2016 TFC/MLS TV Ratings

[SoccMan2]

It's better than the what 60000 they were averaging in TV ratings during the season and that's because it's the playoffs and it's on the main TSN channel, yes the media awareness has been a lot more in the playoffs but nothing not even close to what say the Raptors got during their playoff run with the media. A colleague at work who has been to a couple of TFC games over the years and who is a big fan of the other big 3 Toronto sports teams asked me yesterday who Toronto was playing in the next round lol, so it just shows that there is still not enough interest from the general sports fan in Toronto even with TFC so deep into a playoff run, I'm sure this colleague of mine knew who the Raptors next opponent was last year in their playoff run lol.

[Pookie]

^ this is the same story repeated.

MLS... not soccer... is fringe in North America. "Big league" soccer fans don't relate to the quirky playoffs and the "North American" fan doesn't really care. It's stuck in the middle, IMO.

If it wants to get serious about "Playoffs" it needs to make the playoffs matter and easy to follow. One game knockouts followed by a two week break... that followed a break at the beginning of October while the seeding and qualification for playoffs was still underway... doesn't help. The supposedly most exciting time in the season, the thing we build towards... playoff qualification and the playoffs themselves... have about a 1 month break sprinkled around them. Dumb, IMO.

[SoccMan2]

The time between playoff games in fairness has a bit to do with the FIFA break not much you can do about that, I actually don't mind the playoff format if you do well in the regular season you get one or more playoff home games if not then you might not get any if you don't advance from the knockout game. I might make the two game home and away a total points series rather than total goals aggregate, because let's say a team gets clobbered in that first game of the two game series say 5- 0 or even 3-0 that score line more or less renders that second game as almost meaningless because 99% of the time no team will come back from a say 5-0 score line in that second game all the people who had bought tickets to that second game are now left watching a meaningless game, however , if it was a two game total points home and away that team that just got clobbered say 5 -0 still has a chance in that second game if it was total points and fans who had bought playoff tickets still have a series on their hands.

[Pookie]

^ oh absolutely the breaks have to do with the international calendar.

And to fix it, they introduce the idea of playing through the winter which would be horrible for a number of fans, including us.

But they could also have a shorter regular season and conclude the playoffs in late September. Or do away with them altogether and have a table champion while playing up the Open Cup or some other season long tournament.

[TFC07]

That isn't bad rating given game was only on TSN4 and TSN5. It wasn't national television game what some people here are making it out to be.

[PAOK17]

^ this is the same story repeated.

MLS... not soccer... is fringe in North America. "Big league" soccer fans don't relate to the quirky playoffs and the "North American" fan doesn't really care. It's stuck in the middle, IMO.

If it wants to get serious about "Playoffs" it needs to make the playoffs matter and easy to follow. One game knockouts followed by a two week break... that followed a break at the beginning of October while the seeding and qualification for playoffs was still underway... doesn't help. The supposedly most exciting time in the season, the thing we build towards... playoff qualification and the playoffs themselves... have about a 1 month break sprinkled around them. Dumb, IMO.

At first, I would have agreed. But when compared to other sports, it's not that unusual to have extra time off between playoff rounds. I mean look at baseball. The Jays and Cleveland played Game 1 of the ALCS 5 days after the Jays swept Texas, and 4 days after Cleveland swept Boston. In a league where 1 day off is rare, that's an eternity. The NFL has 2 weeks off between the conference championships and Super Bowl (yeah, yeah there is the Pro Bowl in between).

At the end of the day, if someone is looking for something to not like about MLS, they'll find it.

[PAOK17]

^ oh absolutely the breaks have to do with the international calendar.

And to fix it, they introduce the idea of playing through the winter which would be horrible for a number of fans, including us.

But they could also have a shorter regular season and conclude the playoffs in late September. Or do away with them altogether and have a table champion while playing up the Open Cup or some other season long tournament.

Now this I can really get behind! Yeah and I agree, a shorter season might be considered. I mean our regular season is as many games as most traditional leagues, but then we have an extra few months of playoffs tacked. Though I feel the single table champion will never work. MLS has really committed to the whole playoff system through their constant expansion of it. It won't be long before it will be 16 teams making it. Kind of unfortunate.

