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    Default New Vanney evaluation thread

    Let's start with an article by John Molinaro:http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/vanne...-start-season/
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    Vanney has won me over. He is a completely different tactical coach this year, it's like he watched all of the TFC games he had ever coached, realized what he was doing wrong, and changed it. Plus he has instilled positional discipline in Bradley and a work rate in Jozy, both of which are significant accomplishments. Finally, he has been giving minutes to people to keep them fresh ( Williams, Mo, Chapman) or for tactical reasons ( Endoh, Morgan), which is good squad management. Well done.
    Last edited by MightyDM; 04-25-2016 at 09:28 AM.

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    Well, Vanney has had 3 transfer windows to build the type of squad he wants, so now is probably a good point to start evaluating how he's done and throw out the last two years of results. I think Vanney has always had it in him to be a decent coach, but now he has the players that are at least decent at their positions. Who would have thought just 4 personnel changes would make such a big difference to the defence? Or is that due to Vanney making an adjustment from being offence-oriented last year to defence-oriented this year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    Well, Vanney has had 3 transfer windows to build the type of squad he wants, so now is probably a good point to start evaluating how he's done and throw out the last two years of results. I think Vanney has always had it in him to be a decent coach, but now he has the players that are at least decent at their positions. Who would have thought just 4 personnel changes would make such a big difference to the defence? Or is that due to Vanney making an adjustment from being offence-oriented last year to defence-oriented this year?
    Drew Moor ftw.

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    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
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    I think he's handled this road trip well, but until we see how the team plays at home I'm not ready to make a full evaluation. I will say I have always wanted him to work out (because the constant turnover clearly wasn't) and so far I'm quite hopeful.
    TFC management changes: "like adding a new fish to your aquarium of failure." - Shakes

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    The interview on Saturday seemed to indicate that the diamond / 2-3-2-1-2 that was played against Montreal is the preferred offensive oriented route for this team. Lets see how we do against teams that can clog up the middle and have fast width - i.e. Portland and Dallas.

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    TFC has 11 points from 7 consecutive away games. I think there are few clubs in MLS today that would be able to accomplish the same or better that achievement. We've won more games than we've lost on the road and tied two matches - that's over 1.5 points per game! And while I haven't been able to catch all games from start-to-finish, I am noticing an overall improvement of the team and of some of the coaching decisions.

    Vanney absolutely deserve his share of credit for how this team is shaping up. And I find it interesting what Molinaro wrote about Giovinco's role here. Despite how many goals Gio has bagged for us, nevermind attempts on net, we are not playing with with the intention of one player carrying the entire weight of the attack. We still continue to play a well-balanced game (for the most part) where everyone is expected to play their role, it just happens that we have a stellar striker who will find the back of the net when he's serviced well (IMPORTANT!) and supported. And obviously on the defensive side of things, we're basically night and day compared to last season. Very cohesive and I'm betting communication between the backline and mids are much better this season.

    Up until now I've been rather on-the-fence with Vanney, but lately I've been very pleased with how this team is coming together - and winning.
    Last edited by Cashcleaner; 04-25-2016 at 10:03 AM.
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    Vanneys test will come when Giovinco leaves for France.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronzilla View Post
    Vanneys test will come when Giovinco leaves for France.
    I really don't see Conte calling out Seba... They have a lot of strikers with similar skill sets and the fact they are playing in Europe will give them the edge.

    Also, Seba came is as a sub in the second of two friendlies, it is not like he started. I really don't see it happening

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronzilla View Post
    Vanneys test will come when Giovinco leaves for France.
    Even if he does, which I doubt, I think we will be okay. Last year we were in shoot outs and needed to be bailed out. When and if he goes to the Euros then I expect to see us playing a similar set up and style to what we've seen on the road. That type of play translates well when players are missing. Low scoring affairs and tight everywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Even if he does, which I doubt, I think we will be okay. Last year we were in shoot outs and needed to be bailed out. When and if he goes to the Euros then I expect to see us playing a similar set up and style to what we've seen on the road. That type of play translates well when players are missing. Low scoring affairs and tight everywhere.
    Playing it tight was key; I was thinking about how Vanney set up against Montreal, and it was still a first-and-foremost defensive look. Our two fullbacks pretty much stayed rooted to the backline for most of the night. There was no crossover, no attempt to push huge numbers forward. It was more like "they have specialists, we have specialists, so tonight everybody plays a role." Bradley was purely defensive, Johnson was two-way linkage and defending, Oso was one-way offensive, and the back was flat, which made it nearly impossible for Montreal to find space wide, which is where they normally start moves.

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    Wardrobe choices this season have been sub-par. I was really digging the 80's Miami Beach vibe last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Wardrobe choices this season have been sub-par. I was really digging the 80's Miami Beach vibe last year.
    Yeah, this has to be my biggest complaint. Last year was flamboyantly terrible and it was fun. This year he's gone with a lot of dull plaids - much less exciting.

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    Still not sold on him but things are looking better. I still shudder at what this team would look like without Giovinco, he's without a doubt carrying us and making Vanney look good in the process.

    Sorry to be a downer, but that's my perspective.

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    Nothing to really complain about right now, the Reds had the big victory in Montreal and have started the season out reasonable well with all these road games.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    Still not sold on him but things are looking better. I still shudder at what this team would look like without Giovinco, he's without a doubt carrying us and making Vanney look good in the process.

    Sorry to be a downer, but that's my perspective.
    Being the best defensive team in MLS has little to do with Giovinco, and a lot to do with personnel and coaching.

