Originally Posted by Mateo1985
Well obviously it will be a Miami Vice couch...
Well obviously it will be a Miami Vice couch...
Cheyrou can't cover enough ground in a middle two, let alone a diamond, where he's supposed to be mobile enough to cut off passing lanes as well as breakup play. He's a backup at this point. He's a fine player but he just doesn't cover ground. Johnson has an engine.
I wouldn't be surprised to see us play in a 4-2-4 (wide diamond), with inverted wingers and Bradley next to Johnson in the middle. They'll play Bradley as the man going forward, Johnson going back. I'm basing that on Vanney saying to ExtraTime he wants more defined roles in the midfield and that he has discussed a specific role at length with Bradley. Osorio would play one wing, and the Japanese kid would platoon with Lovitz at the other. Cheyrou would be Bradley's backup, and Collin Warner would backup Johnson.
Don't you think the anchor in a diamond would have a lot less running to do, especially if the midfield and even the forwards were instructed to do even more running to compensate?
You can't play a wide diamond in modern football. gives up way too much space in the middle of the park.
In all honesty, Bradley is probably best suited to play the DM role compared to anyone else on the roster, but his overall skillset would be wasted if he didn't have the freedom to move forward. We really need to address that postition in order to cement our starting lineup.
The anchor in a wide diamond is effectively sweeping in front of the back line, trying to break up passing lanes and prevent overloads. But to coverpassing lanes, ala Alonso or Laba, you have to have really good side-to-side coverage, which means speed.
If you stick Cheyrou in that role he would be ineffectual.
I don't believe there's no formation you "can't play", short of a 2-3-5. They all require people to cover space. If you allow them the outside and clog the middle, a quality team switches approach ala Columbus.
But there's been other players and other systems that have been effective in covering for a player with Cheyrou's type of skill set and limitations. the one everyone keeps bringing up is pirlo's last few years at Juve, but even closer to home there's Kreis's RSL teams. Beckerman was never very fast at all and even at 33 he continues to chug away at that position. Cheyrou would be playing an extreme version of Beckerman's role granted, but the guys in front of him are significantly better and more capable of an increased workload to compensate for Cheyrou's lack of mobility.
Gerrard at Liverpool is another recent example. Then you have guys like Busquets, Alonso, Pirlo, and Beckham who have played as the first midfielder, though they weren't in a diamond. Still, they're all slow players who rely much more on reading the game. Cheyrou is in the same mould. Him in a two man midfield would be much more ineffectual (less effectual?).
People are getting too caught up in the numbers when looking at a formation e.g. 4-1-2-1-2 (diamond) vs. 4-2-3-1. Sure in the latter Cheyrou has a partner beside him whereas in the former he's alone but the fact is he's closer to the defense in the diamond and has more insulation ahead of him.
I like this, mainly because I think that Osario is best used as an AM. I would like an upgrade for the DM, I like Cheyrou, but someone younger and more physical/defensive would be good, to cover the back four.
A few notes:
1) I think we need to give Oso a run of games at no. 10. Let me do what he does well, pass and combine with the front two and link midfield to forward. Hopefully he can sort out his finishing as well.
2) I think Bradley can do more as a shuttler not as 10. He can drive forward from deep, maybe drill some 60 yard balls to the front two. I'd also see him drop deep to combine with Cheyrou.
3) Johnson is familiar with the diamond after his time with RSL. I can see him being a much more north/south player but still able to cover a lot of ground.
4) Both Johnson and Bradley will have to do the heavy running for Cheyrou, but unlike last year, they'll be more tactically aware than others that were put there (Creavalle, Warner).
5) I see Beitashour getting forward the most as a FB. Morrow being a little more stay-at-home.
6) Width would come from Giovinco (peeling out to the left as he does), and Beitashour overlapping on the right.
cheyrou is surrounded by athletisism , i think he will be okay. he is flanked by work horses and with good strong CBs behind him
We all dream of a team of sebbie g's
I am almost certain that Vanney will stick with the 4-4-2 Diamond. What I am curious to see is how the plan on utilizing Altidore. They need to take advantage of his size and have him become more of an aerial threat inside the box rather than relying on him to try and create from open play. He simply does not have the same vision and skill set as other when it comes to moving up field.
4-4-1-1
Bradley and Johnson in the middle pulley.
Seba behind Jozy.
Itll be more like a 2-1-5-2 in the attack, with Oso and Delgado tucking in with Beita and Morrow on the wings.
And a 4-2-2-2 when defending, with both MB4 and Johnson playing DM.
Last edited by Ivy; 01-28-2016 at 03:10 AM.
4-4-1-1 would my choice. I think we need to keep our formation very easy to follow initially due to new personnel settling in, and I honestly don't think we need to go too complicated. I know there are plenty of teams who are successful and employ all these very tactical astute formations, but then I look a team like Leceister who employ a simple 4-4-2, but where everyone knows there role and plays it perfectly. A lot rests on Bradley, he needs to be a lot more tactically disciplined this season, and I believe Vanney has already stated his role will be a lot more defined this season. His runs need to be more purposeful and not just for the sake of running.
Article on Mannella and Chapman has a little tidbit about Chapman moving out wide:
He'll be competing mainly with Lovitz as a depth wide player I imagine.Chapman, who made nine appearances for TFC II in 2015, is learning a new role on the outside of midfield. Also a former PDL standout for K-W United FC, Chapman is looking to Columbus Crew SC midfielder Justin Meram and Paris Saint-Germain’s Javier Pastore as examples to follow, with both of those players having made the transition to the wing after starting their careers in more central roles.
I think wide midfield is a good spot for him. I've mentioned before that I think he needs a more basic and defined role to be useful. I don't think he has the field awareness to play centrally. When he played there last year, he kept trying to occupy the same space as other players rather than say dropping back to find some space
I'm stuck at work overnight and bored so I feel like rambling about how we might play.
So we're playing a 4-3-3 unless Vanney suddenly changes his mind again half way through preseason. Looking at the past couple of lineups, there's still a lot of questions about the depth chart particularly up front and who we sign in the next couple of weeks. One big observation is that Oso will have to be moved to the bench. Bradley, Johnson and Cheyrou will make up the starting midfield with Oso, Delgado and Warner as backup.
It looks like they're experimenting with Seba out wide on the left and through the middle. Seba through the middle plays as a false 9, dropping much deeper to create. There is then some interchange with the no. 10 (I assume being Delgado) to take up the space vacated based on the screenshot below.
Both of the two screenshots show Vanney wanting Endoh to create width based on positioning pretty much on the touchline. If Babouli plays, he will primarily operate inside, and will allow space for the fullback to overlap.
Seba operating out wide will allow Altidore to operate in his natural position as a no. 9. The front three depth chart is still up in the air I think. Chapman is being converted to a winger but who starts out wide on the right against the Red Bulls? Endoh is straight of college and Gomez has been played primarily based as a no. 9. Most likely this will be answered in Florida.
Last edited by PopePouri; 02-07-2016 at 06:32 AM.
I bet they switch back to a 4-4-2 diamond when they get to Florida. We just might have seen the formation Vanney plans to use when TFC needs to play while the Copa, Euros and WC qualifiers are on.
I don't know man, Vanney has talked about his preference for the 4-3-3 since he came - he's just quite the pragmatist.
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