Not sure he enjoyed the beer cans at the Dome.Originally Posted by Ivy
Not sure he enjoyed the beer cans at the Dome.
That wasn't cool...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...42995635806304
As we said its a slippery slope. Bannings in a leauge that isn't even MLS. Its an attack on support, this should be fought back from all supporters period.
I agree with Busa. This is absolutely a point proving incident that has nothing to do with MLS. Whitworth is the grinch to organized support. He will do anything and everything to discourage people from assembling and planning together.
Hearing through grape vines that these punishments are being handed down to leaders of groups, because they can't find the real culprits.
Itll be interesting to see what the reaction would be if Phil or Fizik got banned for a year because a person in a red patch scarf set off a flare.
I'd like to see the rationale and know what rules are expected at Orlando's B team before I make a comment beyond, "You know it is possible that pyro should not be always allowed where ever somebody can let off a flare." There's a lot of noise when ever a ban occurs.
Mind PM'ing me what you heard? I like to stay in the loop on these things for obvious reasons
What? You mean you parrot "Blanket Protest Across all Leagues" as soon as you hear the word BAN?
This could be about clarification of rules if so many people didn't thrive in the lack of transparency and accountability.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
That line is genius cause it can be applied it to every single discussion about soccer structures in North America. Soccer here is sooooooooo cowboy wild west, from the top down. Such a young sport.
Are you saying these SGs were first to the ball? And were the studs showing?
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
you really think swearing in a section like 112 would just be reported and the issue would be solved? I could see if a person was swearing directly to an individual, more like a "threatening manner" I could see security taking the issue serious, but if a person was to complain to security that people were swearing do you really think security could actually deal with the problem? you do realize we sometimes chant (sometimes thousands of people chant in the south end) that include swear words in the chant (Example vs Montreal Tic Tac Taber nac who the ...well you should know the rest) This is a soccer game with a more European atmosphere "flare"() to it that is more rude then your average Blue Jay, Raptors, Leafs or Argos game. Swearing is more part of the atmosphere, at least in the supporters section.
Last edited by james; 04-09-2016 at 12:10 AM.
Overall MLS is all over the place with there rules, some teams are aloud to have smoke and flares in some form including us at TFC. Some pretend to be against it, but turn a blind eye to it. While others are against it strongly and have strict rules against it that are enforced, while it seems MLS overall says the league are against smoke and flares, but then they advertise it like its part of the daily atmosphere and advertise it to attract people to buy tickets and support the team.
I think a lot of fans like smoke and/or flares, and advertising it and seeing it on TV is good for viewership and the "atmosphere" look for clubs. However allow it to only certain designated supporter members who are chosen by the club, do not have random people bringing such items, and have it organized. Then if you don't want anyone else with smoke or flares outside of the specific designated locations then make it aware. Announce that any grounds of there's outside of the few designated supporter fan section that is on the stadium property can be punished by the club....and any grounds outside of the stadium property maybe dealt with by city police exc. Follow this across the league, then at least people know where we all stand.
Last edited by james; 04-09-2016 at 12:26 AM.
The only difference I see with this from what's in place here now is where the smoke is set off. We already have members that have to be wearing a wristband and go through a safety process at the start of the year to handle smoke.
This really is about agreeing to do it league wide and proving its safe before we expand what we can do with it.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Moderator
I'll be honest, I find an awful lot of time and effort is spent on these discussions about rules and regulations, league or club policies, and whatnot. That's fine and all, and I'm not knocking people for bringing it up at all, but I think we have to sorta stand back at times and look at our current situation at BMO Field and what we can or cannot do. What is happening elsewhere in the league is obviously worth paying attention to because it could effect us in the future, but I'd like to ask the question about the us the supporters of TFC specifically, and that is:
Are we happy with the current set-up at BMO Field regarding smoke and even confetti or tifos?
