Page 64 of 64 FirstFirst ... 14546061626364
Results 1,891 to 1,905 of 1905
  1. #1891
    RPB Member Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On the Interwebs
    Posts
    17,406
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    So I wanted to check with your assumption and used two websites to do some comparing.
    Salary is not an indication of quality of team. Michael and Jozy are vastly overpaid. Other teams have better players for less money.

    Our team isn't bad, it's even above average but only Pozuelo is a top player.

  2. #1892
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    378
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I didn't quote anybody - I was adding to the general conversation.
    No worries, then sorry. I was more responding to the comment, "Sign of a great manager is getting more from less, even after our High DP salaries. Our general team payroll is one of the highest in the league. Not saying anything about the perceived quality vis-a-vis payroll, just being factual when comparing the "quality" of the team we have. It was no fluke we went to the finals, we have a f-ckin' good team, f-ckin' works. To say it was all coaching, i believe is a misrepresentation.... he got more from more was actually my point.
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 11-20-2019 at 10:02 PM.

  3. #1893
    RPB Member Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On the Interwebs
    Posts
    17,406
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    Our general team payroll is one of the highest in the league.
    Payroll is irrelevant. I realize this is the metric used on Twitter for the narrative that "we only won because we spent the most" narrative but just because you were overpaying who is now really a $1.5 million quality player $6 million this last year, it doesnt follow that Michael Bradley played four times as well.

    Similarly there are better strikers than an often injured Jozy who are paid less.

    This overpaying doesn't end there. Show me a backup keeper who makes what Bono makes. How about a depth defender who makes what Zavaleta makes?

    Instead of salary, go by what most knowledgeable analysts say about our team. None of them expected TFC to go to the final, not one. If just spending guaranteed winning they would have crowned TFC from the start. Instead it was a huge surprise that TFC made the final. That is to Vanney's credit.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 11-20-2019 at 11:29 PM.

  4. #1894
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,087
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Salary is not an indication of quality of team. Michael and Jozy are vastly overpaid. Other teams have better players for less money.

    Our team isn't bad, it's even above average but only Pozuelo is a top player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Payroll is irrelevant. I realize this is the metric used on Twitter for the narrative that "we only won because we spent the most" narrative but just because you were overpaying who is now really a $1.5 million quality player $6 million this last year, it doesnt follow that Michael Bradley played four times as well.

    Similarly there are better strikers than an often injured Jozy who are paid less.

    This overpaying doesn't end there. Show me a backup keeper who makes what Bono makes. How about a depth defender who makes what Zavaleta makes?

    Instead of salary, go by what most knowledgeable analysts say about our team. None of them expected TFC to go to the final, not one. If just spending guaranteed winning they would have crowned TFC from the start. Instead it was a huge surprise that TFC made the final. That is to Vanney's credit.
    Every word in these 2 posts is 100% truth, and this will not be about Vanney, but I felt I cannot resist to post this...

    Just on Michael and Jozy alone the TFC mangement could have spent $6 million USD less this season, if players were just a bit overpaid compared to what is their contribution to the team's success. I am extremely conservative with this number!

    However, these point to a much deeper problem with TFC's management, in existence since too many years, no matter who where the club presidents, managers, etc:
    ("Other teams have better players for less money. ", "This overpaying doesn't end there.").

    I have this opinion since almost the very first years of the teams's existence:
    Comparatively with the spending on the team (all salaries + all transfer fees ever spent) TFC is one of the biggest or not clearly the biggest underachiever in the history of MLS.

    Of course not only the DP-s are overpaid, even if those are peanuts moneywise compared to DP salaries, but can hamstrung the team big time because the salary cap.

    Now I know too many forum members posted many times that DP salaries do not matter for the club, does not matter if 3 DP-s are paid a total of 8 million or 20 million per year.
    Every time when I see such a post, I'm just shaking my head in disbelief, how can people even remotely think something like that??
    TFC is a business, and part of a bigger business. How on earth for the leadership of that bigger business does not matter if TFC could spend 6, 7, 8 million less in a given season, and basically get the same results? Just because it's a "deep pockets" bigger business?

    The TFC FO will need to be a lot wiser in the coming decade than it was since 2007 to spend on players more efficiently, because IMO if not, that mother bigger bussiness will restrict a bit those funds. Of course TFC will never be one of the "cheap" MLS teams, but if nothing changes shortly can find themselves not among the 4 biggest spenders.
    That is my main fear for TFC.
    Last edited by PizzaEatingYeti; 11-21-2019 at 06:39 AM.

  5. #1895
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    378
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Instead of salary, go by what most knowledgeable analysts say about our team. None of them expected TFC to go to the final, not one. If just spending guaranteed winning they would have crowned TFC from the start. Instead it was a huge surprise that TFC made the final. That is to Vanney's credit.

    Lots of people did and bought hotels in Seattle/LA after the DC game. Vanney asked for wingers, he got them. He asked for a defender he got a high quality one. He asked for a back up striker he got one. 5 more points and the Seattle game would have been at home, so they weren’t overwhelming favorites.

