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    Unhappy No Streetcars to Exhibition for 2016

    http://stevemunro.ca/2015/12/04/ttc-...anuary-3-2016/

    Due to construction at the Go Station at the Ex, the streetcar loop into the Ex will be closed all season, except for during the Ex.

    Streetcars will be turning back at the Fleet Loop, with shuttle buses from there going into the grounds.

    So anybody wanting to go to Bathurst or Union will either be walking to Fleet or waiting for a bunch of buses (and don't be surprised if the TTC doesn't lay on enough shuttle buses for that bit to handle the flow after games)


    Well, at least we got one year of being able to take 2 streetcars straight to games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    http://stevemunro.ca/2015/12/04/ttc-...anuary-3-2016/

    Due to construction at the Go Station at the Ex, the streetcar loop into the Ex will be closed all season, except for during the Ex.

    Streetcars will be turning back at the Fleet Loop, with shuttle buses from there going into the grounds.

    So anybody wanting to go to Bathurst or Union will either be walking to Fleet or waiting for a bunch of buses (and don't be surprised if the TTC doesn't lay on enough shuttle buses for that bit to handle the flow after games)


    Well, at least we got one year of being able to take 2 streetcars straight to games.
    Should we start a bike group? Red Pedal Boys? We can talk to FO and make sure they have enough racks for parking and start a cycling revolution!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Should we start a bike group? Red Pedal Boys? We can talk to FO and make sure they have enough racks for parking and start a cycling revolution!
    No joke, if we could somehow convince them to put in more bike racks, it would be a huge & easy help. For lots of people within Toronto like me, bike is the easiest way to get to & from the games -- by far. You see us trying to lock the bikes all over the place at BMO: gates, trees, light posts, construction fences etc. I just bought a new bike after my old one got stolen. No way I can continue locking it up as badly at TFC games as I did with my old one.

    If more of us could take a bike & safely lock up, it would free up more capacity for people less mobile, or from farther away, who need to drive or take transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    No joke, if we could somehow convince them to put in more bike racks, it would be a huge & easy help. For lots of people within Toronto like me, bike is the easiest way to get to & from the games -- by far. You see us trying to lock the bikes all over the place at BMO: gates, trees, light posts, construction fences etc. I just bought a new bike after my old one got stolen. No way I can continue locking it up as badly at TFC games as I did with my old one.

    If more of us could take a bike & safely lock up, it would free up more capacity for people less mobile, or from farther away, who need to drive or take transit.

    I've had to lock my bike up to the gate along the south end. More racks would be nice, but I think that's a city thing. no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Should we start a bike group? Red Pedal Boys? We can talk to FO and make sure they have enough racks for parking and start a cycling revolution!
    Pretty crappy about the streetcars. Always gotta keep the 'hassle quota' up.

    Red Pedal Boys? amazing. Surprised you haven't started that already

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I've had to lock my bike up to the gate along the south end. More racks would be nice, but I think that's a city thing. no?
    Normally you can get the City to put in the post & ring things wherever you ask on city sidewalks. However this is within the Ex and not normal public city land, would have to be a special arrangement. Plus larger racks are usually installed by property owners. I'm sure something is doable if somebody made it a priority, specially as part of the current stadium reno/upgrade. There's tons of dead space around BMO where this could be done w/o a hassle to anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Normally you can get the City to put in the post & ring things wherever you ask on city sidewalks. However this is within the Ex and not normal public city land, would have to be a special arrangement. Plus larger racks are usually installed by property owners. I'm sure something is doable if somebody made it a priority, specially as part of the current stadium reno/upgrade. There's tons of dead space around BMO where this could be done w/o a hassle to anyone.

