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  1. #1321
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    Wenger lol.

  2. #1322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Don't you remember? It was huge on this very board when Vanney was named coach, and for months afterwards. It will come up again whenever he leaves.

    The discussion right now is on whether Vanney should be fired, so people are discussing player selection and tactics.

    I'm not saying anyone is saying right now "fire him because he's American," but it formed a big part in why some people rejected his hire, and winning the MLS Cup did not bring those who think we deserve a Mourinho or a Wenger or a Pep around because they (correctly) feel that MLSE has the cash to hire someone like those big names.
    My issue with the Vanney hiring at the time was that he was given an interim tag and then promoted to full time after a shitty interim showing. Additionally the guy had no experience.

    If Vanney goes I'm sticking with this evaluation of a hiring: experience and a recent history of winning.

  3. #1323
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    My issue with the Vanney hiring at the time was that he was given an interim tag and then promoted to full time after a shitty interim showing. Additionally the guy had no experience.

    If Vanney goes I'm sticking with this evaluation of a hiring: experience and a recent history of winning.
    No he wasn't.

  4. #1324
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    My issue with the Vanney hiring at the time was that he was given an interim tag and then promoted to full time after a shitty interim showing. Additionally the guy had no experience.

    If Vanney goes I'm sticking with this evaluation of a hiring: experience and a recent history of winning.
    I think Vanney has done an excellent job as coach.

    i opposed his hiring - he was tactically naive, said "we will be on the front foot from kickoff” with a group of players who couldn't do that, and as a result trailed almost every team 1-0 in the run to end his first season. I believed then, and believe now, that we would have been in the pussplops if Nelsen had remained for the rest of the year.

    But he has proven me wrong. He has coached well, often adapted tactically, and most of all he won.

    My concerns now are a little different - differential treatment of young canadians, lack of personnel, and constant injuries. The last two are on Manning/ Curtis and the training staff, respectively. On the first, its a blind spot but he is weak on their development. I don’t get it - Others have analysed it previously .
    Last edited by MightyDM; 06-11-2019 at 06:44 PM.

  5. #1325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    No he wasn't.
    Shit I dont know why I thought this, thanks for the catch. My point still stands re: winning experience though.

  6. #1326
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Shit I dont know why I thought this, thanks for the catch. My point still stands re: winning experience though.

    Like who? Names of who you think would qualify for the TFC job if Vanney got sacked at the end of the Season.

  7. #1327
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Like who? Names of who you think would qualify for the TFC job if Vanney got sacked at the end of the Season.
    Are you implying there won’t be any coaches available at the end of this season or something?

  8. #1328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    Well, Henry was hanging around with Seba at the Raps game, so I guess that’s confirmation.

  10. #1330
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    Wow, Monaco is on its third manager this year! The guy who took over from Henry only last 20 days!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    Wow, Monaco is on its third manager this year! The guy who took over from Henry only last 20 days!!
    Monaco was a trainwreck this year. They wanted Jardim back but have just been an absolute disaster in any case.

  12. #1332
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Are you implying there won’t be any coaches available at the end of this season or something?
    If you want "any" coach, Preki would probably love to move back to MLS. I think the question was a legitimate one, you don't really want any coach.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

  13. #1333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    If you want "any" coach, Preki would probably love to move back to MLS. I think the question was a legitimate one, you don't really want any coach.
    He's already back. He's the assistant manager for the sounders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    If you want "any" coach, Preki would probably love to move back to MLS. I think the question was a legitimate one, you don't really want any coach.
    There are world-class, very good, and decent coaches available now, as there probably will be at the end of the season.

    It’s not a question of getting “any” coach. Suggesting that there are no possible replacements, however, is a bit strange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Are you implying there won’t be any coaches available at the end of this season or something?
    Yeah, I don’t see suitable coaches for this league as some kind of scarce resource. We might not immediately know the names of potential candidates but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist (they most certainly do).

    It’s just a function of knowing the market and what you’re looking for. Is anyone here really going to claim they spend their time scouring USL or other similarly unglamorous places to understand who might be a suitable MLS coach for domestic options? Or have their finger or what a reasonable non-domestic option might be?

    Literally the club can define their ideal candidate as practically anything, so it’s impossible for us to guess.

    Case and point would anyone have guessed or chose Vanney prior to Bez hiring him into the academy?
    Last edited by ag futbol; 06-12-2019 at 01:34 PM.

  16. #1336
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    There are world-class, very good, and decent coaches available now, as there probably will be at the end of the season.

    It’s not a question of getting “any” coach. Suggesting that there are no possible replacements, however, is a bit strange.
    Name one that would be willing to come to MLS. Too many fans live in an imaginary world where one of the top EPL/Spanish/Italian coaches will drop their chance to to be in the Champions League to coach Toronto. Not gonna happen. Not now, probably not ever. Even Alex Ferguson (who once wanted to immigrate to Canada - imagine that) isn't going to immigrate and come out of retirement to coach Toronto FC.

    Now if by "top coach" you mean that you may dig someone up in the Norwegian second division I'll believe you. I'm not sure that would be an upgrade.

    The foreign coaches who have come to MLS mostly have been up and coming assistants who wanted a chance to coach a first team, not "proven winners" which is what people want for any replacement.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Yeah, I don’t see suitable coaches for this league as some kind of scarce resource. We might not immediately know the names of potential candidates but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist (they most certainly do).
    I'm sure Curtis has someone ready to call should he (or more likely Manning) make that decision.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Name one that would be willing to come to MLS. Too many fans live in an imaginary world where one of the top EPL/Spanish/Italian coaches will drop their chance to to be in the Champions League to coach Toronto. Not gonna happen. Not now, probably not ever. Even Alex Ferguson (who once wanted to immigrate to Canada - imagine that) isn't going to immigrate and come out of retirement to coach Toronto FC.

    Now if by "top coach" you mean that you may dig someone up in the Norwegian second division I'll believe you. I'm not sure that would be an upgrade.

    The foreign coaches who have come to MLS mostly have been up and coming assistants who wanted a chance to coach a first team, not "proven winners" which is what people want for any replacement.
    Yeah, you’re definitely misreading something here. Where did I say a world class coach would come to Toronto FC? I just said there are plenty of managers available.

    Would they come? Probably not.

    That said, if your bag of money is big enough some are sure to. It’s the same principle that motivates players to come to MLS or go to China in the first place.

    No one would come to MLS if we paid the same as elsewhere unless there was an ulterior motive.

  19. #1339
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    Replacement managers can be found but finding one willing to


    • come to MLS
    • to Toronto
    • where they are not fully in charge
    • to a place where the star building blocks for the next 2 years are already mostly chosen
    • one who fits a style of play Curtis & Manning are willing to work with
    • willing to communicate as much as MLS/MLSE expects


    reduces the pool a lot.


    I would hope Curtis & Manning have people in mind but the pool is a lot less then people think.

  20. #1340
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    Quote Originally Posted by stegosaurus View Post
    Are you implying there won’t be any coaches available at the end of this season or something?

    This would be my answer as well

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Replacement managers can be found but finding one willing to


    • come to MLS
    • to Toronto
    • where they are not fully in charge
    • to a place where the star building blocks for the next 2 years are already mostly chosen
    • one who fits a style of play Curtis & Manning are willing to work with
    • willing to communicate as much as MLS/MLSE expects

    reduces the pool a lot.
    I would hope Curtis & Manning have people in mind but the pool is a lot less then people think.
    And if you are looking at past managers that have been successful in this league, Vanney isn't too far off from some of the other names that would be tossed around. I don't think You would be getting a superior replacement from that pool.

  21. #1341
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    Suitable coaches, sure. Better than Vanney? Not so much. Look how hard it is to replace a Goal score like Seba. Lots of strikers out there too

  22. #1342
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Replacement managers can be found but finding one willing to


    • come to MLS
    • to Toronto
    • where they are not fully in charge
    • to a place where the star building blocks for the next 2 years are already mostly chosen
    • one who fits a style of play Curtis & Manning are willing to work with
    • willing to communicate as much as MLS/MLSE expects


    reduces the pool a lot.


    I would hope Curtis & Manning have people in mind but the pool is a lot less then people think.
    This is quite slanted.

    The club has facilities and a budget most other teams in this league do not. The city is very liveable compared to a lot of other markets (but maybe Columbus is appealing, what do I know?). We have nothing to indicate Manning and Curtis are going to demand their style of play be used (it certainly hasn’t changed much for Vanney). Almost nobody operates in a vacuum without different layers of management these days.

    This is a top 10 (or more likely top 5) job for a MLS coach, easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Suitable coaches, sure. Better than Vanney? Not so much. Look how hard it is to replace a Goal score like Seba. Lots of strikers out there too
    If you want the equivalent player you’ll have to spend equivalent money. If MLSE was willing to pony up the same cash they did when Giovinco first signed I don’t think this would be much of an issue.

