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  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoccMan2 View Post
    I think that yes there would not be a second deck on the east side if no Argos, Grey Cup and Winter Classic, but the second deck was not needed anyways , they were having problems filling the stands before the second deck on the east side was built. the stadium is too big now for TFC. I think that you would have seen roofs over all four stands eventually even without the new events and Argos. If someone had asked me to choose between no major renovations and no Argos and other events I would chosen no renovations, because as we have seen a lot of compromises have been made with the way the stadium has been renovated to accommodate the new tenants and the new events. I would not have such a big problem with the Argos coming in if the CFL field had the same end zones as the NFL, however because of the massive CFL end zones we have the elimination of the north stand and still don't really know what the final product of the south will look like. Moreover, we are also getting the type of stadium they are creating so that they can leave room for temporary stands for the big events like the Grey Cup and Winter Classics. BMO will look nice and intimate when they host the Grey Cups and Winter Classics when they put in the temporary stands to fill the open spaces, but what about 98 percent of the time those temporary stands are not there, well you will get big open spaces just like you see at that other new Canadian stadium down the QEW in Hamilton THF, because again it was built so open so they can add temporary stands for the Grey Cup and whatever other big events that stadium might hold. I was at Tim Hortons Field this past summer and kept shaking my head in disbelieve that in this day and age that's the best design they could build, incredible. However, I now realize Tim Hortons Field was built the way it was and with no end zones stands so that they could put in those temporary stands once every what 6 years when they host a Grey Cup, but for the majority of time you get this two sided stadium that has no intimacy at all just two big grandstands.
    The difference with THF is it was built with taxpayers money for the Hamilton community and their relatively well supported Ti-Cats. Whereas BMO is taxpayer + MLSE money for primarily the national soccer stadium and TFC. Argos come in as source of secondary revenue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mowe View Post
    There's no way MLSE would've significantly renovated this stadium if the Winter Classic could've been played somewhere else. It would've made no sense to drop $100 million just for TFC. We likely would've been stuck with what we had last year with minor structural repairs as needed.

    Yeah this stadium is far from ideal. It sucks that the north stand is gone, sucks that the Argos are gonna play here, and the capacity is about 5000 too high. But after it's done I think we're gonna have a unique stadium better than a lot of others in MLS.
    very true, I hate the Argos playing at BMO field, I prey the Argos won't ruin our grass, and the North Stand would of been good to keep. Overall tho, it will be an impressive stadium when done, one of the best in MLS for sure, you can already see it. It looks more like some older England stadium then any other stadium in MLS (minus maybe the North Stand), and it will have character, and the roofs already look more like roofs at Upton Park or Villa park then any other teams in MLS.
    Last edited by james; 12-30-2015 at 02:48 AM.

  3. #513
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    I don't know how anybody could go to a game last season and not see Phase I as an improvement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I don't know how anybody could go to a game last season and not see Phase I as an improvement.
    I dunno, I went to most home games last season. I guess the score board was better. Other than that, not sure. I thought all the empty seats due to the excessive expansion & overpriced new east-side seats, looked pretty lame in the stands and on TV. (I would rather have the view of downtown back, for before & after games and during the breaks.) I sit on the west side, and the major problems over there were not touched: water drainage problems in the concourse; unheated washrooms with mostly cold water; pipes not insulated against frost damage; etc. I haven't received any confirmation, but as far as I can tell, those problems won't be fixed this year either. (The new "canopy" is too high over the west stands, and doesn't extend far enough west, to help much with the water problems on the concourse, especially considering prevailing west winds, although it may help a bit.)

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I don't know how anybody could go to a game last season and not see Phase I as an improvement.
    Do you mean aesthetically? Because there were so many empty seats and the stadium was out of proportion.

    But everyone should be clear on this years improvements being a gravestone for a SSS.

    Otherwise, yes, new things are shiny and a majority of customers watched games more comfortably. And good for them.

    I guess the update video was...nice. Not that it helped in the way of relocation or surface concerns but hey, this is just a construction thread so

    I guess we wait for the pics of the roof going up and on?
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    In terms of expanding seating , was there a way of adding more seats to 30 000 without building that massive upper deck on the east side? I sat up there a few times and you are very high up, the lower seats up there are higher the some of the higher seats in the upper deck on the west side, never mind how high up you are in the higher level seats on east side upper deck, just so far away from the field and action . I realize that some of the best stadiums in the world have seating like that where you are way up there, however, I have no problem with say a 60 000 seat stadium have a nose bleed upper stands , but we are talking about a much bigger stadium, so where else are you going to put the seats. However, I do have a problem with a stadium of barely 30 000 seats having to have a upper stand so high up, no need for it, fill in the damn open spaces you have at BMO and voila you could have easily have gotten to 30 000, instead of building that monster in the sky, you would have had a nicer more enclosed stadium with hardly any open areas, and you would have had seats closer to the action, but it seems architects in Canada only seem to know how to design the classic two big grandstand old CFL inspired stadiums that were built back in the day, see the old stadiums in Calgary, Regina, Hamilton and so on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Do you mean aesthetically? Because there were so many empty seats and the stadium was out of proportion.

    But everyone should be clear on this years improvements being a gravestone for a SSS.

    Otherwise, yes, new things are shiny and a majority of customers watched games more comfortably. And good for them.

