2016 TFC/MLS TV Ratings

[Pookie]

The thing about the NA playoff structure is that is where leagues pick up the casual fan on TV who doesn't want to invest in a full season of following a league. If they like what they see, then they might join the regular fans that watch games during the season. And if they like that, they may eventually pay to come to those games. And if they really like that, they'll eventually join the supporters section. And if they get caught up in that, they become hardcore ultras.

Well judging by the ratings, if this is the strategy it needs to be re-evaluated.

This board has some of the most hardcore fans in the game. How many watched the playoffs once TFC was out?

I didn't even know who won the MLS Cup this year without looking it up. And I couldn't tell you which network... if any carried it.

I am absolutely certain that aside from the game we hosted, I cannot name the MLS playoff winner from any game over the last decade and I certainly can't admit to watching a playoff game not involving TFC from start to finish in well... ever.

I could however tell you which clubs were the strongest from start to finish as measured by both the table and a little envy over the years.

[OgtheDim]

I am convinced that most people at TFC games have no idea what happens between home games. If you took a poll last week asking how many players SJE finished with, the vast majority would say 11.

[ensco]

In the short-term, Cleveland. Forty years from now, Golden State.

But that's an extreme. Nobody will remember how good the Miami Heat were in the regular season five years ago.

I'll take this bet.

Lots of Wilt Chamberlain teams won the regular season best record. Nobody cares. Wilt is a loser because he "only" won two titles.

The greatest regular season team in NBA history is the 1970-71 Milwaukee Bucks. Went 66-16 (lost 5 of their last 6 because nobody cared about these records back then, and they sat everyone). Massive stats in terms of margins of victory etc - they had a margin of victory of 12.5, GSW last year was 10.5. Lost only two games in the playoffs.

Absolutely nobody remembers the 1971 Bucks regular season.

[fergiejr]

I don't put a lot of stock in ratings - does anyone on here have a Nielsen box? Who among us is more likely to go to a bar to watch the game with like minded people than to stay home and watch it on TSN/Sportsnet? Do they count every MLS live connection in the ratings as well? That wouldn't work for home games and people watching through a VPN tunnel.

I think there may have been a time where Nielsen ratings grabbed a good sample of the demographic, but I don't think that is valid anymore. But maybe that is just me not understanding how the ratings are calculated - whether they know if I am watching the last TFC game live or on my PVR.

[Pookie]

^ well other sports with higher ratings would be influenced by the same factors wouldn't they?

[Abou Sky]

MLS won't have higher TV ratings until the quality of the product on the field is better.

People go to games for a great atmosphere, but watching it on TV compared to top leagues is painful.

[TravelPat]

Chris Zelkovich - who does the Great Canadian Ratings Report blog of weekend sports ratings just had this exchange on Twitter with somebody. Apparently TFC are averaging 38,000 for the season thus far.

• Qman ‏@Qman604 9h9 hours ago
  @czelkov argos and toronto fc when directly head to head last weekend, interesting to see the numbers
  
  0 retweets0 likes
  

Chris Zelkovich‏@czelkov

@Qman604 Not really: Argos/Redblacks 562,000. TFC game didn't register (season average 38,000).

[Doucet3]

MLS won't have higher TV ratings until the quality of the product on the field is better.

People go to games for a great atmosphere, but watching it on TV compared to top leagues is painful.

I wouldn't say painful it's decent football compared to top leagues... What I'm thinking is it's that football is a "great day out" for the family and TFC games are an experience (us southenders bring something NO other sport can) so when we go on the road the avg family dosnt always pay attention whilst still being a fan they arnt a supporter like most of us on here who follow the team any possible way we can they'd rather watch the highlights pack to participate in banter .. And that's the few that do

i think ink as football grows in Canada our numbers will grow

[Oldtimer]

Chris Zelkovich - who does the Great Canadian Ratings Report blog of weekend sports ratings just had this exchange on Twitter with somebody. Apparently TFC are averaging 38,000 for the season thus far.

People over 60 watch a lot of TV, especially out west (where most CFL viewership lives).

[OgtheDim]

The issue about ratings is that the media has no way of judging interest in any sport apart from TV (and radio) ratings. There has been a jump in TFC media coverage in the last 3 seasons. But will that continue if the TV ratings don't increase?

E.g. How long will Rogers put money into a twice weekly podcast on Fan590, and have a guy spending 1/2 his time on the team (Riccio)?