[Pookie]

At first, I would have agreed. But when compared to other sports, it's not that unusual to have extra time off between playoff rounds. I mean look at baseball. The Jays and Cleveland played Game 1 of the ALCS 5 days after the Jays swept Texas, and 4 days after Cleveland swept Boston. In a league where 1 day off is rare, that's an eternity. The NFL has 2 weeks off between the conference championships and Super Bowl (yeah, yeah there is the Pro Bowl in between).

At the end of the day, if someone is looking for something to not like about MLS, they'll find it.

Quite correct on the Super Bowl (and Grey Cup) but note that the 2 week break is purposely designed as an event. Tickets, lots of them, are sold to promotional parties, concerts, and other events. It's a week of hype leading to the biggest game in their calendar. And with millions of viewers for both Cups, it clearly works.

Contrast that with the break in the MLS Playoffs where it's not a break for hype. It's a break because there is something more important to do (or a friendly to be played).

Note too that I can't think of a single mainstream North American sport that takes the same pause during their playoff qualification run.

Now, MLS isn't to blame for the breaks. I'm sure they don't want them. But the breaks aren't surprises. They are known. They could design their season around them so as not to pause during 2 of their most important periods of the year.

That might mean; a shorter season, do away with the aggregate series, starting the season earlier, a few more midweek games than they would like or some other variant.

[mr k]

Note too that I can't think of a single mainstream North American sport that takes the same pause during their playoff qualification run.

You can't compare MLS to other North American leagues since their sports global federation doesn't run the sport. The leagues are basically at the top of the pyramid. Plus one sport isn't played globally and 2 sports are taken seriously in only about 10 countries.

Other soccer leagues take breaks for the same things as MLS and some take winter breaks. Their seasons run 9-10 months also. FA Cups are played a week before or after Champions League finals. The only difference is they don't have playoffs after the season ends as I view the Cup & Champions League competitions as quasi-playoffs.

Can't MLS fans multi-task and be able to handle league matches, Voyageurs or US Cup matches & World Cup qualifying matches at the same time. Can't MLS fans realize that for the sport to truly advance in North America, it won't be at the top of the pyramid a la NBA, MLB, NHL etc..

[Kaz]

^ this is the same story repeated.

MLS... not soccer... is fringe in North America. "Big league" soccer fans don't relate to the quirky playoffs and the "North American" fan doesn't really care. It's stuck in the middle, IMO.

If it wants to get serious about "Playoffs" it needs to make the playoffs matter and easy to follow. One game knockouts followed by a two week break... that followed a break at the beginning of October while the seeding and qualification for playoffs was still underway... doesn't help. The supposedly most exciting time in the season, the thing we build towards... playoff qualification and the playoffs themselves... have about a 1 month break sprinkled around them. Dumb, IMO.

That is total BS.


Champions League, Euro Cup, and the World Cup all have a play off format very similar to the MLS. The Format is very similar to the Champions League.


North America is large so we have two conferences that play 34 games where most of the games are played in conference.


At the end of the season the best over all team of the regular season gets the Supporters Shield. The Best teams in Each Conference then go on to the Playoffs and play against each other for the right to take the MLS Cup. The Playoff format is not at all foreign to people used to international Football and North American Fans are perfect used to Multi Conference leagues. It is Snobbery plan and simple. It is the same kind of thinking as the Italian Coach snubbing Gio for playing here.

The only real issue the the break in the middle which FIFA could move back two weeks so it falls between the Conference Finals and the Cup game as there is a break between the final and the cup game anyway. That is the simple solution. It would have put the conference final in Montreal this Saturday, our home game on the 19th or 20th and the Cup on December 3rd or 4th. The other breaks don't help for sure and that is something MLS needs to discuss with FIFA because we aren't flipping to the Euro system playing and we aren't flipping to the Two part season we see in Central America. A little work with FIFA for a minor tweak and it would be fine.

[ensco]

......The only real issue the the break in the middle which FIFA could move back two weeks .......

FIFA is not even going to allow MLS to finish the sentence if they ask for this. The line will just go dead.

I mean, that's laughable, the November break has existed for decades. It gets a lot colder from mid to late November in most of Europe (same as here), they are not about to start selling hundreds of thousands of fewer tickets to their WC qualifying games, in order to help some minor league elsewhere solve a self-imposed problem!

Sweden finished their league competition November 6. MLS needs to start earlier, or whack two games off their schedule. We played a 30 game schedule in 2007, it's 34 games now. (Sweden play 30 games, April 9 to Nov 6)

[TravelPat]

I think it is going to be challenging to get a good ratings number for the first game against Montreal. The game is only going to be on TSN1, TSN3 and only RDS2 in French. The reason - regional hockey rights. A Leafs game is gong to be on TSN4 and a Habs - Sens game is going to be on TS5 and the main RDS network in Quebec.

The game back here should do better as it is on the full TSN (1,3,4 and 5) and main RDS station.

[Pookie]

That is total BS.


Champions League, Euro Cup, and the World Cup all have a play off format very similar to the MLS. The Format is very similar to the Champions League.


North America is large so we have two conferences that play 34 games where most of the games are played in conference.


At the end of the season the best over all team of the regular season gets the Supporters Shield. The Best teams in Each Conference then go on to the Playoffs and play against each other for the right to take the MLS Cup. The Playoff format is not at all foreign to people used to international Football and North American Fans are perfect used to Multi Conference leagues. It is Snobbery plan and simple. It is the same kind of thinking as the Italian Coach snubbing Gio for playing here.

The only real issue the the break in the middle which FIFA could move back two weeks so it falls between the Conference Finals and the Cup game as there is a break between the final and the cup game anyway. That is the simple solution. It would have put the conference final in Montreal this Saturday, our home game on the 19th or 20th and the Cup on December 3rd or 4th. The other breaks don't help for sure and that is something MLS needs to discuss with FIFA because we aren't flipping to the Euro system playing and we aren't flipping to the Two part season we see in Central America. A little work with FIFA for a minor tweak and it would be fine.

Well, that's all well and fine (though FIFA lobbying is a non starter).

I am saying that there is a problem, hypothesizing as to a possible cause and making suggestions.

The facts are that the interest in the MLS playoffs only appears when your team is there. MLS playoff threads for teams In previous years attract crickets. I'd wager that very few die hards here could name the last 5 MLS Cup finalists without looking it up. I am sure some could but you get my point.

Even when our team is in it, the facts are that Defoe's first game attracted more viewers than our deepest playoff run ever.

Something is off.

[Kaz]

Well, that's all well and fine (though FIFA lobbying is a non starter).

I am saying that there is a problem, hypothesizing as to a possible cause and making suggestions.

The facts are that the interest in the MLS playoffs only appears when your team is there. MLS playoff threads for teams In previous years attract crickets. I'd wager that very few die hards here could name the last 5 MLS Cup finalists without looking it up. I am sure some could but you get my point.

Even when our team is in it, the facts are that Defoe's first game attracted more viewers than our deepest playoff run ever.

Something is off.

The issue isn't the Format. It is a combination of people seeing a sport that takes 90 minutes to play take 2 hours with 45+ minutes of continuous play as boring while they also see a sport that takes 3 hours to play a 60 minute game of which only about 18 minutes of that is actual game play as exciting. Then you have Sports pundits that will show pretty much every other sport respect openly ridicule soccer. Add to that Broadcasts that still aren't fully to a Euro level. (though they are much better from the CBC days) They still don't do a great job of should the action occurring. My father pointed that out. He find the TV broadcasts boring but when I drag him to a game he loves it because he can see all the things happening off the ball.


All of this is part of the issue. There is also no out of market buzz for the playoffs. If you team isn't playing it isn't a big deal. That is marketing on top of everything else. Then you have Euro Snobbery people that refuse to see MLS as being of value while basically watching top four teams in the Euro leagues without realizing that the Parity in MLS basically gives our games more interest. It is highly likely the all of the Playoff teams this year could compete if not at the top of the Championship then the bottom half of the Premier League, just because the quality between top and bottom is so great. (Granted that is a bit optimistic but I don't think it is by much. We just pay our players significantly less then they do in Europe.


