weakest defenders bar Morrow, who canít really do much in this scenario, is a recipe for failure.

    Even Bradley usually plays with Delgado.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    I think thatís one of the issues with this squad in general. Some players look good with good players on the pitch, but disappear when they arenít.

    Playing Fraser in a midfield with no defensively minded players and our weakest defenders bar Morrow, who canít really do much in this scenario, is a recipe for failure.

    Even Bradley usually plays with Delgado.
    Yes. Which makes the lineup changes bizarre. And proves why we need Bradley.

    Itís not just Fraser. Chapman plays very well in a tight role inside and contributes (but there is no room there). Even Oso, who is excellent with a VV and Seba or a Poz and Jozy, canít excel with a line up like Saturdayís.

    Itís the nature of MLS and soccer I. General. Your lineup and tactics have to hide your weaknesses as well as emphasize your strengths. Vanney says he wanted freshness and pace - fair enough. But you still needed to deal with the known weakness in CB and not leave Fraser horribly exposed.

    But this is repeating ourselves. Letís hope Bradley stays. Thatís the big message from Saturday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Yes. Which makes the lineup changes bizarre. And proves why we need Bradley.

    Itís not just Fraser. Chapman plays very well in a tight role inside and contributes (but there is no room there). Even Oso, who is excellent with a VV and Seba or a Poz and Jozy, canít excel with a line up like Saturdayís.

    Itís the nature of MLS and soccer I. General. Your lineup and tactics have to hide your weaknesses as well as emphasize your strengths. Vanney says he wanted freshness and pace - fair enough. But you still needed to deal with the known weakness in CB and not leave Fraser horribly exposed.

    But this is repeating ourselves. Letís hope Bradley stays. Thatís the big message from Saturday.
    For sure.

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    I get all this Vanney out conversation. It is warranted. There have been some major major mistakes made. I am left with one thought though. If we get rid of him, who do we bring in? MLS is a tricky league. Not everyone can come in and be a successful manager. Is there a coach with proven success who is available?

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    I feel like his decision to rest so many starters came down to a few reasons:

    - third game in seven days
    - injuries and load-management
    - one or two players deserving of mins.
    - Western conference opponent

    That last one's a huge factor; it's why we never slipped out of a playoff spot, during our last winless slideómost of our results were against other Eastern sides.

    In regards to the star-players: there's an argument for at least starting Bradly, but he's a player you already have to reign in for trying to do too much, at times, with other starters around himÖ never mind in a side of people he can hardly feel like he trusts; if we were thinking he was due for a rest (seemed the consensus, going into the match against Houston), throwing him into such an understrengthed side would have been pushing it, given his style of play. Else, if the plan was always to give Jozy a half game off, he should have started, as, like Vanney himself has said, going behind in heat can be difficult to come back fromÖ however, I feel like he was hoping Jozy could sit this one out, entirely, only bringing him on if necessary (which, I suppose, is fair). Pozuelo's being injured is straight-forward, if maybe I'd have liked for them to be making a bit more noise about the fact he were hacked, and the player was hardly disciplined for it (someone else called for this, on these boards).

    At this point, I think, like Manning has already mentioned, that Vanney has earned the chance to set things right; missed out on the playoffs last year, and, whilst he probably was disappointed to have started this year with even FEWER than ideal players, I'm sure he would understand the need for him to see the door, should we miss out for the second time running. That said, I've seen a lot of insults slung his way, which have left me cringing in disgust; Vanney is not only our most successful and longest-serving coach, to date, but he's done it all picking up "coach of the year" honours, and the like. But, it's not just that: Vanney was at the helm for what will probably go down as our most fabled year, ever, and he done it through suffering the loss of his motherópoured a lot into that year, and always carries himself well, regardless, speaking highly of the fans, along the way.

    I understand the need to evaluate and be critical of his every move, for some, where, perhaps, I'd take a more "bigger picture" look at things, as I tend to feel there's little sense in getting too riled up, right after a match (lose my mind, just like some of you, in the heat of things). I just wish a few, here (and elsewhere, to be fair), could dial it down; it almost feels disrespectful to the club, when you consider the full context of the situationócertainly stings, slightly, as a fan, when I see someone insult our head-coach, generally speakingÖ not to mention Vanney, whom I'll always have time for.