The demographics of soccer in this city are excellent - supporters are the target market for advertisers. And the fan base is passionate about all the details going on with the team, and devours all media involving TFC. There just isn't enough of people like us, but who don't go to games.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This argument is funny to me. Overall I know most of the talk in here comes from a good place wanting to see the team succeed at every possible level or medium but really for me it breaks down to how a sport is attractive.

TFC - Not attractive on TV
Argos- Not attractive live.

I'm okay with that right now. It will change slowly over the years since the CFL is proof all it takes is being there for decades for people to watch it. It's not about quality standards.

[Yohan]

If you have an Argos game that's plastered over all 5 TSN channels and you get a TFC game that's on Sportsnet 360, of course the numbers are going to be different.

[OgtheDim]

A whole lot of




going on between some CFL and TFC supporters.

Meh...ratings are bad but the soccer demographics are good.

This is a marathon that will take decades.

[paul-collins]

Meh...ratings are bad but the soccer demographics are good.

This is a marathon that will take decades.

A lesson that Rogers *has* learned with the Jays - winning sells.

This season will do a lot to raise the profile of the team, and the league, in Toronto. the team will earn its move onto better channels for next year. (Wasn't long ago that you had to watch on Gol TV!)

Hey, the game got column inches in the Globe today. That's not a regular occurrence. Granted, it was about half the spread of the CanWNT game, but at least it was there!

[Jack]

Do those TV numbers include streaming? TFC is a much younger and more tech-savvy fanbase. I'd wager there is a solid streaming audience. If Rogers and Bell had half a brain, they'd let MLS Live stream TFC games in their region and just make them use the Canadian stream with the Canadian ads. That way, they could show the audience to advertisers and demand more money. They aren't forcing anyone to buy their cable packages just for TFC games...

[TFC07]

Do those TV numbers include streaming? TFC is a much younger and more tech-savvy fanbase. I'd wager there is a solid streaming audience. If Rogers and Bell had half a brain, they'd let MLS Live stream TFC games in their region and just make them use the Canadian stream with the Canadian ads. That way, they could show the audience to advertisers and demand more money. They aren't forcing anyone to buy their cable packages just for TFC games...

Agreed.

Right now, I have IPTV but wouldn't mind paying for MLS live if I could watch every TFC game.

I don't have cable and I personally don't know many people who still have cable or watch TV in general.

[Abou Sky]

I wouldn't say painful it's decent football compared to top leagues... What I'm thinking is it's that football is a "great day out" for the family and TFC games are an experience (us southenders bring something NO other sport can) so when we go on the road the avg family dosnt always pay attention whilst still being a fan they arnt a supporter like most of us on here who follow the team any possible way we can they'd rather watch the highlights pack to participate in banter .. And that's the few that do

i think ink as football grows in Canada our numbers will grow

But look at the numbers that EPL gets at 8am

People wake up early to watch the games. Pubs have EPL breakfast buffets here.

People like soccer here, but I couldn't make it to the DC game and was watching on TV and I was wincing at the quality of play from DC.

There is a lot of good soccer played in MLS, but I would say that on any weekend, maybe 25% of games are worth watching if it isn't your team and a lot of the time, you have no idea which 25% will be good.

[OgtheDim]

There's also a lot of crap baseball, NFL, NHL and CFL games that people don't watch unless its their team. The difference is decades of people getting used to a product and being willing to watch anything because its their game. That develops enough to get a large enough crowd to make it worth the network's while to cover other teams.


I know darn well MLS can be dumpster level but ....damn it...its my dumpster.

I must admit to avoiding SJE, DCU, CBus and Houston whenever they play, but I enjoy watching most of the league.


I think the same thing of the CFL. I avoid Winnipeg and BC but the rest I like watching.

[mr k]

Agreed.

Right now, I have IPTV but wouldn't mind paying for MLS live if I could watch every TFC game.

I don't have cable and I personally don't know many people who still have cable or watch TV in general.

90% of Canadian households still have cable or related paid tv package. Average Canadian watches about 30 hours of tv/week.

So streaming won't move the ratings today.

And TFC isn't even the most watched football on Canadian tv. Whitecaps have the highest MLS ratings in Canada but still average below 100k. Champions League on weekday afternoons gets 2-4x more. EPL in the mornings get 3-5x more than TFC. Canada women get 2-5x more for friendlies and 25x at least more for WC and Olympics. Likewise for Euros & WC.

[Canary10]

I think the quality really does matter. EPL is almost always good to watch. It's just so much faster, passing is always bang on, decision making quicker. MLS is like watching teams playing soccer in a bog. CFL is lucky it doesn't really compete with anyone the way MLS has to.

[GBV]

I think the quality really does matter. EPL is almost always good to watch. It's just so much faster, passing is always bang on, decision making quicker. MLS is like watching teams playing soccer in a bog. CFL is lucky it doesn't really compete with anyone the way MLS has to.

Yet the top teams in the world/Europe are not even in that league.
MLS is always going to be up against it as far as TV "comparison numbers" go. So much quality soccer going on elsewhere and becoming so easily available to watch almost 12 months a year.
CFL games always have two Cancon markets -- and TSN is a whore in its efforts to (try to) get people to watch. The (alleged) viewing numbers I can take or leave ....

[Onyx]

I think the quality really does matter. EPL is almost always good to watch. It's just so much faster, passing is always bang on, decision making quicker. MLS is like watching teams playing soccer in a bog. CFL is lucky it doesn't really compete with anyone the way MLS has to.

MLS is not complete shit .. i would say mid-League One, houston and chicago upper league Two.
TV money has had a really big impact level of play in Premiership and upper-mid Championship last few years, and it is really good football, no doubt.

[ensco]

MLS is a minor league and that just doesn't work on TV. It never will. On a good day the soccer can be good, sure, but so what? It's an unimportant league, a backwater. That severely caps the potential.

Same for Euro hockey leagues. And the CFL. The world has changed.

It is a massive missed opportunity for the EPL's senior teams that they stayed in that charming setup and didn't break away and expand to North America in the 90s (or that they don't now). What the eff are they doing with teams in Leicester? Have they not seen what American networks pay big sports leagues? North American EPL teams/games would generate real ratings, literally billions.

[Kaz]

I just picked up Vmedia (legal) IPTV (yes I know the rep actually pleased with it in Niagara through Cable internet as most issues seem to be with Bell) actually had to pay extra for Sportsnet 360 as it is only included in theme packs.

Honestly though I sadly watched through internet streams that aren't really legal or great quality. MLS live has enough blackouts that It isn't worth it to me to pay for it at $15 a month for just TFC. Next season my choice will be keep the $30 TV package that has TSN and then pay the extra $10 for all the Sportsnet channels or pay $15 a month for MLS Live. It is a tough call. With the TV I'm getting TSN GO and Sportsnet Now as part of the package.. so I can stream in the same places. Though if they do the single Team thing for the whole season I may consider it if the price is right.

I wish Sportsnet and TSN (or one of the two) would bring in some people from Europe to improve the broadcasts.. though honestly there is a world of difference between 2007 watching on CBC (even 2010) and today. The TV product is much better. They need more wide shots. My father said when we watch the Game against LA at Skydome how much more exciting it is live because you see all the off the ball runs happening.

What saddens me is people still say it is boring.. which I don't get.. they watch a 60 minute game take 3.5 hours and think it is exciting, or a 3 hour baseball came where two guys are just playing catch for most of the game but Soccer which is constant action that last 2 hours including pregame and half time with more the 1.5 hours of it actual game play.. and some how it is boring. It seems to me to be as interesting as hockey.. which take 2.5 hours to play a 60 minute game.

I would love to see some goal post cameras and the occasional over pitch shot which we should have the ability to do now.

The other issue is I think there are a lot of North American Fans like me that follow a single team. I rarely watch a game that doesn't involve TFC. This weekend was a oddity in that I watched part of the Portland Game on Fox and part of the Vancouver game on TSN.

TFC games I rarely miss. In fact it is the whole reason I got IPTV (legal and paid for) so that I could watch TFC. And at $30-40 a month I may keep paying for it.. particularly as I don't have to pay for in the off season.

[Auzzy]

MLS live has enough blackouts that It isn't worth it to me to pay for it at $15 a month for just TFC. Next season my choice will be keep the $30 TV package that has TSN and then pay the extra $10 for all the Sportsnet channels or pay $15 a month for MLS Live. It is a tough call. With the TV I'm getting TSN GO and Sportsnet Now as part of the package.. so I can stream in the same places. Though if they do the single Team thing for the whole season I may consider it if the price is right.