That is the bottom line. It is part marketing, part broadcasting, part perception, part media shaping that perception and, part Euro Snobbery. The Playoff format is the least of the issues.

[Kaz]

FIFA is not even going to allow MLS to finish the sentence if they ask for this. The line will just go dead.

I mean, that's laughable, the November break has existed for decades. It gets a lot colder from mid to late November in most of Europe (same as here), they are not about to start selling hundreds of thousands of fewer tickets to their WC qualifying games, in order to help some minor league elsewhere solve a self-imposed problem!

Sweden finished their league competition November 6. MLS needs to start earlier, or whack two games off their schedule. We played a 30 game schedule in 2007, it's 34 games now. (Sweden play 30 games, April 9 to Nov 6)

That works too. The play off format isn't the issue. if FIFA won't move the date then MLS needs to find away to put the MLS Cup just after it.


Dropping 4 games would be a huge help for a number of reasons. It would make it easier to Compete in both MLS and the Champions League that way too. Which would also help set the playoffs.




MLS is at a cross roads. They have to do something.


The League is going to get to a point where they are going to want to increase the number of games again or lower the number of Inter-conference games. I doubt they want to lower the number of inter-conference games.


That means the season will get longer not shorter.




MLS needs to make some serious changes to the Roster Rules and Salary cap to allow a much larger roster with significantly more depth to allow more mid week games. That is the other solution more mid week games to put the play offs in sync with the international window without decreasing the number of games.




MLS will have to figure something out eventually.

[Pookie]

The issue isn't the Format. It is a combination of people seeing a sport that takes 90 minutes to play take 2 hours with 45+ minutes of continuous play as boring while they also see a sport that takes 3 hours to play a 60 minute game of which only about 18 minutes of that is actual game play as exciting. Then you have Sports pundits that will show pretty much every other sport respect openly ridicule soccer. Add to that Broadcasts that still aren't fully to a Euro level. (though they are much better from the CBC days) They still don't do a great job of should the action occurring. My father pointed that out. He find the TV broadcasts boring but when I drag him to a game he loves it because he can see all the things happening off the ball.


All of this is part of the issue. There is also no out of market buzz for the playoffs. If you team isn't playing it isn't a big deal. That is marketing on top of everything else. Then you have Euro Snobbery people that refuse to see MLS as being of value while basically watching top four teams in the Euro leagues without realizing that the Parity in MLS basically gives our games more interest. It is highly likely the all of the Playoff teams this year could compete if not at the top of the Championship then the bottom half of the Premier League, just because the quality between top and bottom is so great. (Granted that is a bit optimistic but I don't think it is by much. We just pay our players significantly less then they do in Europe.


That is the bottom line. It is part marketing, part broadcasting, part perception, part media shaping that perception and, part Euro Snobbery. The Playoff format is the least of the issues.

The playoff format contributes to the euro snobbery and "fringe league" status in North America.

The examples you cite of leagues that take pauses have nothing to do with North America. Which is where you are trying to sell this league.

North Americans clearly follow soccer. The challenge is getting them to follow MLS.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Well, that's all well and fine (though FIFA lobbying is a non starter).

I am saying that there is a problem, hypothesizing as to a possible cause and making suggestions.

The facts are that the interest in the MLS playoffs only appears when your team is there. MLS playoff threads for teams In previous years attract crickets. I'd wager that very few die hards here could name the last 5 MLS Cup finalists without looking it up. I am sure some could but you get my point.

Even when our team is in it, the facts are that Defoe's first game attracted more viewers than our deepest playoff run ever.

Something is off.

Well the run ain't over yet. But I know and agree to your point in pussplops disinterest.

[OgtheDim]

Didn't anybody in Canada really care about the NHL playoffs last season?

Still happened of course.

But, realistically, in all sports, if your team isn't in it, your interest drops (with the possible exception of the World Cup and the Super Bowl).

[ensco]

I really wish MLS would wrap up by Halloween. Find a couple of weeks somehow, start the playoffs Oct 15, play twice a week in the playoffs (it's common in Europe, UEFA final 16 teams play 4 times in two weeks).