Because while I won't speak for anyone else, I think we have things pretty damned good as it is. I'm very cool with how smoke is handled especially. To me it's a completely logical compromise to have the groups in control but still a margin of oversight by the club. The same can be said for other elements of support like banners or flags, though admittedly, similar policies will be found across the league. I'm just thinking really of how the RPB execs at the time were able to negotiate and work out the plan for smoke and how we were able to walk away from the table with a system that benefited everyone - supporters and club.
And even going back quite a few years now how we petitioned the club to make certain exemptions for the rules specifically for the south end. I'm writing this on my phone so I don't know who mentioned it, but someone posted about whether or not swearing in 112 would ever be reported, but luckily enough that's a question that will likely never arise because we came to an agreement with the club that exempts punishment in the south end for any of that. In fact, any visitor to the Supporters Section can see for themselves on any of the printed signs that standing, swearing, and general harmless shenanigans ARE allowed in that entire side of the stadium.
The point to all this is that while we can talk about what-ifs and how things are going with other clubs, I at least feel TFC is managing to get things more right than wrong when it comes to what is allowed in the Supporters Section at BMO Field. In fact, now that I think of it, I'm not even sure what could be done, reasonably, to make things better.
So again, the question to everyone here remains. Are we happy or unhappy with how things currently stand or do we want or demand any significant changes?
Last edited by Cashcleaner; 04-09-2016 at 07:47 AM.
There is so much wrong with your post, Cashcleaner.
Moderator
^ By all means, please elaborate, Ivy. I think there's so much wrong with your views, but I'll usually take the effort to explain why.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Not view wise, I mean factually.
1. The smoke we have now is only deployed by the group, everything else around it is dictated by the club (what, when, how, why, and who). Don't get me wrong, I appreciate it for what it is, though.
2. You have a misconception about RPBs involvement in obtaining the smoke
3.The signs in the south end do not permit swearing. They read: "SECTION 112 IS A DESIGNATED SUPPORTER SECTION. Fans in this section will be permitted to stand persistently throughout matches, as well as use pre-approved flags, banners, and drums." The word smoke maaaayyyyy have been added, I'm not sure, but I doubt it.
4. This thread is about DC's, and MLS's recent bannings and sanctions, not about fan experience at BMO field.
But to answer your question about can it get better, I think there is no definitive answer. Every person has their own idea of support and how it should be done. Remember that some people here are against flags, and some don't like the drumming (too much salsa).
League wide consistency should be an agreed upon improvement. It would make this part of the discussion, on what's allowed at least, to be redundant.
Changing what is allowed would be so much clearer.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
In regards to smoke - isn't there already a consistent rule across the league: Controlled/club-sanctioned smoke is allowed - individuals using smoke is not?
If a club doesn't want to deal with the hazard, insurance costs (there must be something - I assume) and general hassle, well, that's their purgative.
When MLS advertisements include smoke I see it as an "only at participating locations" situation. As long as they're not using images of smoke being used somewhere where it shouldn't be, what's the problem?
Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.
MLS advertisements show pre game marches a lot. And those are smoke hot zones. Every single city does them.
Fair enough (I knew my comment didn't really apply to this thread before I posted).
Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.
And in some cases MLS employees are the ones using the smoke. Just shows a huge double standard.
Good to see DC Ultras not show up in solidarity today. No matter what people say if its right or wrong wrong them to do so there in it as a group.
Glad to see other groups from around the league supporting them too.
so Ivy where are your tickets at bmo field
Were those MLS employees in DC? Are there different rules from ground to ground and state to province? If so THAT should be the first concern of MLS transparency and clarification.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Im speaking of the Rachel in Orlando photo thats making the rounds. Her opening using a smoke bomb in her hands during a march outside the stadium.
Its amazing the rules only apply when its not for the betterment of there social media and marketing agenda.
Im with Ivy it's also nice that other groups have shown there support and solidarity openly about being with DC after this stupidity. Everyone should be this is an attack on all support.
So the answer is no.
Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.
Not a fan of the length of the penalty but, again, setting off smoke in an enclosed public walkway space is what happened here.
Its a hot mess all around.