    During and after construction this past season there was a shortage. Mid season there were only the rings and rack at the GO station but by August they had the racks back in the South. I don't take issue with the amount of spots as much as the racks needed to be drilled into the ground. Remind me after the first home game and I'll make the phone call to whomever to make sure we are taken care of on our self powered 2 wheels. If it isn't taken care of already.
    WCQ Canada vs Honduras Fri., Sep. 2nd
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisFizik View Post
    Pretty crappy about the streetcars. Always gotta keep the 'hassle quota' up.
    Yeah, that sucks. One alternative is the Ossington bus from Liberty/Atlantic to Ossington station. It's faster than the Bathurst streetcar to Bathurst station - but it can't handle the same number of people. But after a decade, few seem to take it, and it remains the best kept secret on how to take TTC away from BMO Field after a game.

    Also, it's not that bad of a walk to the King streetcar at King/Atlantic (certainly faster than walking to Fleet loop!). There's the Dufferin bus. And sometime next year, with any luck they'll add the new 514 streetcar from Dufferin Loop, that runs along King to Cherry Loop.

    Personally, I'll be taking GO. Shame with the streetcar missing, they don't offer free GO rides with a TTC transfer, between Union and Exhibition.

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    UBER FC anyone?

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    MotherF#%^@#s , not again. In season 8 the shuttle buses were torture. I got off and walked most of the time.


    Red Through and Through

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    I would imagine the best alternatives are the king street car to shoeless or taking transit to union and hoping on the lakeshore west like

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    all the more reason for subways, subways, subways.

    or smart track, that would actually fix this problem

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    This city/Province never cease to amaze me.

    Now, there is a proposed tax on HOV lanes… for the privilege of driving on roads already paid for with tax dollars and with gasoline taxes… and I'm supposed to be able to take transit… which isn't available… as an alternative.

    Fun.

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    Re HOV lanes, oh c'mon. It's not a tax. Nobody is forced to pay it. If you wish to pay extra for the opportunity of utilizing the HOV / HOT lanes, that is totally up to you. If you want to pay it, knock yourself out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Now, there is a proposed tax on HOV lanes… for the privilege of driving on roads already paid for with tax dollars and with gasoline taxes… and I'm supposed to be able to take transit… which isn't available… as an alternative.
    There's still replacement buses; and it a short walk from Fleet Loop to Princess Gates. And there's buses to Dufferin loop (and even streetcars, when the 514 service starts). And it's a short walk to the Ossington bus, or even the King streetcar. And there's also a GO Train that takes only 6-7 minutes to Union.

    I'll be there frequently next season and I've only driven once in 10 years.

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    I broke another spoke on the weekend. It cost me almost $2 to replace.

    (We're talking about transportation woes, right?)
    WCQ Canada vs Honduras Fri., Sep. 2nd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard View Post
    Re HOV lanes, oh c'mon. It's not a tax. Nobody is forced to pay it. If you wish to pay extra for the opportunity of utilizing the HOV / HOT lanes, that is totally up to you. If you want to pay it, knock yourself out.
    It's a lane on the road that we already paid for by taxes and ongoing gas and other taxes that is being singled out and charged a premium to drive in it. Yes, it's a cash grab that will have no impact on traffic flow.

    And it's an ill advised cash grab in that the toll will be self reported so I guess we will devote policing resources to this. Good use of their time there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    It's a lane on the road that we already paid for by taxes and ongoing gas and other taxes that is being singled out and charged a premium to drive in it. Yes, it's a cash grab that will have no impact on traffic flow.

    And it's an ill advised cash grab in that the toll will be self reported so I guess we will devote policing resources to this. Good use of their time there.
    It may or it may not have an effect on traffic flow, that remains to be seen which is why there is a trail run on one short stretch of highway.

    Call it a cash grab if you like but it's optional. It's not a tax as was previously implied. You only pay it if you choose to!

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    ^ think about it from the perspective of carpooling.

    If the HOV lane is meant to encourage carpoolers, what is the impact of a toll on the HOV lane for those already carpooling?

    if I take 2-3 people to work already and use existing HOV lanes where available right now, why should Inpay a premium to drive the same lane? Most likely, I am going to say screw it and drive the non toll lane and force congestion into that.

