I would actually like to see MLS separate into two leagues, like how baseball didn't have interleague play years ago with AL/NL teams not playing each other in the regular season.
You play each team in the league 3 times, have a trophy for each leagues winner, then top 2-3 in each league go into a cup knockout for country wide supremacy.
Of course then you wont get to see some of other leagues stars, in my opinion this is the way it should go with so many teams coming into the league.
I think this would be the best of both worlds, quite unique in the world of football and also not unprecedented because Americans had this type of format for years with baseball.
Last edited by Richard; 07-27-2016 at 04:03 PM.
It should be noted that we only get the important EPL matches on TV because the networks pick and choose what they cover. After about October, a lot of the stuff we don't see is pretty poor and only followed by supporters of specific teams. Especially the midweek stuff.
Case in point - over the last few years some of the big name teams have dropped down to 8th or so for a spell - Chelsea and Man U games got airplay but were pretty boring grim affairs that eventually got shunted for more interesting stuff.
That and I think relegation battles are highly overrated as drama - its like watching two 9 year olds playing road hockey only they can never hit the freaking net so when one does ur flabbergasted.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 07-27-2016 at 04:16 PM.
The idea that a straight-up home-away format is perfectly balanced is overdone. There are always situations arise where you can question a team's motivation and it is also quite anti-climactic at times. Not mortally flawed by any means but I think the small playoff format some leagues have is the best balance.
But this is all personal preference. You can really argue any way you want about the type of format is the best form of competition.
Baseball, even the top teams lose 60 times. What is the winning percentage of the current top teams? I'm not gonna look but probably barely .600. Games aren't that crucial if you can be the best team while losing 40 per cent of the games.
Then there is the playing 160-something times ... play the same team 2/3/4 days in a row, all year long ... reach the playoffs and then all of a sudden it's three out of five to start and your season could be done. Or out in the one-off "wildcard" thing. After playing 160-something times?
(Then there is the OHL .... 16 of 20 make the playoffs? After 60-something cash-grabbing regular season games for each team?)
I don't like playoffs ... rewards the "hottest" team not the "best" team (which is more fairly determined by playing everyone equally and giving first-place team the title). But it's the North American "build drama" way, sadly.
Even soccer over there gets caught up in that at least a little bit. All these two-leg ties in Champions League but then when it comes time for the finals it's a one-off, with a boat load of hype and at a neutral venue. Everyone's got a little WWE in them I guess.
Last edited by GBV; 07-28-2016 at 12:50 AM.
Interesting topic, but I don't really understand the conversation....
All the games matter in the EPL, but not in MLS? How so?
I mean, look at the Eastern Conference:
At least five teams (NYC, NY, TFC, MTL and PHI) are competing for top spot in the East, which sometimes brings a Supporters' Shield.
And I'd argue at least the top six teams in the East are still competing for home field advantage throughout the playoffs.
After that, DC, ORL, NE, TFC, MTL and PHI are competing to at least host the knockout playoff match, which is extremely important.
And no team (OK, maybe Chicago) is eliminated from playoff contention.
Sure, Major League Soccer's regular season isn't as important as, say, NCAA football's, but the East is tight. The games matter.
In the EPL, I'm not sure you can argue teams 7-15 are playing for all that much.
No mans land is 11th or 12th, and that's it. Obviously it depends year by year, but often teams 8, 9 and 10 still have a shot at Europe until the last couple of weeks, and there have been lots of years when 13th place isn't safe until the last 3-4 weeks. There will always be years when there are no races somewhere in the English table (there were 2-3 years in a row a few years back where there top 4 teams were 10 points clear by Xmas), but, overall, it's pretty lively down the stretch there.
Something about MLS playoffs is very off. I can't ever seem to put my finger on it, but they just feel cheap, random, rushed, and illegitimate. There is no sense of occasion, legitimate or otherwise.
What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.
There's truth to that. Depends on the club. When it's a big club, absolutely right (although even big clubs do take it seriously, now that winning Europa can be a back door to CL). Europa is (was until Leicester anyway) something that matters for a smaller club. Leicester may have hurt Europa League in England.
What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.
Hockey is different than MLS, for me. Hockey regular season is kind of a long preseason, sure, but but the hockey playoffs are long, a whole second season. The Stanley Cup winner has earned it.
But soccer playoffs never feel right. It's Portugal winning the Euros having won exactly one game in 90 minutes. Same problem.
What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.
There needs to be a greater importance placed on the Supporters Shield. I actually think winning it is a bigger accomplishment than the MLS Cup.
Sad that NA can't see how special playing other nations other than the US is. Europa is exciting for the fans that get to experience teams outside the norm.
How playing the same teams at the end of a season again to make sure how good you are is dated. It's an NA concept built for cross continental play before the use of commercial flights.
But, hey, it's tradition and what works for the rest of the world doesn't make NA change. Not quickly anyway.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I think it comes down to north american based leagues are geared around winning the championship (stanley cup, super bowl, world series etc) but many soccer fans grew up with the champion being the best team over the length of the season with cups being side or added competitions.
What is the bigger accomplishment Golden State with the best record of all time in a single season or Cleveland winning the title?
Well look at the formats. How many counties in Europe field at least one team with a legit shot of winning champions? Minimum 4 - not hard to stretch that to 6 or 7 in a good year.