112. Why?
Moderator
1) Great! We're all cool with how smoke is handled. That was something many people wanted and as I mentioned above, things were worked out and we ended up getting it.
2) Did you ever think you might have a misconception about the group's involvement in obtaining the smoke? The mod/exec forum has a multitude of threads going back several years now over the subject of smoke at BMO Field and I know first-hand how in-depth working it all out was, because I was the guy constantly badgering the execs at the time for an update on how talks were going. You want to know something else that most people here or outside of the group have no idea about? The idea of smoke given to the groups and supplied by TFC came up first between myself and a few others after one of our very first RPB meetings in 2006/2007 with a number of TFC ticket and marketing reps who were eliciting those sorts of ideas to create an atmosphere at BMO Field. I'm certainly not going to say that's when and how the subject originated, but I will say it's a topic that has been kicked about before the majority of individuals believe.
3) Fair enough. But do you think security would ever enforce a no-swearing policy in the south end? I don't, because after all these seasons, I've yet to see or hear of it happening myself. I can't speak for any other section, but I just cannot imagine the stewards in 112 taking somebody out because another complained about their language.
4) Yes, but as I mentioned in my post, we often look at what's going on elsewhere and applying hypothetical situations to BMO Field and discuss their possible results. That's not a bad thing, but I think at times we get a bit carried away and can sometimes jump to conclusions (ie: these guys in DC get banned for X, so you just wait until it happens here!). Fuck, we're a soccer forum but at times it can be the most fucking depressing place to be.
You're absolutely right, though. There is no definitive answer, at least not if you ask a wider audience. Some are very happy with how things are. Some want more or less, and frankly, some will never be happy. Myself, I look at certain complaints and shake my head, Actually, strike that - I look at the positions some people take (like, ABSOLUTELY NO FLAG-WAVING AT ANYTIME EVER!!! VERSUS, FLAGS ALWAYS AND FOREVER!!!) and shake my head. Because what the heck happened to reason and taking the middle ground? I personally love flags and want to see them up as much as makes sense. But if a person behind me says he can't see what's going on during an important segment of the match (let's say during a PK), I'm not gonna get my back up - I'm gonna put my flag down. But once that's all over, it's going back up.
As for drums, I fucking love them. In fact, I stand beside them, so I don't even have a choice in the matter. And honestly, I cannot wrap my head around a lot of the criticism that the drums get. "What's that? The timing is off? Good thing we're at a football stadium and not the fucking opera!". Ugh, it tries my patience.
Honestly, hate using this card, but I've been involved with this group and a support since Day 1. I've seen people come and go, other groups come together than fall apart, and new policies and rules by the club too numerous to post that have been drawn up, discusses in committee, given to us to gauge reactions, re-written, thrown out, and drawn up again. New heads of marketing, sales, and even the odd Club President come in and leave. Trust me when I say that I've seen it all, either as a person having some sort of direct input as I did in the early years or now as an active observer of our current executive. I can honestly say that more often than not, the club is more than willing to meet the SGs halfway on a number of issues. We're never going to get everything we want - I guarantee that. But there is more give-and-take at play than I think most people are aware. There's also league-mandated issues that the club has it's handed tied over, but in all my dealings so far, for the most part - and there have been exceptions - I've seldom left a meeting or hung up the phone talking to someone at the club still feeling they've been unreasonable about an issue. Sometimes I have, and would usually vent at the execs or other mods about it, but yeah.
Last edited by Cashcleaner; 04-10-2016 at 11:51 PM.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
I appreciate your opinion, but I don't understand why I can't help but sense some hostility? Your opinions will be yours, mine will be mine. You obviously have an attachment to this group that I don't, since I haven't been here from day 1, unlike you - that, I can also appreciate.
I don't want to get into what and who you know, or what or who I know, but I think that your personal long relationship with the group might be causing you to be over defensive of the things I say sometimes, which I get. But please don't get upset at me on a personal level.
Even though I left the group, I made and hopefully kept a lot of friends over the years. I respect opinions whether or not I agree with them or not.
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