    Ive got my UK Osyter card. I've toured England without renting a car or taking a black cab thanks to the BritRail pass. A well connected transit system is awesome. But we don't have one here. The perception that drivers are gas guzzling, SUV drivers burning money and not caring about the environment is just wrong.

    Quite a lot of people live in bedroom communities to be able to afford a mortgage and have no convenient transit option. Eg. To get from a place like Barrie to Mississauga is an hour by car or 3.5 hrs by TTC. To throw a tax on a single lane within a public highway, that is already set up to reward carpoolers, and then require policing resources to be devoted to it is just ridiculous IMO.

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    Do we really want to get into discussing general transportation policy here?

    The HOT lanes will still be free for carpoolers. Why should there be extra policing requirements for HOT lanes compared with regular HOV lanes? In any case, it might be interesting to hear about the implementation details before passing judgement on them.

    Single-occupant vehicles will have a choice to pay extra to use the HOT lanes. Generally, they would be priced so the traffic in that lane will remain free-flowing, to avoid discouraging HOV'ers (who can still travel for free, as mentioned).

    Unlike many of the temporary PanAm HOV lanes, HOV and HOT lanes in Ontario are generally not converted general traffic lanes, they are additional lanes. Therefore it's hard to say "they've already been paid for by tax dollars." And existing commuters won't really be disadvantaged by them as a result.

    HOT lanes have a ton of research behind them, and are in place in many jurisdictions. There is lots to read about if one is interested. Plus if we don't raise funds, how will we ever improve transit significantly? Anyway, the GTA has started with the largest transit expansion in at least a generation. The GO Transit train improvements that are planned are good examples. It's only a start, but at least it's that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Do we really want to get into discussing general transportation policy here?

    The HOT lanes will still be free for carpoolers. Why should there be extra policing requirements for HOT lanes compared with regular HOV lanes? In any case, it might be interesting to hear about the implementation details before passing judgement on them.
    True. And in an ideal world, I do agree. And yes, driving in that lane will be a choice… for now.

    You are right. Under the proposed, existing carpoolers, wouldn't pay. Single vehicle users would.

    I've taken the step to assume that will be thrown out the window once revenues start rolling in. Maybe it will always be free for carpoolers but this report that predated the announcement has my eyebrow permanently raised… really uncomfortable actually:

    “What will be needed is some form of road pricing and parking charges that apply to all vehicles,” says the report.
    Some studies have suggested that the Toronto region alone could raise between $700 million and $1.5 billion annually through road and parking levies.



    http://www.thestar.com/news/investig...s-ontario.html

    Assume though that they don't act on that recommendation. Here's were idealism and reality clash.

    Let's say I am a single occupant driver most times. I decide to buy a pass for the HOT/V lane. They give me some kind of transponder. Works through the week.

    But it's after school and with kids' sports, I've got the full family. Fully qualified to use the HOT/V lane for free. Do I shut off my transponder? Switch the dial to number of passengers…. as I believe I heard discussed on AM1010…. while commuting… when the concept was introduced.

    What if during the week, I am asked to drive a colleague to work… or to a meeting off site? Same thing? How do I avoid being charged for something that I can legitimately use for free?

    If this is going to rely on the honour system, I can assure you that the province will ask police to step in and enforce this.

    At the end of the day, the challenge I have with it is this. Gridlock exists. And there is a thought process out there that commuters are the scourge of the earth. Yet these cities and bureaucracies are building communities in areas where transit cannot support them or at least have no plan to have transit available when the people show up.

    Problem with the Gardiner? I'm sure the Condos will help. Don't like people commuting on the 401? Let's throw up that new affordable subdivision outside of Milton. Gridlock is a function of lack of planning and an immediate eye on revenues associated with urban expansion.