    How many games did we blow leads in the final 10 because we couldn’t lock it down like a Seattle. The Houston game was a joke. To his credit he did some great work in the playoffs but many would say the start to Atlanta tactics were horrible. If Q doesn’t make that save... now he did adjust and kudos, the players like him and he has experience and knowledgeable which is great.

    He also successfully coached the greatest MLS team of all time... but occasionally his sh-t can stink and he needs to continue to grow as the league gets better. We need to win those 1-0 games and we need to be ruthless in breaking others down.

    How many games have we dominated and not unlocked the final 1/3... don’t blame it on lack of quality alone. Vanney hasn’t figured that out yet. I truly hope he does.

    Vanney’s legacy will be galvanized if we win one more, time will tell. And I do say give him that chance.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 11-21-2019 at 03:46 PM. Reason: fix quote bracket

  6. #1896
    RPB Member Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On the Interwebs
    Posts
    17,406
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ^ I don't really believe your last comment. If TFC had, say, against all odds won a second MLS Cup, you would still be one of the three people on this board who would want Vanney out. You'd credit some other reason for the win, not him.

    BTW, every manager in the world gets their starting tactics wrong sometimes, including some of the biggest names out there. The difference for a really good manager is that they can adjust tactics mid-game. There are only 4-5 coaches in MLS who can do that. Vanney is one of them. The majority of MLS coaches play only one style and formation. You don't seem to appreciate how unusual our team's ability to change on the fly (a result of coaching) is.

    The problem with being unable to win the cup final game was lack of firepower up front which is a roster construction issue, zero to do with coaching. Say we had, say, Zlatan. We get the first goal within 45 minutes, Seattle's on the back heel and we win easily.

    I would gladly exchange our entire roster for LAFC's or even Atlanta's, or Seattle's. Seattle is a masterpiece of a balanced well-constructed pieces that didn't take exceptional coaching to win (their own coach said that Vanney was better tactically). Lagerway has managed to construct very good teams without breaking the bank, first at RSL and now at Seattle. He is easily one of the best GMs in the league.

    So here's a question for you. If Vanney is "so bad" that you still want him out, name me one current MLS coach that you would choose to replace him with and why.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 11-21-2019 at 09:43 AM.

  7. #1897
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    809
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    ^ I don't really believe your last comment. If TFC had, say, against all odds won a second MLS Cup, you would still be one of the three people on this board who would want Vanney out. You'd credit some other reason for the win, not him.

    BTW, every manager in the world gets their starting tactics wrong sometimes, including some of the biggest names out there. The difference for a really good manager is that they can adjust tactics mid-game. There are only 4-5 coaches in MLS who can do that. Vanney is one of them. The majority of MLS coaches play only one style and formation. You don't seem to appreciate how unusual our team's ability to change on the fly (a result of coaching) is.

    The problem with being unable to win the cup final game was lack of firepower up front which is a roster construction issue, zero to do with coaching.

    I would gladly exchange our entire roster for LAFC's or even Atlanta's, or Seattle's. Seattle is a masterpiece of a balanced well-constructed pieces that didn't take exceptional coaching to win (their own coach said that Vanney was better tactically). Lagerway has managed to construct very good teams without breaking the bank, first at RSL and now at Seattle. He is easily one of the best GMs in the league.

    So here's a question for you. If Vanney is "so bad" that you still want him out, name me one current MLS coach that you would choose to replace him with and why.
    I dont think vanney is bad, hes a good coach but to act like tfc has a bad roster is just silly. When tfc adds another dp and resigns bradley on tam that roster will be as good as any im mls depending on who the addition is. Post gold cup when tfc added gallardo benezet mullens omar they were one of the best teams in the league.

  8. #1898
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    378
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikmacdo View Post
    Post gold cup when tfc added gallardo benezet mullens omar they were one of the best teams in the league.
    Ditto.... I am not one of the 3 btw... but solid constructive criticism and not walking with blinders on is always a good thing.

    COYRs

  9. #1899
    RPB Member Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On the Interwebs
    Posts
    17,406
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikmacdo View Post
    I dont think vanney is bad, hes a good coach but to act like tfc has a bad roster is just silly. When tfc adds another dp and resigns bradley on tam that roster will be as good as any im mls depending on who the addition is. Post gold cup when tfc added gallardo benezet mullens omar they were one of the best teams in the league.
    We don't have a bad roster, it's above average, it's not top 2-3 though.

    When we finally add a Giovinco replacement, we'll have as good an offense as any. Our defense is still suspect until it is upgraded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    Ditto.... I am not one of the 3 btw... but solid constructive criticism and not walking with blinders on is always a good thing.

    COYRs
    It's not blinders to give credit to a coach for the proportion that he's responsible for our suceess.

    BTW, I'm still waiting for you to give me the name of which current MLS coach you would appoint instead of Vanney.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 11-21-2019 at 11:16 AM.