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    Firing Vanney would be premature at this point. Ride out the season and see what he can do with a recently revamped roster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Bradley did not have to sit with Poz and Jozy out. And if you accept your points around Ciman (which I don’t) he still could have played Omar. You just could not rely on a 21 year old to make up for the inevitable mistakes of two mistake prone defenders. Nonsensical.
    I stick by my Ciman comments - manager isn't just going to sit a veteran guy for the rest of the season after the new guy arrives without at least giving him 1 chance to prove he can manage the defence the way this team needs. He failed horribly at it. There is no question in the locker room now that Omar starts over Ciman. It's a point that had to be made. I bet when Drew gets healthy, he'll be fighting someone for a spot - he'll get a shot to play and people on this board are going shit themselves the same way they are about Ciman getting his chance.

    Also - Fraiser wasn't hung out to dry - he was put into a realistic situation where he was backed by a former MLS defender of the year and a player with 90+ MLS games under his belt - plus playoff experience.
    The kid played well when Bradley was gone. But same as Ciman - you can't just bench the guy without giving him a chance to prove he's capable of competing for a starting spot - which he proved he isn't ready for.

    This situation plays out a lot more than people realize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Also - Fraiser wasn't hung out to dry - he was put into a realistic situation where he was backed by a former MLS defender of the year and a player with 90+ MLS games under his belt - plus playoff experience.

    The kid played well when Bradley was gone. But same as Ciman - you can't just bench the guy without giving him a chance to prove he's capable of competing for a starting spot - which he proved he isn't ready for.
    I donít actually think Fraser played that poorly, but he definitely wasnít helped by the lack of a proper defense and lack of defensive-minded players on the pitch in general.

    Zavaleta and Ciman are a poor pairing, Auro/Chapman on the right are basically invisible defensively, and none of the midfielders we played were very helpful in defense.

    Not only that, but it was a pretty slow lineup in the swamp against a team used to that sort of climate and who play counter attacking football ó while we were attempting to attack and play for possession.

    Thatís pretty much the worst possible way to evaluate Fraserís ability, and I donít think heís ready to replace Bradley or anything.

    I think thatís actually nearly the least defensively sound lineup we could have produced while still playing some actual defenders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    I don’t actually think Fraser played that poorly, but he definitely wasn’t helped by the lack of a proper defense and lack of defensive-minded players on the pitch in general.

    Zavaleta and Ciman are a poor pairing, Auro/Chapman on the right are basically invisible defensively, and none of the midfielders we played were very helpful in defense.

    Not only that, but it was a pretty slow lineup in the swamp against a team used to that sort of climate and who play counter attacking football — while we were attempting to attack and play for possession.

    That’s pretty much the worst possible way to evaluate Fraser’s ability, and I don’t think he’s ready to replace Bradley or anything.

    I think that’s actually nearly the least defensively sound lineup we could have produced while still playing some actual defenders.
    We didn't need a defensively sound lineup for that game. Houston have been completed garbage the past two games - TFC should've won with the lineup that was out there. And with them not being defensively sound, what good are they? They couldn't even score.

    It's been two seasons know where injuries have dictated our season. I don't blame Vanney for protecting his starting lineup against a shit team in miserable conditions. That lineup should've done better. Keeping 0-0 until the 75th when you introduce a couple players to turn the tide was the least these guys should've done. The players failed - not Vanney.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    We didn't need a defensively sound lineup for that game. Houston have been completed garbage the past two games - TFC should've won with the lineup that was out there. And with them not being defensively sound, what good are they? They couldn't even score.

    It's been two seasons know where injuries have dictated our season. I don't blame Vanney for protecting his starting lineup against a shit team in miserable conditions. That lineup should've done better. Keeping 0-0 until the 75th when you introduce a couple players to turn the tide was the least these guys should've done. The players failed - not Vanney.
    Although I agree that the players lost this game, not the coach, there is an aspect of all this that is on Vanney - the system of playing from the back.