  23. #1343
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    This is quite slanted.

    The club has facilities and a budget most other teams in this league do not. The city is very liveable compared to a lot of other markets (but maybe Columbus is appealing, what do I know?). We have nothing to indicate Manning and Curtis are going to demand their style of play be used (it certainly hasn’t changed much for Vanney). Almost nobody operates in a vacuum without different layers of management these days.

    This is a top 10 (or more likely top 5) job for a MLS coach, easily.


    If you want the equivalent player you’ll have to spend equivalent money. If MLSE was willing to pony up the same cash they did when Giovinco first signed I don’t think this would be much of an issue.
    All I am saying is that in real life these kinds of changes are hard and unpredictable. No guarantees. So if you (TFC) want someone who doesn’t have Vanneys weaknesses, they might not have his strengths either.

  24. #1344
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    This is quite slanted.
    Not really.


    Slanted as in what occurs?


    Not everybody wants to move to North America
    Not everybody wants to come to a cold climate
    Not everybody wants to manage in a place where they don't call the player acquisition shots
    Not everybody wants to deal with a salary cap / DP league
    Not everybody wants to play in a style Manning / Curtis who call the shots would work with
    Not everybody wants to have to do (or can do) a press conference post game, interview mid game, 20 minute off record talk with TSN pundits 2 days before (not many people know about those), & 2 pressers at the training ground (I have a strong suspicion that MLSE would not accept a non-English speaking manager)

    That's just reality.

    There is a LOT of moving out of the comfort zone that comes with going to MLS from South America, Mexico or Europe.

    ******************************

    So then we look within MLS circles

    Who out there is available & as good as Vanney & willing to deal with not being top dog?

    6 months ago, most of us would have said Porter - you seen how he is doing this season?


    Who?


    Probably a good assistant somewhere. Not exactly the name brand people would want.

  25. #1345
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Not really.


    Slanted as in what occurs?


    Not everybody wants to move to North America
    Not everybody wants to come to a cold climate
    Not everybody wants to manage in a place where they don't call the player acquisition shots
    Not everybody wants to deal with a salary cap / DP league
    Not everybody wants to play in a style Manning / Curtis who call the shots would work with
    Not everybody wants to have to do (or can do) a press conference post game, interview mid game, 20 minute off record talk with TSN pundits 2 days before (not many people know about those), & 2 pressers at the training ground (I have a strong suspicion that MLSE would not accept a non-English speaking manager)

    That's just reality.

    There is a LOT of moving out of the comfort zone that comes with going to MLS from South America, Mexico or Europe.

    ******************************

    So then we look within MLS circles

    Who out there is available & as good as Vanney & willing to deal with not being top dog?

    6 months ago, most of us would have said Porter - you seen how he is doing this season?


    Who?


    Probably a good assistant somewhere. Not exactly the name brand people would want.
    By that logic no one would ever go to the Chinese Super League. But sometimes they do.

  26. #1346
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    You all know there are plenty of clubs/cities in Europe where its cold as shit in winter and you play under a sporting director/DOF?

    Also, no coach in South America has direct control over the roster.

  27. #1347
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    I still say whenever Vanney leaves his position, if Curtis is still here, then the next manager is someone from the NYRB system past or present.

  28. #1348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I still say whenever Vanney leaves his position, if Curtis is still here, then the next manager is someone from the NYRB system past or present.
    It'll be a MLS lifer

  29. #1349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    You all know there are plenty of clubs/cities in Europe where its cold as shit in winter and you play under a sporting director/DOF?

    Also, no coach in South America has direct control over the roster.
    Thank you. It's not a stretch to say it's a big world and there are potential candidates at any given time. If we move on it's not like we're looking for the next coach of Manchester United here.

    To be clear, think Vanney did a great job for a few years. However, at this point i feel like the requirements of the coach have changed and maybe the players have tuned him out a bit. New scenery could be good for both parties.

  30. #1350
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Thank you. It's not a stretch to say it's a big world and there are potential candidates at any given time. If we move on it's not like we're looking for the next coach of Manchester United here.

    To be clear, think Vanney did a great job for a few years. However, at this point i feel like the requirements of the coach have changed and maybe the players have tuned him out a bit. New scenery could be good for both parties.
    Atlanta got Tata, nyfc got Vieira. The
    league is obviously becoming now attractive to significant coaching talent. If it’s there
    when we have to hire, why Not hire it. Maybe the issue with foreign coaches wasn’t the arcane system but the lack of talent at coaching

 

 

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