Learn from the NCAA - October Madness. Schedule around the World Series, and play on their off dates.

[Beach_Red]

I really wish MLS would wrap up by Halloween. Find a couple of weeks somehow, start the playoffs Oct 15, play twice a week in the playoffs (it's common in Europe, UEFA final 16 teams play 4 times in two weeks).

Learn from the NCAA - October Madness. Schedule around the World Series, and play on their off dates.

This is a good idea. Cram as many playoff games as close together as possible, make a real event out of it. All TV is heading towards 'binge watching,' that's what March madness is, and other league playoffs.

And, I'm just wondering, what would be acceptable TV ratings for an MLS playoff game in Canada?

[OgtheDim]

Its still a gate driven league. The owners will not give up a single home game for the sake of chasing ratings.

Now, once the league gets to 32 teams sometime next decade, what I could see them getting behind is a 32 game league that runs until September followed by a full league cup that runs 5 rounds until the end of November. 31 playoff games as against the current 17 - the loss of 1 home game would be offset by every team being in. And that would build buzz. But that isn't going to happen until they get to 32.

[Richard]

No interleague games is the solution when the league gets bloated at 32 teams.

[Beach_Red]

Its still a gate driven league. The owners will not give up a single home game for the sake of chasing ratings.

I'm just curious, is there a problem being a gate-driven league?

[Pookie]

This is a good idea. Cram as many playoff games as close together as possible, make a real event out of it. All TV is heading towards 'binge watching,' that's what March madness is, and other league playoffs.

And, I'm just wondering, what would be acceptable TV ratings for an MLS playoff game in Canada?

I think March Madness is a pretty good model. Binge watching perhaps but the biggest booster are the brackets and the resulting pools. People watch simply because they are in a pool.

[OgtheDim]

I'm just curious, is there a problem being a gate-driven league?

Its complicated.

A bit of context:

I grew up in the mid 70's watching OHL and was quite happy to go to a game with 3000 other people in the middle of February at what was at the time the most accessible large sporting event in town.
Apart from those matches, the only sports you could watch on TV were

1. 1 Saturday night Leafs game
2. 1 Wednesday night Leafs game
3. 1 Weekend Jays game (usually Saturday)
4. 1 weeknight Jays game (if they were at home)
5. 2 NFL games per Sunday - one at 1 pm that was usually the local team away (Bills) and 1 at 4 pm
6. 1 Monday night NFL game that always started at 9 pm
7. 2 CFL games per weekend
8. 1 NBA game per weekend starting at Christmas
9. College football bowl games around New Years
10. Whatever Wide World of Sports was covering that week (Harlem Globetrotters, skiing from weeks ago, surfing, boxing, weird sports from Europe)

I don't think people realise what a big shift it was for the Jays to be covered 60 games a season by TSN back in the day - that was a HUGE commitment by Labatts (who owned both TSN and the Jays) and nobody knew if people would be that interested.

Gates were important to leagues cause there wasn't that much offered for teams in terms of TV outings.

Now:

This weekend on the grey market I have watched US vs. Mexico, England vs. Australia in Rugby League, some UK horse racing, a bit of Italy vs. Leichenstein, + I've sat and watched a good chunk of our win last Sunday vs. NYCFC. And that's nowhere near as much sport as I could have watched if I choose.

TV provides more money then gates provide to the NHL (in Canada), NBA, NFL, CFL, MLB, top conference US College Football and top conference US College Basketball. TV also gives more money then the gates in most of Europe. But, without that TV money, the public has WAAAY more choices then they used to.

If you are a gate driven league, you have to compete with everything else going on in your city. BUT, if you are a TV driven league, the TV companies pump up your product tremendously as great spectacle in order to drive eyeballs to them.

In essence, TV revenue driven leagues have a large partner in tandem with them. Now, in the US, Fox is committed to being that soccer partner with the USMNT and thus MLS through SUM. They know that the long term bet on sport down there is soccer will take over domestically from baseball and basketball. Up here, TSN and Rogers don't have the same amount of leeway quarterly to develop an audience. CBC does.