    Suggesting that the HOT lane will ease congestion is, IMO, a false direction. The number of cars will be the same. If you don't carpool now, you aren't going to. If you live in Milton now, you aren't going to sell your 4 bedroom home and move the family into a 2 bedroom condo nearer your work. It may help to shuffle the deck chairs a little or even add a lane for a few KMs but in the end, the environmental impact is still the same.

    Remote offices. Flex work hours. Flex work weeks. Transit. Hybrid cars… though that only helps the environment not the cash grab. Those are environmental options and congestion options.

    Taxing developers to pay for road improvements in the areas in which they are clear cutting trees… that's an option. I mean if we are going to pay for an extra lane for a few KMs out of public funds and then charge the public to drive on them (by choice for now), why not have the developers contribute to that?

    But since developers are wealthy, I'm sure you can see where that one may end up.

    HOT lanes have a ton of research behind them, and are in place in many jurisdictions. There is lots to read about if one is interested. Plus if we don't raise funds, how will we ever improve transit significantly? Anyway, the GTA has started with the largest transit expansion in at least a generation. The GO Transit train improvements that are planned are good examples. It's only a start, but at least it's that.


    The GTA's expansion of transit is well behind the population trends, particularly as more bedroom communities expand. I used Barrie as an example, that City has gone from 30,000 to now approaching 180,000 in and around the area.

    Again, if I could hop on a train and head home for the night and have my work done by the time I arrive in the door, I'd buy a transit pass tomorrow. I can't. It isn't an option.


    Your point about improving transit is an interesting one. Do you REALLY feel that the revenue gained here would be set aside and reinvested 100% in public transit?





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    Since these will also be regular HOV lanes for people w/o a HOT transponder, the policing requirements won't change.

    I agree we're decades behind on transit expansion. Finally a bit has been happening in the last few years. It needs to be much more.

    I agree with many of your suggestions. But for every proposed planning change, or financing proposal, and even for many proposed transit improvements, there are howls of protest. It's a matter of all of us voting, paying attention between elections, getting developer money out of the suburban elections, and trying to resist some of our own & our neighbours' knee-jerk NIMBY reactions (for example, when a suburban municipality tries to implement slightly more enlightened planning proposals). And and and...

    I'm not sure what your problem with the downtown condos is. One of the largest increases in commuting patterns in the past decades has been people walking or taking short transit trips to work (and a little bit of biking), within downtown Toronto. That's a great development. At least all those condos didn't turn into cheap starter homes using up tons more land & road space in the middle of nowhere. Of course they didn't improve transit enough at the same time -- e.g., along the King St. corridor. Another related problem is: reverse commutes out of downtown. For example for a couple, one walks & works downtown, while the other drives from their downtown condo to a suburban workplace. The reverse commute used to be clear sailing; now it's jam packed. The GO Transit improvements which have finally started will help (all-day bi-directional service; should have happened 20 years ago). There also needs to be planning controls on the suburban workplaces so that transit is viable. That's tough to accept for the industry, but baby steps are taking place in that direction in some municipalities. And for some companies/industries, there has been a trend back to more accessible workplaces in the last 10 years or so.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 12-13-2015 at 09:49 AM.

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    I never quite understood why City of Toronto council is always opposed to road tolls into the city for non-residents. If city roads are paid for by city residents, then why shouldn't a non-resident user be charged to use it? If it makes everyone feel better, have it go both ways. Non-Toronto residents driving into say Brampton, can pay a toll as well. If the money is too much, it will eventually lead to a trend of people moving closer to their jobs if it's outside the city or accept that the toll is worth paying in exchange to living in a more spacious, and cheaper home outside the city.

    The problem however, is that we have a horrible transit system. And politicians cherry pick examples from other similar cities. So for example, my suggestion wouldn't be much different than what is in London. But London's underground and overground train system is world class (well minus the lack of ventilation, and comfort but I digress).