    I find it hard to believe that we have spent the last 6 years with only 3 CB's who defend rather then make plays - Caldwell, Moor & now Gonzalez.

    There comes a time when the system that requires CB's to make passes has to run up against the reality that most guys who can do that & defend well are not playing in North America.

    TFC's recruitment of CB's relies too much on athleticism.

    My worry is that "make the big play when defending" approach is creeping into others. How many times did Fraser go down on Saturday to make a tackle? 6 to 7 times. How many times has Bradley done that in his TFC career? Maybe the same amount.

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    Was there anyone on this board who didnít look at the starting lineup at 6:30 on Saturday, grimace and say uh-oh? At best it was a dice roll. I donít think weíre in a position in the table to dice roll.

    Over the years Vanney has treated squad rotation as an all or nothing thing (unless there are injuries). Thatís a criticism I think.

    There is no saviour-in-waiting so it doesnít make sense to remove him but I think he has the rest of the season. This team should still be top 5 in the east at a minimum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Although I agree that the players lost this game, not the coach, there is an aspect of all this that is on Vanney - the system of playing from the back.

    I find it hard to believe that we have spent the last 6 years with only 3 CB's who defend rather then make plays - Caldwell, Moor & now Gonzalez.

    There comes a time when the system that requires CB's to make passes has to run up against the reality that most guys who can do that & defend well are not playing in North America.

    TFC's recruitment of CB's relies too much on athleticism.

    My worry is that "make the big play when defending" approach is creeping into others. How many times did Fraser go down on Saturday to make a tackle? 6 to 7 times. How many times has Bradley done that in his TFC career? Maybe the same amount.
    Yeah, I think I have specifically harped on a couple of these points for ages now.

    All the other issues surrounding that game ó rest, injuries, Houston sucking, Vanney wanting to send a message, aliens, etc. ó just detract from what actually happened on the pitch even though they may have contributed.

    Defensively the team was bad, the lineup lacked any significant defensive threat other than Morrow, and tactically there was no adaptation that made logical sense considering the conditions and the opposing team until the second half.

    When Jozy/Sberg came on it looked better because there was actually some legit attacking prowess not seen on the pitch until that point, which took some of the pressure off the defense (and more when Bradley came on).

    I donít think Vanney intentionally put Fraser in this position, but by virtue of the squad and how they played he did up leaving him out to dry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Was there anyone on this board who didnít look at the starting lineup at 6:30 on Saturday, grimace and say uh-oh? At best it was a dice roll. I donít think weíre in a position in the table to dice roll.

    Over the years Vanney has treated squad rotation as an all or nothing thing (unless there are injuries). Thatís a criticism I think.

    There is no saviour-in-waiting so it doesnít make sense to remove him but I think he has the rest of the season. This team should still be top 5 in the east at a minimum.
    Iíd be more concerned about how we play and how the team responds when adjustments are needed vs. our actual place in the standings (although iíd consider the playoffs a minimum bar).

    Agreed Re: Rotation. Needs to be more sensical.

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    I don’t think a lot of this is right. It is kind of obvious that Vanney gambled more (or more precisely, got more conservative about injuries) because he had six points in his pocket from the previous two games.

    He is scarred by what has happened over the last 18 months injury-wise (as are we all).
    ďWhat the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.Ē

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don’t think a lot of this is right. It is kind of obvious that Vanney gambled more (or more precisely, got more conservative about injuries) because he had six points in his pocket from the previous two games.

    He is scarred by what has happened over the last 18 months injury-wise (as are we all).
    Maybe. But he gambled dumb. The fact that his first comments after the match bemoaned a lack of leadership but there was no outfield player he trusted to Captain the side sums his approach up - not thought through.

    And they need to have a serious look at their training practices. Waaay too many muscular injuries.

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    I'm seeing this season play out similar to how 2016 played out after 22 games:

    2016
    9-6-7

    2019
    8-5-9

    We ended up making ground in the back half of the season when we had a full roster. I'll start to worry when we are not in a playoff spot in September. For now, I'm cautiously optimistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don’t think a lot of this is right. It is kind of obvious that Vanney gambled more (or more precisely, got more conservative about injuries) because he had six points in his pocket from the previous two games.