In the US, make SUM and US soccer happy and thus MLS happy, make money from the World Cup

In Canada, make Victor happy, make money from the World Cup and possibly also through him make money through UEFA rights.

[Kaz]

The playoff format contributes to the euro snobbery and "fringe league" status in North America.

The examples you cite of leagues that take pauses have nothing to do with North America. Which is where you are trying to sell this league.

North Americans clearly follow soccer. The challenge is getting them to follow MLS.

No Hipster Yuppie Snobs who think it is cool to follow Euro Football and turn their nose up at anything different as not being "authentic" is what is contributing to Euro Snobs. In other words Euro Snobs are Euro Snobs because they want to be Euro Snobs. A little shaming might help. Euro Snobs are also a major reason Soccer is a harder sell to Americans and Canadians because they see these hipster dips in their little driving hats and $200 jeans, drinking their $14 double pump mocha latte vente grande whipped foam cinnamon coffee ground by small dogs in top hats on a Tuesday in May.. and want nothing to do with the sport.


The system that MLS uses is what works in North America. It always has because North America is not like Europe. If the North American way is no good for them too bad. There is no RIGHT way to run a football season.


The reality of higher tv ratings for non-MLS Soccer likely comes from two groups..Eurosnobs and New Comers and their Children who watch "their" league. The first group needs to be shamed. The Second you can't really faulted but can be converted with time and some marketing. The reality though is the a large number of MLS fans are younger. Hispanics make up something like 1/3 to 1/2 of all MLS fans, people under 18 make up almost 20%. Nearly 60% of MLS fans are under 45. Many can be assumed to be young professionals. While less than 60% of MLS core demographic have TV subscriptions. I'm willing to bet there is a high cross over between Cord Cutters and MLS fans. As such you are not going to see growth.. in fact you will see it sit flat or even decrease, until TSN and Sportsnet (and American counterparts) offer their apps at reasonable rates (24.99 a month is not really reasonable to me) without a TV sub or MLS Live is offered without blackouts. Even then it isn't going to be TV ratings.


MLS is a gate driven league and will get it's future remote viewers from New Media not from TV ratings.


Of course people on this board don't really care about facts and figures much of the time because that gets in the way of their opinions, however I will put the data out there anyway.

Data comes from a 2015 Clearleap survey and 2015 Public Policy Polling survey.

[Pookie]

Didn't anybody in Canada really care about the NHL playoffs last season?

Still happened of course.

But, realistically, in all sports, if your team isn't in it, your interest drops (with the possible exception of the World Cup and the Super Bowl).

To an extent, yes. But baseball fans generally know who won the World Series, etc.

In our case, we have a deep playoff run and 100k fewer people watch it vs those that tuned in to see the spectacle that was Defoe's first game. Or the season opener in season 1.

In that sense, interest hasn't peaked. It's dropped... from at least where it could be. Fans did tune in. And quite a few haven't tuned back in. Even when it supposedly matters.

[michaeltfc91]

This could easily have happened and should have been done. The regular season should have ended Sunday October 2nd. That means we had to make up only 2 regular season games during the season (almost everyone had 32 games played to this point). International break occurs then playoffs start. Playin October 16. Quarter final October 20 and 23. Semi final October 27 and 30. Final Sunday November 6. 3 week playoff and every round ends on a Sunday. And you get a week to set up the final

[mistercorporate]

I checked out Google Trends for "Toronto FC". Interest has spiked to the highest level since August 2009. If we go deeper into the playoffs, expect it to reach levels last seen during our first year! We're back baby:
https://www.google.ca/trends/explore...q=toronto%20fc

[ensco]

I checked out Google Trends for "Toronto FC". Interest has spiked to the highest level since August 2009. If we go deeper into the playoffs, expect it to reach levels last seen during our first year! We're back baby:
https://www.google.ca/trends/explore...q=toronto%20fc

Wait.

What? We are only now at August 2009 levels?

So where we are now, has generated the same interest that the JDG signing did.

Saying that Peddie/Anselmi put TFC in a deep hole, doesn't do justice to the epic deepness of the hole.