  10. #1900
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    378
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    We don't have a bad roster, it's above average, it's not top 2-3 though.

    BTW, I'm still waiting for you to give me the name of which current MLS coach you would appoint instead of Vanney.
    You keep saying I want him replaced, I have said he has earned the job. I just think there are defined areas to improve.... I am also travelling so if I am slow to respond.

    But if I am pressed -

    Bradley - I have always liked his competitiveness and style

    Martino - I know gone but here recently and ran an exciting type of football for Atlanta and would fit well with Toronto

    Schmetzer - done amazing things with the team, builds one common and complete vision

    I think any one of those could put their mark on this squad, especially if as you say we add even more quality with another DP


    Would all be very good coaches.

  11. #1901
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    4,577
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    You keep saying I want him replaced, I have said he has earned the job. I just think there are defined areas to improve.... I am also travelling so if I am slow to respond.

    But if I am pressed -

    Bradley - I have always liked his competitiveness and style

    Martino - I know gone but here recently and ran an exciting type of football for Atlanta and would fit well with Toronto

    Schmetzer - done amazing things with the team, builds one common and complete vision

    I think any one of those could put their mark on this squad, especially if as you say we add even more quality with another DP


    Would all be very good coaches.
    All the guys you listed were either given rosters better than ours (Atlanta & LAFC) or more balanced (Seattle). Discrediting Vanney because our squad is good should work the same for these guys. The fact that DeBoer still managed to be second with Atlanta is a testament to that because he is a boob.

  12. #1902
    RPB Member Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On the Interwebs
    Posts
    17,406
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    All the guys you listed were either given rosters better than ours (Atlanta & LAFC) or more balanced (Seattle). Discrediting Vanney because our squad is good should work the same for these guys. The fact that DeBoer still managed to be second with Atlanta is a testament to that because he is a boob.
    You said it. Give DeBoer TFC circa 2012 and I bet he would go 0-9. See how Atlanta does in the future with DeBoer constructing the squad.

    I like Bradley Sr., but if anyone wants to nit pick a coach, how about taking a squad as stacked as he has and have his team choke against Seattle? That's far more significant than any of the annoying weird losing experiments that Vanney has done on occasion during the regular season.

    Schmetzer himself said that Vanney is a better tactician, so no point doing that swap.

    Martino? I think he had a big part in building Atlanta so he deserves credit for that. However, he was just stopping over in MLS for a season or two before going on to greener pastures. He's not realistically available.

    So there's little point critiquing Vanney against some hypothetical perfect standard when not holding the alternatives to the same standard. I'm all for discussing his flaws, which are real, but he's really our best realistic option going forward, and has earned the right to take this team ahead. Hopefully Curtis delivers this off-season and we set a new MLS record going to a Cup final 4 out of 5 years.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 11-21-2019 at 04:15 PM.


  13. #1903
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    378
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    All the guys you listed were either given rosters better than ours (Atlanta & LAFC) or more balanced (Seattle). Discrediting Vanney because our squad is good should work the same for these guys. The fact that DeBoer still managed to be second with Atlanta is a testament to that because he is a boob.
    You can't have your cake and eat to... you asked for options. I gave them. Again this is not including any of our overpaid DPs as everyone points out.

    Atlanta without DPs. $6,575,528
    Seattle without DPs. $6,734,966
    Toronto without DPs. $6,093,865
    Philadelphia without DPs $5,578,936
    LAFC without DPs. $4,571,512
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 11-21-2019 at 04:23 PM.

  14. #1904
    RPB Member Moderator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On the Interwebs
    Posts
    17,406
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    You can't have your cake and eat to... you asked for options. I gave them. Again this is not including any of our overpaid DPs.

    Atlanta without DPs. $6,575,528
    Seattle without DPs. $6,734,966
    Toronto without DPs. $6,093,865
    Philadelphia without DPs $5,578,936
    LAFC without DPs. $4,571,512
    So since you insist on using dollars to evaluate players, that must mean that Zavaleta at $296k is one of the best non-DP defenders in the league. I'm so glad we have him!

    Also, Westberg is only 1/3 as good as Bono because he only gets 1/3 as much.

    Ashtone Morgan is 50% better than Endoh, and so on...

    So if TFC spends more than LAFC obviously our roster is better. It couldn't be that LAFC have found any bargains from South America. That never happens. It's only the total spend that counts.

    (Kudos on doing those calculations, though, I wouldn't have the patience).
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 11-21-2019 at 04:29 PM.


  15. #1905
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    4,577
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    You can't have your cake and eat to... you asked for options. I gave them. Again this is not including any of our overpaid DPs as everyone points out.

    Atlanta without DPs. $6,575,528
    Seattle without DPs. $6,734,966
    Toronto without DPs. $6,093,865
    Philadelphia without DPs $5,578,936
    LAFC without DPs. $4,571,512
    You seriously going to use money as a basis? Especially with our few overpaid guys due to continuity?

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •