New Vanney evaluation thread

[OgtheDim]

Before we get ahead of ourselves here...all MLS teams go on 3-4 win runs. The difference between the also rans and the playoff teams is how many wins and ties come between the inevitable losses. The NER game will be tough. Then there are three road games including Philly who are tooling up for a playoff run and Orlando who are rejigging their current assets under an experienced coach. It is VERY possible that TFC gets 0 points in the next 4 games. IF that or something close to that happens, this thread will be full once again. That's the nature of this discussion - when we win, he's good enough. When we lose, he's awful.

[Detroit_TFC]

Funny, three weeks ago I was looking forward to this road trip figuring Orlando was a mess and Philly was a toss up. Now, not so much. Life comes at you fast.

[Ivy]

Funny, three weeks ago I was looking forward to this road trip figuring Orlando was a mess and Philly was a toss up. Now, not so much. Life comes at you fast.

Sorry but Philly is crap who's luck ran out. They have nothing or nobody special on their roster.
TFC will get at LEAST 6 points out of the next 4 games. Book it.

[OgtheDim]

Bedoya in, Edu back and we are told going back to his DMC spot, Davies in. Yes they will be bedding them in and they havn't addressed their biggest need (CD) but Philly is a good MLS team.

Are we better? Yes. But I'm suggesting that game will be tough and our expectations for points and thus for Vanney should be tempered.

[Ultra & Proud]

Sorry but Philly is crap who's luck ran out. They have nothing or nobody special on their roster.
TFC will get at LEAST 6 points out of the next 4 games. Book it.

They got Bedoya now but we'll be getting them before he has a chance to adjust and be 100% match fit.

[Yohan]

Philly has some really good players. I rate Barnetta, Ilsinho, Blake and Rosenberry highly.

[Ivy]

They are no more special than Cbus. They too have special players.

[Canary10]

Philly has some really good players. I rate Barnetta, Ilsinho, Blake and Rosenberry highly.

I'm a big fan of Fabian Herbers. Alberg has been pretty decent.

[Detroit_TFC]

They got Bedoya now but we'll be getting them before he has a chance to adjust and be 100% match fit.

Yes, agreed. And we'll be able to compare, because we play them again Sept. 24.

[Phil]

Every game has the potential to be lost, parody is the hallmark of the MLS. It has been good to actually get some big results off of lower placed teams, and getting the full points out of RSL was great. If we didn't get the v-cup against Vancouver Vanney would IMO be on much thinner ice with Manning. I know for a fact Manning was very critical of all things Vanney in early June. The team has turned some things around, lets hope the progress continues.

[Kaz]

Every game has the potential to be lost, parody is the hallmark of the MLS. It has been good to actually get some big results off of lower placed teams, and getting the full points out of RSL was great. If we didn't get the v-cup against Vancouver Vanney would IMO be on much thinner ice with Manning. I know for a fact Manning was very critical of all things Vanney in early June. The team has turned some things around, lets hope the progress continues.

There had to be some major changes. If Manning is responsible for us starting to play as a team and drop the give it to Gio and bunker down into Vanney ball if we are up by a single goal for the whole game.. my opinion of Manning has gone way up. That seems to be the change. We are attacking more we are pushing harder. These are good things. I still see Vanney ball but no where near as often.


Though last night no one seemed to be connecting really well.

[Canary10]

Every game has the potential to be lost, parody is the hallmark of the MLS. It has been good to actually get some big results off of lower placed teams, and getting the full points out of RSL was great. If we didn't get the v-cup against Vancouver Vanney would IMO be on much thinner ice with Manning. I know for a fact Manning was very critical of all things Vanney in early June. The team has turned some things around, lets hope the progress continues.

This made be laugh. You meant parity, but somehow parody may fit better. At least with the refereeing.

[Phil]

Freudian slip

But yeah, Manning had some serous issues with tactics and how we are not playing 'our' game especially at home. To Vanneys credit he listened and adjusted. Its seems to be going well. Lets keep the finger crossed.

[Areathrasher]

Didn't think Manning would get involved on the football side like that. Thought he was mostly a business dude.

Interesting stuff.

[Phil]

Didn't think Manning would get involved on the football side like that. Thought he was mostly a business dude.

Interesting stuff.

The CEO is the business guy. Manning is surprisingly involved in a lot of team stuff. It does appear that its still the 'collective' attitude though.

[OgtheDim]

I'm curious as to what the collective defines as "our game".

I'm still not used to the whole "focusing on how we play the game" stuff around here.

[Areathrasher]

The CEO is the business guy. Manning is surprisingly involved in a lot of team stuff. It does appear that its still the 'collective' attitude though.

His resume from RSL suggested he was a business guy. I mean, he's won the exec of the year award twice for boosting season ticket and sponsorship sales.

[Phil]

His resume from RSL suggested he was a business guy. I mean, he's won the exec of the year award twice for boosting season ticket and sponsorship sales.

Fair point, I guess I did find it a bit surprising too now that I think about it.

[Areathrasher]

Fair point, I guess I did find it a bit surprising too now that I think about it.

Maybe he had more of an influence on the playing side at RSL than what we were all led to believe?

[Kaz]

Maybe he had more of an influence on the playing side at RSL than what we were all led to believe?

Or he realized that Vanney isn't capable of making sound strategies on his own and is forcing him down the path a little. Vanney seems to be the kind of guy that would be a great assistant and youth coach.. but He was told in the off season not to let in too many goals and rather than creating a sound strategy with an offensively capable team he create Vanney Ball the give Gio the Ball and no one else and once we get a gaol park the bus and dare teams to take points strategy that I have been complaining about for most of the season. We finally started seeing at the end of July the team playing together and building up play forcing defenders to looks at the rest of the team. Suddenly Gio Breaks his Goalless streak.

Since than we have seen most games result in multiple TFC goals. instead of the more common 1 per game. Prior to July 23rd we only scored more than 1 goal in just 5 out of 19 games only two of those were wins. Our first 3 game streak of the year came from the team pushing for goals for most of the match. Our defensive shape is good. our offensive pieces are there, we have the ability to play. Last season we scored more than 2 goals in 10 games out of the first 19.

If we are finally going to be an offensive side again and actually chase multiple goals a game and play as a unit where everyone not just Giovinco and defenders are considered potential goal scorers I think we could do very well for the rest of the season.

Vanney has the ability to coach.. the shape we have seen lately shows that.. no matter what our attacking shape is we should defend as a team that is a normal thing to do, however I don't think he has the ability to create winning strategies on his own. He needs to be pushed by outside forces to be successful. If Manning is able to do that and it works.. great.

There was certainly a change. Sadly It is still Vanney on game day.. RSL shows the issue there where he basically tried playing the same exact game as he did against Columbus. RSL has some poor defensive shape at times.. yet we regularly went out to the wings when on the attack giving RSL the extra few seconds to compose themselves. There was a communication issue too, we had to attacking players (I think it was Osorio and Hamilton) run into each other in what could have been a strong goal scoring chance. It literally looked like part of a montage of a bad team in a comedy movie. I expected to see a replay with Benny Hill music. these kinds of errors shouldn't happen. The players should know their roles well enough that one of them calls it and the other preps for a rebound run.

I still see things regularly that suggest bad coaching or bad mentality. Hamilton likely shouldn't have started the second half. Either he isn't in it mentally or the rest of the team thinks he isn't because people did not want to let him touch the ball.

[T-boy]

I sometimes get the impression that if we won a game 29-0 somebody on here would complain that "Vanney should have won by thirty".

And realistically, even the best teams in the world are reliant on "one great player". Are Barca the same without Messi? Were Sweden ever good without Ibra? Would Portugal have won without Ronaldo through the tournament?

TFC just had 2 clean sheets in a row. Seba does almost nothing defensively at all and clean sheets don't happen 'by accident'.

[Oldtimer]

I actually think that Vanney has the ability to be a good coach, certainly the development of the young players show this, as Molinaro has pointed out. He's still learning though. As long as he's teachable, that's OK. It takes years to become an Arena or a Kreis.

[TFC/Everton]

Fair point, I guess I did find it a bit surprising too now that I think about it.

To be fair to Manning, the only person from that RSL management team that has had ANY success post-RSL is Manning. Kries was a complete flop at NYCFC and look at what Lagerway has done to the Sounders.

Perhaps we got the brains of the operation?

[Yohan]

I actually think that Vanney has the ability to be a good coach, certainly the development of the young players show this, as Molinaro has pointed out. He's still learning though. As long as he's teachable, that's OK. It takes years to become an Arena or a Kreis.

We're in MLS 3.0. There are really no experienced coach that I'd want for MLS 3.0 era except Bruce Arena.

Even Sigi looks like he's out of ideas and stuck on MLS 2.0 era

So, most teams looking at former players from MLS 1.0 and 2.0 era and 'growing' them into MLS 3.0 managers.