Comparatively you are asking north Americas to get excited about a tournament where 2 or 3 countries field comparative teams and the best field 2nd choice squads frequently. The worst? Borderline beer league teams!
Because thats not the bench mark.
The 2 league you posed earlier i think show the least importance on being the best regular season team as it doesn't even guarantee you home advantage throughout (MLB allstar game, NFL neutral site picked years out). At least in MLS, NHL and NBA etc you get some (potential) reward for being the regular season team.
Bigger accomplishment: EPL title or Champions League title? MLS cup or CCL title?
(Ok, maybe another tap or two)
Perhaps "matter" wasn't the right choice of word. Clearly, in the format laid out in which 6 of 10 teams qualify, then the games "matter" for those that are still in the hunt... which by business design is virtually everyone for as long as possible.
"Meaning" would probably be a better choice of word. Playing for something that is hard to win has value.
You note competition for top spot as something of value for MLS teams and fans. Sure, home field is the prize... which for franchise operators means revenue. And the Supporter's Shield is a nice photo op for marketing but from a competition standpoint, winning the league doesn't mean very much in the eyes of MLS. The top teams in each conference last year didn't make the final game. Didn't the year before either. Didn't the year before that... and I stopped looking but I'm willing to bet there's a trend there.
North American leagues are generally designed to be close as long as possible. Worst example is the NHL in which points are given for losing games as long as you get to overtime. Results in teams playing not to lose for 60 minutes in stifling defensive efforts that have me reaching for the remote to see who's in the MasterChef Pressure Test this week. MLS at least doesn't have a gimmick point system but instead their gimmick is the playoffs.
Playing for something that has value.
Close your eyes for a minute and imagine last year's EPL run. Now imagine that Leicester City wins the "Supporters" Shield. Now imagine that they have to go into the Playoffs now and play Man United and get knocked out. United then takes on Man City (who knocked out the other top seed) for a winner take all Championship and they win.
Who is the better club? Who had a better season?
The answer to that... from a soccer/football fan perspective.... tells you all that you need to know about the value we (some of us) see in MLS Playoffs.
Agree.
Just note that the baseball example with a .600 win percentage needs a little qualification. The games are played until someone wins, no ties. Leicester City had a .605 win percentage... meaning they too didn't win approx 40% of their games. Of course, if those draws had of played out they may have won more.
In some markets, attendance for MLS playoff games actually drops from regular season totals. MLS has to decide if it needs to appeal to the North American fan or if it needs to appeal to the Soccer fan in North America that currently turns their collective noses up at the "quality" they perceive in MLS.
Capture the fan that doesn't know the game but can appreciate and understand the format or capture the the fan that knows and loves the game but doesn't (currently) see it as a top flight league. I'd argue the latter would be easier and probably net them the market growth they are looking for.
To do that, getting rid of gimmicks like the playoffs would be critical IMO.
In the NBA this year you had *maybe* four teams of any consequence. Everyone else was just making up the numbers. I really don't think clearing the bar against a lot of mediocre teams frequently makes you a more worthy champion than winning multiple head-to-heads against the best.
You could argue the finals was unfair given all the good teams (except 1) were in the same conference but that's about playoff bracketing, not the regular season.
I won't be looking back at the Patriots and saying they were the rightful champion the year they lost only one game in the Super Bowl. When it mattered they couldn't finish the job.
The issue with MLS is the playoffs are too long. Who is still watching this shit by the time Black Friday is still around the corner? They need to take a page out of the NFL's book and tighten up the schedule.
Last edited by ag futbol; 07-28-2016 at 09:16 AM.
I just read that as "Insular fans".
It's just how i see the difference. NA fans DO have a tendency to look at anything unknown as unproven instead of something different and of interest. I'm trying to personally get over the reverse - I'm actually visiting all these NA cities I couldn't be bothered to before because they were the same old boring American cities in every sports league. I don't have to get over anything to be drawn to an away match in the CCL. That would be an experience. This game has to be more (to me) than the breakdown of talent on the tv.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I find the Europa Cup is a similar level of play to the top MLS clubs, entertaining but with a couple journey men who make the occasional sloppy play. That being said, the main attraction is all those exotic countries with their representative teams, the ambience, strong and loud supporters groups, good camera coverage and lovely full stadiums.
That sounds like tourism not sport to me.
And really, are you going to say with a straight face that nobody in Europe has ever complained about playing minnow teams in early rounds? The inclusion of countries that stretch the boundaries of the continent? That the Euro is a more pure competition than the World Cup? They have their own inward looking preferences too at times.
Easy to label NA as "insular" when each country is much larger than the equivalent in Europe. If we were to Re-draw those lines overseas or chop up what we have here the conclusions would be much different.
Last edited by ag futbol; 07-28-2016 at 09:52 AM.
And I think that version of sport without live experience is less passionate. To each his own.
Insular thought isn't only in NA. It's what I experience the most. I'm also not saying Europe wouldn't be prone to it if the lines were comparable. I'm saying whoever is prone to it can rise above insular POV's.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
The thing about the NA playoff structure is that is where leagues pick up the casual fan on TV who doesn't want to invest in a full season of following a league. If they like what they see, then they might join the regular fans that watch games during the season. And if they like that, they may eventually pay to come to those games. And if they really like that, they'll eventually join the supporters section. And if they get caught up in that, they become hardcore ultras.