    He is scarred by what has happened over the last 18 months injury-wise (as are we all).
    This isn't a response to you in particular; but I've read similar thoughts from folks on here, as well as a couple of journos...

    Maybe Vanney thinks he needed to massively rotate like that to avoid injury; and due to the oppressive weather. Still didn't make any sense to do it so drastically. Instead he should constantly be rotating more subtly, but he rarely does. A couple of thoughts:
    - Vanney very often starts subbing later than the other coach. So many games (over multiple seasons) I remember thinking: TFC is dragging along; the team needs a change; the opponent is wearing us down. But so often the subs happen late; i.e. too late to affect the game. In fact there have been many games when Vanney only got his first sub in after conceding a goal.

    - There have even been plenty of games where Vanney didn't use all 3 subs despite an obvious need for fresh blood; or the last subs so late that it mostly just kills time and the players hardly touch the ball.

    - Vanney hardly ever subs out certain players, even if they play a ton of games & put in lots of miles. Case in point: Bradley. How many games have we seen Bradley slowing down towards the end of the game? Why don't we occasionally see him come off for the last 10-20 minutes? He's 31 now; in a position that requires covering lots of ground; plus international games; and contract status unclear. That's also the way to ease in & test new players in that midfield role: with training wheels. I.e. against tired opposition; with good defenders behind you, & a decent defensive midfield mindset around you. Then gradually increase their responsibilities, if they earn it. Don't drop a bomb, expect all these loose parts to perform together; and then publicly grade their performance afterwards w/o taking any responsibility as the coach.

    - I think the extreme roster turnover of Saturday was particularly bad for avoiding injury, and to deal with the extreme heat & humidity. His subs were basically forced, in an attempt to rescue the game after we were already down a couple of goals, and Houston's game plan was working to a tee. Vanney couldn't make the subs adhoc based on who was the most tired, and the most affected by the heat. For example, I felt that Osorio and Morrow really needed a break before the end of the game; probably also Fraser. But all 3 subs had already been made in desperation.


    BTW I think Vanney's subs have gotten much better than in his first year here. But sometimes his squad management still seems more stuck in theory than in reality.

    I'm also not #VanneyOut yet; just pissed. A couple of times he has responded well to pressure from above; gotten out of his ivory tower and become more pragmatic.

    What worries me the most here, is Vanney's public response after the game. We will see how this affects his squad selection & tactics going forward. But I feel like it might go in the wrong direction, and he's not learning all he could from that.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 07-22-2019 at 03:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I'm seeing this season play out similar to how 2016 played out after 22 games:

    2016
    9-6-7

    2019
    8-5-9

    We ended up making ground in the back half of the season when we had a full roster. I'll start to worry when we are not in a playoff spot in September. For now, I'm cautiously optimistic.
    I guess my frustration is more to the point.... we would be riding a three game winning streak, in a more secure playoff spot, with hopefully 4 in a row with a win this Saturday. Our House would be a fortress again and optimism for the road trips would be at a 2017 high.

    Just a stupid, stupid, very stupid loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I guess my frustration is more to the point.... we would be riding a three game winning streak, in a more secure playoff spot, with hopefully 4 in a row with a win this Saturday. Our House would be a fortress again and optimism for the road trips would be at a 2017 high.

    Just a stupid, stupid, very stupid loss.
    No doubt it was a very stupid loss, but I think there are two camps debating here:
    - is it the players fault
    or
    - the managers fault for playing those players.

    Keep in mind - that lineup may show it's ugly face again in September when the international break hits us and we lose Jozy, Bradley, Omar, Oso - and if Mavinga and Poz are out for some odd ball reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    No doubt it was a very stupid loss, but I think there are two camps debating here:
    - is it the players fault
    or
    - the managers fault for playing those players.

    Keep in mind - that lineup may show it's ugly face again in September when the international break hits us and we lose Jozy, Bradley, Omar, Oso - and if Mavinga and Poz are out for some odd ball reason.
    I think it was the players' fault and the manager's fault, latter mostly by putting players into situations that they couldn't handle well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I think it was the players' fault and the manager's fault, latter mostly by putting players into situations that they couldn't handle well.
    I have to agree with this, since good managers know the strengths and weaknesses of their players and know how to put them in the best position to succeed. Vanney didn't do that. However, if he thought he was helping them to succeed, then he doesn't know his players as well as he thought.

