I have my doubts about the validity of those stats considering Kenya is apparently the second most interested country in following Toronto FC, not the US.
I have my doubts about the validity of those stats considering Kenya is apparently the second most interested country in following Toronto FC, not the US.
Do you think MLS would continue in the US as the NHL does as a mostly gate-driven league?Originally Posted by OgtheDim
All this talk of Playoff formats and ratings and not one mention of the playoff using US ratings behemoth - Liga MX.
Unlike the NHL, soccer has a following all over that country. Once there are enough markets covered, TV contracts will go up in value. Atlanta is a big step in that direction, as is Minnesota. Add St. Louis and Michigan to that number and North Carolina and they have a lot of the largest markets.
Gambling/betting on foreign leagues is a thing.
But that doesn't answer my question. I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I'm just wondering. There have been a lot of changes in the entertainment industry and adjustments have been made. One hour dramas, for example, will never get the kind of ratings they once did but there are many more of them made now. It may be that with many more choices only a few blockbuster events get old-time big ratings and most everything else adjusts to lower ratings. That wouldn't really make any difference to us, would it, as long as the league continues?
Gambling/betting on TFC in Nairobi is not a thing.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Nah, its a good question.But that doesn't answer my question
The template is enough markets and the networks can sell it to advertisers. Us cord cutters are not in the majority.
On a side note, a lot of people are talking about and watching 1 hour TV - its just on HBO, Showcase and other channels in the US. Think Game of Thrones, House of Cards, West World, Breaking Bad etc.
Yes, but that's what I mean. Lots of people are talking about those shows but far fewer people are seeing each one than saw an episode of Cagny and Lacy or Dallas. Most episodes of Breaking Bad averaged under 2 million viewers. Before cable a show would get cancelled if it got below 10 million. But that's the difference between 3 channels and 30 (making one hour dramas, I know it's the "five hundred channel universe"
In some ways it's like the music business. It has returned to being a mostly gate-driven business as it was before record sales went crazy from the 50's till the internet. Yes, I know, some people are buying vinyl again but no musicians are making the kind of money from records they did years ago.
All I'm really saying is that TV ratings aren't important at all for MLS. It can stay mostly gate-driven, get very low TV ratings and still be a good league.
Kenyan betting site publishing odds for Toronto FC match:
http://www.red.co.ke/news/betway-bet...-kenya-betting
There are 300 online sports betting websites just in the UK.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
To consider...Yes, but that's what I mean. Lots of people are talking about those shows but far fewer people are seeing each one than saw an episode of Cagny and Lacy or Dallas. Most episodes of Breaking Bad averaged under 2 million viewers. Before cable a show would get cancelled if it got below 10 million. But that's the difference between 3 channels and 30 (making one hour dramas, I know it's the "five hundred channel universe"
In some ways it's like the music business. It has returned to being a mostly gate-driven business as it was before record sales went crazy from the 50's till the internet. Yes, I know, some people are buying vinyl again but no musicians are making the kind of money from records they did years ago.
All I'm really saying is that TV ratings aren't important at all for MLS. It can stay mostly gate-driven, get very low TV ratings and still be a good league.
What would be the state of MLS were it not for huge expansion fees that were driven on the value of owning a share in SUM? Ironic in that SUM revenue is heavily dependent on the ratings and tv contract value for the USMNT and Mexican teams.
There have been soccer specific gate driven leagues in North America before. And they are no more.
How many MLS teams would actually turn a profit if they had to pay the salaries and expenses instead of the league? Were it not for SUM, I don't think the MLS we see today exists.
Remind me again....the Sum dividend per year is how much again?
Things are very different in the TV business than when the other soccer leagues existed so I hope the business model for this one isn't based too much on the past.
$90m less $18m USMNT less ???? USWNT = US$72m *75% = $54m / 20 teams = $2.7m per club
dividend was reported to be 400k in 2013, before the new tv deal.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan.../#4eed4d7a4bb2
sold 25% for $150m = $600 valuation * 75% = 450m / 20 teams = $22.5 value per team
Last edited by Onyx; 11-14-2016 at 10:14 AM.
Ya SUM is the only reason along with expansion fees that MLS is still around come on !
Ya the record expansion fees coinciding with the record ESPN tv deal for USNT/Mexico content rights were purely coincidental.
We won't truly know the value of a MLS team is until expansion is completely off the table. At that point on the open market we will see what it bears.
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
What's the problem somebody unhappy that the MLS is still around a league that most of the soccer haters out there did not think would last past a few years. The MLS was set up the way it was because of the mistakes the old NASl made that led to it's demise. It's a different world in North America now than it was during the old NASl days. The majority of teams actually get decent attendances something the soccer hating media never thought would happen. Does SUM help of course it does but SUM is soccer money here in North America, soccer money the soccer hating media did not believe money could be made in anything to do with soccer back in the day, but money is being made in soccer in North America that helps the major pro soccer league here, it's still soccer in North America that is generating money, it shows that there is money out there to be made in soccer in North America.
^ you should point your soapbox in another direction.
The discussion... in this tv ratings thread... is whether MLS actually needs tv ratings. And the answer is clearly that MLS needs SUM revenue to grow.
Just to be clear, my question is does MLS need to grow? Once expansion is finished, say 32 teams, could the league continue if the TV ratings do not increase?
Hard to say isn't it?
League pays salaries and other expenses centrally.
We could add up payroll costs (minus team paid designated players), estimate other operating expenses and then subtract that from revenue.
If that revenue doesn't include expansion fees and they are still in the black, then we can assume they could stay the same without growth in tv/content ratings.
If the expansion fees are being used for payroll or other expenses, then the timeline to matter through tv revenue is pretty much tied to when the expansion money runs out.
Really hard to say with MLS not being publicly traded. The story is a little like the NHL. Everyone is making lots of money when it's time to buy into the league. But everyone is losing money when it's time to renegotiate a CBA.
Safe bet though is that without expansion money or tv revenue, a gate driven league can only grow as high as ticket prices do. And I don't think there is a big fan base out there willing to pay a lot more for tickets. Assuming that growth is the priority.
Last edited by Pookie; 11-14-2016 at 08:59 PM.
The expansion fee does not got to pay for things like players salaries or any team budget items, it goes to the league investors (some of which do not operator teams). The fee is to compensate the investors for their lost of equity when a new franchise is created. The investors can use that money on anything they want. it's NOT league revenue.
It's pretty pathetic that out biggest game won't be available to those with basic cable. My old man is going to be pissed tomorrow. Red hot Habs who are playing in Montreal get bumped to the secondary channel while the Leafs don't?
TSN is carrying the game on TSN 1&3 and replaying it on TSN 4 after the leaf game.
Unfortunately he only has TSN 4 and looking at the schedule it looks like they are joining in progress after the Leafs game and not doing a replay.
correct. but the problem is most of teams operate at a loss (except Seattle with large gate or RSL model bare bones).
Teams are using the expansion fee windfalls to subsidize these loses. Thus, you are left with a small group of crappy teams with no fans (houston, chicago, dallas, etc) where those teams should be in moved/re-established in stronger markets.
A lot of American NHL teams also operate at a loss and many of these NHL teams should be moved or folded but are not they keep going just saying.
Really eager to see the ratings after this one.
What a night.
Everything that could be right about MLS; 62,000 and loud. Combined with everything wrong; delaying the start because of the measurements on their painted concrete and possibly losing casual viewers who tuned in between 8-8:30.
This one was 1M plus worthy entertainment. Hopefully, they at least break the 600k mark and set a record.
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