I wish Sportsnet and TSN (or one of the two) would bring in some people from Europe to improve the broadcasts.. though honestly there is a world of difference between 2007 watching on CBC (even 2010) and today. The TV product is much better. They need more wide shots. My father said when we watch the Game against LA at Skydome how much more exciting it is live because you see all the off the ball runs happening.

We haven't had cable since 1999. Yes the MLS Live blackouts on some games are annoying, but it's extremely easy to bypass them, with no extra charge on top of the MLS Live price itself. I haven't missed a TFC game on MLS Live all season. (BTW I'm in the stadium for almost all home games.)

If you buy MLS Live during the preseason, it's $65 for the season, e.g., approx. $8 for month (spread only over the approx. 8 month season).

I agree the MLS broadcasts could be much better. It's amazing how often they zoom into some player after a play, for no important reason, meanwhile missing an important play elsewhere on the pitch. Also some of the announcers are pretty awful.

[mr k]

MLS is a minor league and that just doesn't work on TV. It never will. On a good day the soccer can be good, sure, but so what? It's an unimportant league, a backwater. That severely caps the potential.

Same for Euro hockey leagues. And the CFL. The world has changed.

It is a massive missed opportunity for the EPL's senior teams that they stayed in that charming setup and didn't break away and expand to North America in the 90s (or that they don't now). What the eff are they doing with teams in Leicester? Have they not seen what American networks pay big sports leagues? North American EPL teams/games would generate real ratings, literally billions.

For this season, in global tv revenues alone, EPL will get about US$11B split by table ranking amongst 20 teams. For comparison, NFL gets about US$7B split equally amongst 32 teams.

Last year, 14 of the 30 top earning football clubs were from the EPL. After 2017, it is likely all 20 EPL teams will be in the top 30. Leicester, then, will be able to outspend any European clubs except Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG & Bayern.

[Oldtimer]

We haven't had cable since 1999. Yes the MLS Live blackouts on some games are annoying, but it's extremely easy to bypass them, with no extra charge on top of the MLS Live price itself. I haven't missed a TFC game on MLS Live all season. (BTW I'm in the stadium for almost all home games.)

If you buy MLS Live during the preseason, it's $65 for the season, e.g., approx. $8 for month (spread only over the approx. 8 month season).

I agree the MLS broadcasts could be much better. It's amazing how often they zoom into some player after a play, for no important reason, meanwhile missing an important play elsewhere on the pitch. Also some of the announcers are pretty awful.

MLS Live is well worth the $$$, I've had it for years, what a great streaming service. It's especially worthwhile if you want to watch some of our opponent's games.

[mistercorporate]

MLS Live is well worth the $$$, I've had it for years, what a great streaming service. It's especially worthwhile if you want to watch some of our opponent's games.

And if you know how to get around the blackouts it's a super deal!

Between MLS Live, Netflix and a British TV streaming package (yes, they have American shows on it too), who needs cable! Cheaper and better.

[Kaz]

My only issue with the black outs is the same issue I have with using the streams. I have a minor Compulsion with honesty.. so VPNs and streams are difficult. Which is why I did what I did to get around them.

Sadly I can't get to every game.. lately it has been one or two home games a season. Might get to one in September this year.. might not be till October. I miss living in the GTA and getting to 6 or 7 games a season.

I'm covered for the rest of the year I enjoy watching on the TV again. I had Cable all of last season and picked up legal IPTV again in July so I'm covered. My only issue with IPTV is there seems to be a 10-30second delay in the broadcast so I sometimes will check a stat on the MLS site and find we scored just before it happens.. not a huge deal though.

I like having so many options... just wish it wasn't on SN360. Stupid channel.

[Onyx]

The issue about ratings is that the media has no way of judging interest in any sport apart from TV (and radio) ratings. There has been a jump in TFC media coverage in the last 3 seasons. But will that continue if the TV ratings don't increase?

E.g. How long will Rogers put money into a twice weekly podcast on Fan590, and have a guy spending 1/2 his time on the team (Riccio)?

The demographics of soccer in this city are excellent - supporters are the target market for advertisers. And the fan base is passionate about all the details going on with the team, and devours all media involving TFC. There just isn't enough of people like us, but who don't go to games.

This doesn't affect TFC due to media ownership, but i wonder if TSN is going to renew their MLS deal. We should have heard something by now, I pretty sure the deal expires end of season.