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    I am slowly being persuaded by the criticism, which is weird. I didn’t feel it at all in the moment, but I wasn’t there. So I put it down to people being pissed they paid for B team tickets. Also I rate Houston as a decent side, road record notwithstanding.

    But a lot of these posts are making sense to me. Auzzy's above is very good. Vanney really is not great at managing fixture congestion, doing in game subs, etc.

    I am still ride or die, until season end anyways.

    Do we expect too much? We are only 15 months removed from Guadalajara.

    What is the standard for how much grace a fan base should give a management team after they win a championship (and TFC did more than that)?
    Last edited by ensco; 07-22-2019 at 07:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I am slowly being persuaded by the criticism, which is weird. I didnít feel it at all in the moment, but I wasnít there. So I put it down to people being pissed they paid for B team tickets. Also I rate Houston as a decent side, road record notwithstanding.

    But a lot of these posts are making sense to me. Auzzy's above is very good. Vanney really is not great at managing fixture congestion, doing in game subs, etc.

    I am still ride or die, until season end anyways.

    Do we expect too much? We are only 15 months removed from Guadalajara.

    What is the standard for how much grace a fan base should give a management team after they win a championship (and TFC did more than that)?
    Vanney should be a legend here. So should Seba, VV, Jozy and Bradley. Forever. (And Cheyrou and Nick Hagglund but I am getting distracted)

    Not really Manning for me

    But we need Vanney to help us - games like Saturdays are really frustrating. One or two fewer key changes and itís a different game. So lots of rope - no Vanney out - but dude, letís get it right.

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    not to belabour but again - there was no, zero match fixing, none imho

    for me it was poor managing, period - not the players fault

    there were far too many first 11 changes to put this on the players

    i'd get the point if there were a couple of changes and they didn't perform but to throw that many in, without support of experience, is to throw them under the bus, imo

    what bothered me more were Vanney's post game comments that the energy level wasn't there, and that it showed to him that he gave players the chance/opportunity and they didn't show up

    to the point i made above this is so disingenuous and unfair, it's naive management - you need to slip new/young players into the mix surrounded by your core group for support and development - all he did was diminish confidence and growth

    my other issue is that TFC is entertainment - i had a row in front of me with young kids attending their one game of the season with their parents with no notable names on the team and i felt badly for them. i know you manage to win, which he didn't do anyway, but as this is a growing sport you really should think, especially for a home match, of the people attending

    i said this to my season ticket neighbour, that if i had seen this lineup before i got on the GO train i would have stayed at home and watch from my couch - we were both pissed, and not with drink....

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    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    not to belabour but again - there was no, zero match fixing, none imho

    for me it was poor managing, period - not the players fault

    there were far too many first 11 changes to put this on the players

    i'd get the point if there were a couple of changes and they didn't perform but to throw that many in, without support of experience, is to throw them under the bus, imo

    what bothered me more were Vanney's post game comments that the energy level wasn't there, and that it showed to him that he gave players the chance/opportunity and they didn't show up

    to the point i made above this is so disingenuous and unfair, it's naive management - you need to slip new/young players into the mix surrounded by your core group for support and development - all he did was diminish confidence and growth

    my other issue is that TFC is entertainment - i had a row in front of me with young kids attending their one game of the season with their parents with no notable names on the team and i felt badly for them. i know you manage to win, which he didn't do anyway, but as this is a growing sport you really should think, especially for a home match, of the people attending

    i said this to my season ticket neighbour, that if i had seen this lineup before i got on the GO train i would have stayed at home and watch from my couch - we were both pissed, and not with drink....
    at around 6pm tfc win probability was around 62%, 25% tie and about 15% chance of a loss
    at 630pm when lineups were announced tfc win probability went down to 50% tie 25% and a loss jumped to 25%

    tfc still had a 50% chance of winning the game even with those changes, it is a questionable decision by vanney to put the b squad out there to say the least

