TSN4 is also regional, for Ontario. The old main network you refer to split into 1/3/4/5.Originally Posted by Onyx
TSN4 is also regional, for Ontario. The old main network you refer to split into 1/3/4/5.
FWIW
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/tphilipakos/status/708660949125881856
Philipakos is one of the foremost experts on soccer economics. Also an agent.
MLS seems to be developing a slowly gaining crowd in Europe.
here TSN4 is the old main network. TSN4 is as big as the other 3 combined in viewership
Umm no it's not. lol
TSN4 is main channel for Ontario excluding Eastern Ontario who fall under TSN5 regional.
Putting the game on that channel compare to old TSN means less viewers since TSN broke up their main channel into regional channels like Sportsnet.
In other words, TSN4 = Sportsnet Ontario
If you go back to prior posts i already said that.
The argument was that TSN4 is tsn's largest channel by a longshot (3-4x the viewers), not TSN1 or TSN5. You will get the highest ratings on this channel, not TSN1 which is vancouver (whitecap game was on this channel). Plus you can watch all the TSN channels in HD across the country if you have a semi-decent cable package so it is national channel, this is not the case with SNO with cable providers outside the province.
Last edited by Onyx; 03-13-2016 at 07:23 PM.
I am with Rogers (but planning to get rid of cable soon) and I get all Sportsnet channels while don't have access to all TSN channels unless I end up upgrading my cable package which could cost almost double amount.
I am sure there's a lot of people in GTA who are similar to me.
from bad to worse: 62k for nycfc game
looks like vancouver didn't get past 100k as well
Chris Zelkovich
The Great Canadian Ratings Report: Toronto FC continues to struggle on TV
Even in a period of puzzling, and not-so-puzzling, sports television ratings drops the case of Toronto FC stands out.It's not that the Major League Soccer team has fallen from great heights -- ratings have never been very good. But on the heels of the team's first playoff appearance last season there are renewed hopes for more success this year both on the pitch and on the screen.
So far, the numbers are simply awful.
Not only has the team's television audience failed to grow, it appears to be regressing -- and badly.
A victory over the New York Red Bulls in the season opener attracted an average audience of only 97,000 to TSN. Proving that it wasn't TSN's fault, TFC's second game against New York City FC drew a mere 62,000 viewers to Sportsnet One.
Few sports outside of weekday afternoon lumberjack competitions do worse than that.
Those ratings are substantially less than even the most marginal sports. The world short-track speed skating championships averaged 97,000 on CBC Sunday. The Canadian cross-country ski tour lured an average of 89,000 to their couches that day.
While MLS ratings have never been strong, Toronto FC appears to be the dead weight that's dragging things down for the league. The season opener between Montreal and Vancouver, for example, averaged 205,000 viewers -- a respectable if not spectacular number. TFC, meanwhile, hasn't cracked TV's version of the Mendoza Line this season.
Last edited by Onyx; 03-16-2016 at 11:07 AM.
Slight point of order on that: ANYTHING on CBC gets a certain number of viewers just because of its reach and the fact that a good chunk of the country has no other options for TV. That having been said, 62K is niche. Which raises the point, anybody got regional numbers for the Chicago vs NYCFC game? or LAG games? Would be good to see soccer to soccer compairisons. IIRC, soccer on TSN and Sporstne is pretty bad unless its a major competition (Euro's, World Cups)
As it turns out, that number is pretty much on par with what we saw last year. Last year TFC had a bigger debut (353k) as they were playing the Whitecaps, so no surprise there. But the 2nd game of the season last year is pretty much a perfect comparison: vs. an American club and on a secondary national feed (TSN2 instead of this year with Sportsnet ONE). TFC drew only 58k for that game vs. Columbus last year, so 62k shouldn't be a surprise, it's actually slightly better. Still a terrible number overall of course.
Nobody actually believes these numbers do they?
Is anyone here a Numeris household? Does anyone here know any Numeris households?
Probably not.
This is because in our country of 36 million, there are only about 5,000 of them. That equates to 0.03% of the population determining what we watch as a whole. Perhaps fine for measuring the audience of network television 40 years ago, but not much use in our multi-channel, multi-platform world of today.
Furthermore, in the Toronto CMA, there are less than 1,000 Numeris households. Hmmm, 6.1 million people (often considered the most diverse population on the planet) represented by 1,000 television sets. There are more Numeris households in Western Canada than in Toronto. They also skew older and less diverse than the population of Toronto or any of Canada's other largest cities. I challenge Numeris to tell us how many recent immigrants, visible minorities, young people participate in these surveys? How many urban hipsters who can pronounce Lionel properly?
TV ratings tell us what older, whiter, more rural demographics do on the weekend instead of, well...a life. Western Canadian farmers love curling and NCIS. The cute half South Asian half Norwegian hairdresser watches Dr. Horribles Sing-a-Long Blog on a Nintendo.
Forget about the TV ratings. The reason...MLS, soccer in general, basketball, and other more global sports remain and will remain on television and only grow in importance because they are important. Go to any local school in Pickering, Toronto, or Oakville and ask around. The Old Canada is dying and being replaced. If you believe these numbers you are being deceived. They are the rebel flag for the sports media in this country who need to protect their jobs.
TV ratings serve the status quo. TFC fans, you are not that.
^ unfortunately tv ratings still affect revenue. People talking about the game doesn't pay any salaries.
But I don't think TFC is "dead weight," there's just More competition for fans in Toronto than Montreal or Vancouver and a big factor to getting interest in Toronto is the strength of the league, which is probably more important than the strength of the team. As interest in MLS rises across the US, it will rise in Toronto as well.
Whatever why you slice it's a pretty shit number.
However how many people watched it on MLS Live because they don't have Sportsnet One? I did, had it been on Sportsnet Ontario i'd have watched it on that.
Great first post.
Don't forget cord cutters that are growing in numbers these days. So these TV numbers are becoming less relevant and continue to die a slow death (like landline phone).
But aren't TFC games blackout for those living in GTA? I personally don't see point getting MLS live if I can't watch TFC games.
TV ratings are a currency for advertisers for sure, how much they affect revenue in this instance is debatable.
Look at the article above. Short track speed skating and cross country skiing are clearly more popular in Canada than MLS. More people watch them. So it must be fact. If you go to the pub, try putting on TFC when Anton Ohno is skating in his skivvies. If I was the maker of an energy drink, I suppose I should put my advertising and sponsorship dollars into those sports over Toronto FC. BMO bibs for everyone in Canmore?
Those sports pretending to be on par with MLS don't get that revenue because no one talks about them and people with money know tv ratings are a farce.
Last edited by robotfighter; 03-16-2016 at 01:05 PM.
I get it to watch the whole of the league -gotta know what we are trying to beat.
***********
Bit of a twitter back and forth going on between Larson and Molinaro on this, if anybody is on twitter. Molinaro's point is the # is bad, Larson's point is the comparison to other sports means little.
Can they both be right?
And it would be great of there were other options for MLS Live - one game at a time purchase, just TFC games, things like that.
All Sportsnet games will be on MLS Live plus ones that aren't nationally broadcast on TSN.
Here is the blackout list
Match Blackout Sunday, Mar 6 - 1:30 PM ET vs NY Red Bulls Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS Sunday, Mar 13 - 5:00 PM ET vs NYCFC No local blackout Sunday, Mar 20 - 7:00 PM ET vs Sporting KC No local blackout Saturday, Apr 2 - 8:00 PM ET vs Colorado No local blackout Saturday, Apr 9 - 4:00 PM ET vs New England No local blackout Saturday, Apr 16 - 5:00 PM ET vs D.C. United No local blackout Saturday, Apr 23 - 4:00 PM ET vs Montreal Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS Sunday, May 1 - 3:30 PM ET vs Portland Canada: Watch on RDS Saturday, May 7 - 7:30 PM ET vs FC Dallas Canada: Watch on TSN Saturday, May 14 - 7:30 PM ET vs Vancouver Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS Wednesday, May 18 - 7:00 PM ET vs NYCFC Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS Saturday, May 21 - 7:30 PM ET vs Columbus No local blackout Saturday, May 28 - 7:00 PM ET vs NY Red Bulls No local blackout Saturday, Jun 18 - 7:30 PM ET vs LA Galaxy No local blackout Saturday, Jun 25 - 7:30 PM ET vs Orlando No local blackout Saturday, Jul 2 - 7:30 PM ET vs Seattle No local blackout Saturday, Jul 9 - 7:30 PM ET vs Chicago No local blackout Wednesday, Jul 13 - 7:30 PM ET vs Columbus Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS Saturday, Jul 16 - 10:30 PM ET vs San Jose No local blackout Saturday, Jul 23 - 7:30 PM ET vs D.C. United No local blackout Sunday, Jul 31 - 7:00 PM ET vs Columbus No local blackout Wednesday, Aug 3 - 7:00 PM ET vs Real Salt Lake Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS Saturday, Aug 6 - 7:30 PM ET vs New England No local blackout Saturday, Aug 13 - 9:00 PM ET vs Houston No local blackout Saturday, Aug 20 - 7:00 PM ET vs Philadelphia No local blackout Wednesday, Aug 24 - 7:30 PM ET vs Orlando Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS Saturday, Aug 27 - 7:30 PM ET vs Montreal Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS Saturday, Sep 10 - 8:30 PM ET vs Chicago No local blackout Sunday, Sep 18 - 7:00 PM ET vs NY Red Bulls No local blackout Saturday, Sep 24 - 5:00 PM ET vs Philadelphia No local blackout Wednesday, Sep 28 - 7:30 PM ET vs Orlando Canada: Watch on TSN Saturday, Oct 1 - 7:30 PM ET vs D.C. United Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS Sunday, Oct 16 - 5:00 PM ET vs Montreal Canada: Watch on TSN/RDS Sunday, Oct 23 - 4:00 PM ET vs Chicago Canada: Watch on TSN
Oh, I agree, the TV ratings numbers are almost useless. But they are the only number we have to discuss because we'll never know how much revenue the games are generating. I don't know how those numbers - or what numbers - are used to determine ad prices. I imagine there's a lot of negotiating. But I do hope the ratings - or whatever numbers are used - increase because gate revenue alone won't make the league enough money to pay for the kind of players it needs.
There is almost no revenue generated from MLS games -- ratings are poor and there are no ads except at halftime and pregame. Just thank god everyday that someone at TSN cares about futbol.
Only growth in TV revenue will be based on USMNT ratings and MLS share of USMNT rights thru SUM ... but won't change in near future .. 6yr to go on current deal
Last edited by Onyx; 03-16-2016 at 02:33 PM.
Wow so I guess TFC with these numbers if it continues will be on the verge of folding, we should all be alarmed according to this older geezer Chris Zelkovich!
Question is how do for instance EPL games compare to TFC games when they are broadcast on Sportsnet and TSN. Same with bundesliga when those were being shown on channels other than Sportsnet World.
Also, how does Canada's MNT compare ratings wise?
Or...20 Red Patch Boys can become Numeris households. These 20 Numeris households watching a TFC match would equal 144,000 people.
We would be equals of World Cup Skiing and safe from relocation to Memphis.
Chris Zelkovich is the epitome of the old guard.
He treats farcical tv numbers as some sort of cultural gospel and he does this because they are the only gig he really has.
Thus, the Brier is his Gettysburg.
In reality, and far more factual, is me saying that only 4% of the Canadian population watches Hockey Night in Canada on a regular basis and thus, hockey is overblown as our cultural signifier.
we will find out in a couple weeks after mexico game
This is true. But because the country is now too diverse to have a dominant cultural signifier and advertisers are lazy they will continue to use hockey.
As for MLS tv ratings, they won't really matter until expansion is finished. When the owners stop getting franchise fee money every other revenue source will become more important.
You're right Beach_Red. Furthermore, hockey is a proven, reliable moneymaker (or was) that keeps everyone employed (or did) so why would they change it or risk losing their share with metrosexual soccer players?
The most frustrating thing in local sports media is not television ratings, it's coverage. It's listening to hosers on the Fan590 say they don't talk TFC (or Raptors, or whatever) because the audience doesn't ask for it. Well...the audience doesn't ask for it because you don't talk about it, and thus, they have moved on to other places to get their fix. If I only sell apples then I don't expect many orange seekers at my fruit stand. I do however tell them communist Orange-lovers we don't sell oranges and they should just buy apples.
It's amazing that instead of everyone just watching hockey we have soccer, cricket, rugby, basketball fans taking over the Internet in search of their thing.
TFC is a bother. Players are pansies. Bob Mackenzie has never heard of Messi. Seba is Pinocchio. Duane Ford needs to be at the Winnipeg Holiday Inn Room 413 to cover the CFL draft and you want to talk Vanney's formations?
Time is the only cure. There was a time the Raptors got 75,000 each night on tv. Where players we're sissies and Tie Domi thought he could take Charles Oakley. 25 years ago we had the CSL and North York Rockets. 25 years from now will be unrecognizable.
Every year this discussion occurs.
Ratings low
Is it really low?
Well, ratings don't mean much anymore.
And, Zelcovich doesn't really matter anyways (I think I played that role 2 years ago)
Next step should be actual marketing buying types to come in here and point out reality.
We also had NASL. Change is inevitable but MLS is an American league and what happens there will determine what happens to TFC. People always come in here to tell us how successful the Blizzard were in Toronto but it doesn't matter if the rest of the league doesn't succeed. I suspect you are right that in 25 years we will be unrecognizable but it's still difficult to predict. Soccer as a spectator sport in the USA may need to be a lot more popular at he NCAA and even high school level to translate into the professional league being a big spectator sport.
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