    So Toronto council looks at how tolls into cities exist in cities like London but leave out the convenient fact that they have a great transit system. Similar to how Metrolinx justifies the UP Express ticket costs with that of London Heathrow Express, but somehow forgetting to mention that regular commuters in London can just take the tube instead, whereas we still need to take an express bus. Or how Montreal orders new buses and subways without air conditioning but leaves out comparisons to Toronto, a city with similar culture, population, and climate in its assessment as to why AC won't work in Montreal.

    It basically comes down to our politicians always appearing stupid- but in reality just finding facts/stats that justifies their decisions, while leaving out those that would contradict them.
    Last edited by PAOK17; 12-13-2015 at 01:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    No joke, if we could somehow convince them to put in more bike racks, it would be a huge & easy help. For lots of people within Toronto like me, bike is the easiest way to get to & from the games -- by far. You see us trying to lock the bikes all over the place at BMO: gates, trees, light posts, construction fences etc. I just bought a new bike after my old one got stolen. No way I can continue locking it up as badly at TFC games as I did with my old one.

    If more of us could take a bike & safely lock up, it would free up more capacity for people less mobile, or from farther away, who need to drive or take transit.
    Good idea. I would like MLSE to erect a fenced-in secure bike station, within the stadium. Would they remove a consession or two to make rhis happen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    Good idea. I would like MLSE to erect a fenced-in secure bike station, within the stadium. Would they remove a consession or two to make rhis happen?
    Well that's possible. But even easier, there's lots of unused land, around the Food Building & elsewhere, that would be good for a bunch of bike racks or ring & posts. I'm not asking for much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    Good idea. I would like MLSE to erect a fenced-in secure bike station, within the stadium. Would they remove a consession or two to make rhis happen?
    What are you riding to the match? A gold plated Pinarello?

    When they finally put the bike racks back in last end-of-summer they were never full 10 mins from kickoff. I check even if I park around Joe's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    What are you riding to the match? A gold plated Pinarello?

    When they finally put the bike racks back in last end-of-summer they were never full 10 mins from kickoff. I check even if I park around Joe's.
    No, but i do ride an $2k road bike often from Mississauga to Toronto, would love to lock it up securely for game day. A bike station like at city hall mississauga or like the one in Toronot would really be beneficial

    Pan am games had a sort of bike Valet / parking service at some of the locations. That was service!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    What are you riding to the match? A gold plated Pinarello?

    When they finally put the bike racks back in last end-of-summer they were never full 10 mins from kickoff. I check even if I park around Joe's.
    The stadium is too far for most people to ride their beaters, and only a dimwit would risk locking an expensive bike around that place, at any time. The few times I did that, I spent more time checking my bike, than watching the game....but alas, back in the early days, that was often the most exciting part of the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    No, but i do ride an $2k road bike often from Mississauga to Toronto, would love to lock it up securely for game day. A bike station like at city hall mississauga or like the one in Toronot would really be beneficial

    Pan am games had a sort of bike Valet / parking service at some of the locations. That was service!!
    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    The stadium is too far for most people to ride their beaters, and only a dimwit would risk locking an expensive bike around that place, at any time. The few times I did that, I spent more time checking my bike, than watching the game....but alas, back in the early days, that was often the most exciting part of the game.
    I've never had an issue with either of my bikes. I don't lock up my road bike though, either. Not that owning and locking up a beater is foolproof. People steal or just damage what they feel like.

    I'm impressed if you're biking from Miss. directly to the match. I usually go home to pick my cruiser up after my rides before heading down to the stadium.

    It's all perspective. What's too far or too expensive. I just find my comfort level between distance and my bike value.

    That's not even taking into what I'd consider the most important part - quality of time. Riding my bike avoids dependency on all the frustration above (in the thread). I know not everyone can do it but more people can that are doing it right now. I hope they can try it more often. It's pretty liberating.
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