    Without Giovinco there would probably be more 0-0 draws.
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    I think its fair that we all agree on this:

    We ALL want Greg Vanney to be TFC head coach at the end of the 2016 campaign

    Because if he's not then its gone all to shit again.

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    Not previously a Vanney fan but in fairness he has done good so far. Football has been defensive but it has needed to be, not great to watch but it is effective. Defence looks sound. I was going to say he has done excellently but considering the squad he has, he's doing what he should be doing. I know having a great squad doesn't guarantee success, it still needs direction and that is what we have so far- we also look organised which in comparison with previous yrs is a god send really. For me getting a solid keeper was massive, Moor has been that type of player we have always lacked, but right up there is playing Bradley in a defined role. He looks so much better not charging all over the pitch, the tactical discipline showed by him and Vanney on this has to be commended.
    I'm not getting carried away too soon, as there will be tougher times ahead and it is a long season to face, but so far so good, long may it continue......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Being the best defensive team in MLS has little to do with Giovinco, and a lot to do with personnel and coaching.

    Without Giovinco there would probably be more 0-0 draws.
    Respectfully disagree. Having a player like Giovinco prevents a full commitment from the opposing offense. We're way less likely to be pinned in our own box like years before when we've got such a potent counter attack threat. That's not Vanney's set up either, it's an outstanding individual that's putting the fear in the opposition.

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    Much of the credit for our improved defensive play obviously has to go to Bez for acquiring Irwin, Moor, Johnson, and Beitashour in the off season.

    However, I give full props to Vanney for adapting his tactical approach on several occasions already this season based on the opponent and the player personnel available to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    Respectfully disagree. Having a player like Giovinco prevents a full commitment from the opposing offense. We're way less likely to be pinned in our own box like years before when we've got such a potent counter attack threat. That's not Vanney's set up either, it's an outstanding individual that's putting the fear in the opposition.
    This.

    I doubt he's here in 3 years.

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    We had giovinco last year too... The defense was far more suspect.

    Of course having a great attacking threat matters but give credit where it's due. The backline has been outstanding this year.

    Where would most teams in this league be without their best player?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    We had giovinco last year too... The defense was far more suspect.

    Of course having a great attacking threat matters but give credit where it's due. The backline has been outstanding this year.

    Where would most teams in this league be without their best player?
    Good point. Our defence is qualitatively and collectively up a notch while our midfield is finally organized. We found a way to make the most of Bradley, of getting Jozy and Gio working together offensively and defensively, and Will Johnson is like having two Bradleys on the pitch! The man is a fighter! Tim Leiweke added ambition to our team and now guys like Irwin, Moor and Will are choosing to come here because they see something they want to be a part of. Even having the US Captain on our team benefits us since Klinsmann will be watching him closely and by extension will get to see these new guys perform, bettering their chances for a callup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    Respectfully disagree. Having a player like Giovinco prevents a full commitment from the opposing offense. We're way less likely to be pinned in our own box like years before when we've got such a potent counter attack threat. That's not Vanney's set up either, it's an outstanding individual that's putting the fear in the opposition.
    That's fine... this game is a game of opinions! I like your respectful style.

    It could be argued at Altidore's hold up play has more of a direct effect on opponents' defense than Giovinco's because he stretches and distorts their shape.

    I actually believe that you build from behind, and defense is important in this league. If you look at RSL when they reached the CCL final in 2011 it was not based as much on Saborio's offensive play as it was team defending. That's what I'm seeing in the current TFC. But that's my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    Respectfully disagree. Having a player like Giovinco prevents a full commitment from the opposing offense. We're way less likely to be pinned in our own box like years before when we've got such a potent counter attack threat. That's not Vanney's set up either, it's an outstanding individual that's putting the fear in the opposition.
    Yet last year Giovinco played every game but we still had the tied-league worst defense?

    Oldtimer is correct. Giovinco has little to do with our improved defense. It's down to Bez's acquisitions in the off-season, and tactical adjustments from Vanney (making Bradley a full-time defensive mid in particular).

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The interview on Saturday seemed to indicate that the diamond / 2-3-2-1-2 that was played against Montreal is the preferred offensive oriented route for this team. Lets see how we do against teams that can clog up the middle and have fast width - i.e. Portland and Dallas.
    someone here told me we wont see the diamond ever again.

    I expect some crow eating

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    That's fine... this game is a game of opinions! I like your respectful style.

    It could be argued at Altidore's hold up play has more of a direct effect on opponents' defense than Giovinco's because he stretches and distorts their shape.

    I actually believe that you build from behind, and defense is important in this league. If you look at RSL when they reached the CCL final in 2011 it was not based as much on Saborio's offensive play as it was team defending. That's what I'm seeing in the current TFC. But that's my opinion.

    Dear God, you can't be serious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    Still not sold on him but things are looking better. I still shudder at what this team would look like without Giovinco, he's without a doubt carrying us and making Vanney look good in the process.

    Sorry to be a downer, but that's my perspective.
    Somebody buy this man a beer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronzilla View Post
    Dear God, you can't be serious.
    I'm just playing the devil's advocate. that's why I phrased it the way that I did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    Yet last year Giovinco played every game but we still had the tied-league worst defense?

    Oldtimer is correct. Giovinco has little to do with our improved defense. It's down to Bez's acquisitions in the off-season, and tactical adjustments from Vanney (making Bradley a full-time defensive mid in particular).
    Good point about Bradley.
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