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    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    not to belabour but again - there was no, zero match fixing, none imho

    for me it was poor managing, period - not the players fault

    there were far too many first 11 changes to put this on the players

    i'd get the point if there were a couple of changes and they didn't perform but to throw that many in, without support of experience, is to throw them under the bus, imo

    what bothered me more were Vanney's post game comments that the energy level wasn't there, and that it showed to him that he gave players the chance/opportunity and they didn't show up

    to the point i made above this is so disingenuous and unfair, it's naive management - you need to slip new/young players into the mix surrounded by your core group for support and development - all he did was diminish confidence and growth

    my other issue is that TFC is entertainment - i had a row in front of me with young kids attending their one game of the season with their parents with no notable names on the team and i felt badly for them. i know you manage to win, which he didn't do anyway, but as this is a growing sport you really should think, especially for a home match, of the people attending

    i said this to my season ticket neighbour, that if i had seen this lineup before i got on the GO train i would have stayed at home and watch from my couch - we were both pissed, and not with drink....
    i would like to discuss your last two paragraphs.

    this was exactly how I felt, this was a disrespect to everyone who purchased a ticket

    this was why i was so incenced by the Goodson post that said we are all a bunch of entitled babies.

    were those children that came to see jozy, pozo, bradley a bunch of entitled babies?
    were the people that travelled 3 hours from London to see tfc's best on the field a bunch of entitled babies? 3 hours!! and then to see that lineup
    is it too much to want to see your team put out the best players and win? or are we entitled babies?

    It was absolutely disrespectful to all the fans to have a lineup like that on a beautiful Saturday night game.
    we don't need that kind of commentary on this board,
    Last edited by stevep; 07-22-2019 at 08:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    i would like to discuss your last two paragraphs.

    this was exactly how I felt, this was a disrespect to everyone who purchased a ticket

    this was why i was so incenced by the ensco post that said we are all a bunch of entitled babies.

    were those children that came to see jozy, pozo, bradley a bunch of entitled babies?
    were the people that travelled 3 hours from London to see tfc's best on the field a bunch of entitled babies? 3 hours!! and then to see that lineup
    is it too much to want to see your team put out the best players and win? or are we entitled babies?

    It was absolutely disrespectful to all the fans to have a lineup like that on a beautiful Saturday night game.
    we don't need that kind of commentary on this board,
    You've got something mixed up. ensco didn't say anything about entitlement. In fact, he wrote 'No way do I think that the people who are upset are “wrong”.'

    It was actually TheGoodson who was talking about entitlement, whining, & a bunch of other stuff. I didn't get around to responding to him yet. Probably not worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    You've got something mixed up. ensco didn't say anything about entitlement. In fact, he wrote 'No way do I think that the people who are upset are “wrong”.'

    It was actually TheGoodson who was talking about entitlement, whining, & a bunch of other stuff. I didn't get around to responding to him yet. Probably not worth it.
    Oops, you are right. Boy do I feel dumb now. I edited my post and removed his good name and put in TheGoodson
    Last edited by stevep; 07-22-2019 at 08:52 PM.

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    [QUOTE=stevep;1904282]at around 6pm tfc win probability was around 62%, 25% tie and about 15% chance of a loss
    at 630pm when lineups were announced tfc win probability went down to 50% tie 25% and a loss jumped to 25%

    tfc still had a 50% chance of winning the game even with those changes, it is a questionable decision by vanney to put the b squad out there to say the least. Also, why in the world would a coach drop his winning percentage this much before a game. A game where we really needed this three points.
    As of now we are not in the playoffs. It's truly baffling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    You've got something mixed up. ensco didn't say anything about entitlement. In fact, he wrote 'No way do I think that the people who are upset are “wrong”.'

    It was actually TheGoodson who was talking about entitlement, whining, & a bunch of other stuff. I didn't get around to responding to him yet. Probably not worth it.
    I actually did say something along the lines of “are people too entitled?” around 11pm. No way did I call anyone babies, and I am not engaging with this guy anymore.

    But thanks. The spirit of what you posted is correct.
    ďWhat the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.Ē

 

 

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