Taking that into account, Vanney has just as good background and coaching badges as any to 'grow' into MLS 3.0 manager. With tons of questions about his managing ability of course.

[Yohan]

To be fair to Manning, the only person from that RSL management team that has had ANY success post-RSL is Manning. Kries was a complete flop at NYCFC and look at what Lagerway has done to the Sounders.

Perhaps we got the brains of the operation?

In the end Kreis takes the responsibility for success and failures, but he really got the shaft from NYCFC. Never really had a free hand in how he wants the team to play and roster decisions.

Lagerwey also had a bit of learning curve working with a bigger club in Seattle from RSL. He also deferred a lot to Sigi in terms of player decision.

[OgtheDim]

Sigi had a direct pipeline to team ownership - takes a lot of bad results to get that closed. I'm not sold on how Lagerway handled the transition - a lot of I in his following statements.

[Kaz]

I actually think that Vanney has the ability to be a good coach, certainly the development of the young players show this, as Molinaro has pointed out. He's still learning though. As long as he's teachable, that's OK. It takes years to become an Arena or a Kreis.

honestly as long as we are meeting our potential that is great. If Manning can keep him in line, if that is the missing piece that is great. Three wins isn't enough to get me to the point I'm pleased.. but if this becomes more the norm where we are actually in the game for 90 minutes searching for that extra goal this is good.

A one goal lead should never be good enough. Not only does it help solidify the attacking players and build confidence, but it takes pressure off if you do it with patience. You are holding possession, you are attacking, you are forcing them to change their shape, changes the substitution plan. It also keeps everyone hungry. The lack of offensive fire I really think cost us points.

Yes we had injuries but You have to give Vanney credit for the Youngsters play, though you also have to criticize the metal shape they were in on Wednesday, both those things are the coaches job to deal with. I think if he has a boss forcing him to play more aggressively than we might have a shot. At the same time Vanney needs to have enough of a backbone to be able to make his case. It has been suggested Manning gave Vanney a goals against number during the road trip we weren't to cross. Which may have caused the off season changes and team strategy we saw. The issue with that is if Vanney isn't capable of making his case and is letting Manning dictate things to him.. That is worrying too..


Which is my issue with Vanney no matter what he seems to do there is always a significant downside.

With luck.. though there is now a balance and we can actually play some football.. particularly if the kids keep some confidence when Bradley, and Johnson come back.

[Fort York Redcoat]

honestly as long as we are meeting our potential that is great. If Manning can keep him in line, if that is the missing piece that is great. Three wins isn't enough to get me to the point I'm pleased.. but if this becomes more the norm where we are actually in the game for 90 minutes searching for that extra goal this is good.

A one goal lead should never be good enough. Not only does it help solidify the attacking players and build confidence, but it takes pressure off if you do it with patience. You are holding possession, you are attacking, you are forcing them to change their shape, changes the substitution plan. It also keeps everyone hungry. The lack of offensive fire I really think cost us points.

Yes we had injuries but You have to give Vanney credit for the Youngsters play, though you also have to criticize the metal shape they were in on Wednesday, both those things are the coaches job to deal with. I think if he has a boss forcing him to play more aggressively than we might have a shot. At the same time Vanney needs to have enough of a backbone to be able to make his case. It has been suggested Manning gave Vanney a goals against number during the road trip we weren't to cross. Which may have caused the off season changes and team strategy we saw. The issue with that is if Vanney isn't capable of making his case and is letting Manning dictate things to him.. That is worrying too..


Which is my issue with Vanney no matter what he seems to do there is always a significant downside.

With luck.. though there is now a balance and we can actually play some football.. particularly if the kids keep some confidence when Bradley, and Johnson come back.

Not to nitpick (and I'm enjoying your rationale btw) but many would consider the perfect team to maintain a one goal lead and possession of the ball. We are obviously not that confident yet but it's seldom seen anywhere.

[Ultra & Proud]

We're in MLS 3.0. There are really no experienced coach that I'd want for MLS 3.0 era except Bruce Arena.

I refuse to accept what he's done recently in the bizarro "cap" world the Galaxy reside in as proof he is ready for MLS 3.0.

If you can fill a squad with what looks like 7 or 8 DP or very near DP quality players then I expect that team to be able to compete in any era of MLS. No assurances he can do it with a regular MLS squad that adheres to cap rules.

[OgtheDim]

I liked Arena - until this season. His recent rant about analytics points to a guy not interested in how the game is going. Not saying analytics are the be all and end all but ignoring information completely is foolish. I think he checks out after 2018.