    I guess the update video was...nice. Not that it helped in the way of relocation or surface concerns but hey, this is just a construction thread so

    I guess we wait for the pics of the roof going up and on?

    i wonder what the SSH count will be this year. you really don't need to be a SSH anymore to see the top games especially if you sat on east side. just buy single game nose bleed and walk down to lower deck.
    Last edited by Onyx; 01-01-2016 at 10:50 PM.

  8. #518
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    People are seeing Phase 1 as a detriment and that's what I don't get.

    Better amenities on the East (I sit on the West too and yes it has issues and they better fix that in the next few years). The concourse level on the south was a place a lot of people walked around (except when it was pelting rain). Another gate on the South West.

    And, yes, I miss the view but there were games where we had more then 21K and needed that section.


    Most importantly, the sound out of the south was louder. It wasn't just more energized and the centralised groups. The sound was funnelled differently.

    Could more be done? Sure.


    I like our stadium.

    It seems others don't. But, to say that last year made it worse...that I don't get.

  9. #519
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    It is our home simple as that, for the most part anyone among us loves to be there to live and die with the Reds.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoccMan2 View Post
    but it seems architects in Canada only seem to know how to design the classic two big grandstand old CFL inspired stadiums that were built back in the day, see the old stadiums in Calgary, Regina, Hamilton and so on.
    Because sideline seats are better for watching CFL games - endzone seats for the most part are terrible

  11. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    People are seeing Phase 1 as a detriment and that's what I don't get.

    Better amenities on the East (I sit on the West too and yes it has issues and they better fix that in the next few years). The concourse level on the south was a place a lot of people walked around (except when it was pelting rain). Another gate on the South West.

    And, yes, I miss the view but there were games where we had more then 21K and needed that section.


    Most importantly, the sound out of the south was louder. It wasn't just more energized and the centralised groups. The sound was funnelled differently.

    Could more be done? Sure.


    I like our stadium.

    It seems others don't. But, to say that last year made it worse...that I don't get.
    I love our stadium now. It's not cookie cutter, it's one of a kind, it's in town and near the lake.

    The giant East stand adds a presence that can't be rivaled by other MLS stands. Put that with night games under lights and a roof. It's going to be amazing.

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    Look, two-grandstand stadiums can work. When they redeveloped Frank Clair Stadium in Ottawa, they demolished the south side and rebuilt it with no roof, but an architectural 'veil' and lower stands that partially wrapped around the end zones (not great for soccer as you're too far away from the action but the seats are cheap). On the north side, they actually *shortened* the existing roof to lessen the strain on the supports. To make the field feel enclosed, they put up a berm with an art installation at one end and a 20-story condominium at the other.
    I was in the North stand for the WWC quarterfinal between the US and China. When the Americans scored, the sound was thunderous, much greater than when I was at the BMO 5-0 Orlando game in August.
    Once the BMO renos are complete, I think the sound is going to surprise you. You'll have some bounce-back off the Food Building.

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    It's always going to be a challenge to come close to selling out TFC matches though, which will impact the game day experience live and on television. I hope I'm wrong and that a good product on the field will consistently draw 25,000-30,000 fans, but that's going to be a tall order, especially with the emergence of the Jays last season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    It's always going to be a challenge to come close to selling out TFC matches though, which will impact the game day experience live and on television. I hope I'm wrong and that a good product on the field will consistently draw 25,000-30,000 fans, but that's going to be a tall order, especially with the emergence of the Jays last season.
    We got 18K on a midweek game on the night of a Jays Playoff. Joey Bats does his flip and then Seba does his thing.

    We'll be fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I don't know how anybody could go to a game last season and not see Phase I as an improvement.
    I don't get it either. It was a big improvement. The East Stand was a small hallow stand with nothing to it before last year. Now it actually has coverage, taller, more washrooms, more food booths it just looks like more of a pro stadium. People on here complain a lot.

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    I know people like to see Premiership games where stadiums are usually full, or Champion League matches and such. But reality a lot of Clubs that are some what big clubs, play in big stadiums, have won past trophies but have really performed bad recently or in some cases performed bad for 10-15-20 years and not really performing to the standard of they once did, this is what stadiums actually look like on average.

    Birmingham City




    Millwall FC


    Sheffield Wednesday

    Aston Villa


    Nottingham Forrest


    It may not be pretty but that is reality, not all clubs are like Old Traffod and sold out usually, however the stadiums can still be loud, and when they do have big derby games exc, the stadiums are 2nd to none. BMO field doesn't look to different and in some cases has been in the same situation. Its not the end of the world because the stadium was built a bit to big for TFC.
    Last edited by james; 12-31-2015 at 01:31 AM.

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    ^@james you make a good point about attendance not being full in many stadia we look to emulate but there is a distinguishing difference in that all attendance is meant for the primary tenant. Teams go up and down but for the large majority it won't be depreciated by another tenant. Those stadiums attendance fate are set by one team alone.

    I suspect and hope we have a very full home schedule in May before the other tenant gets here.
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    I wish I knew how to easily post an image from my phone, although it wouldn't do it justice. Setting aside all the bull that's going on I have to say this roof is impressive. I'm sitting in my car outside BMO Field and this thing is awesome....just wow.

    Also, not sure if this has been mentioned but the 2 north stand structures appear ready to add a roof on the north end should one be required down the road.

    Dom

  19. #529
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    Attendance looks pretty good in this pic.


    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    Attendance looks pretty good in this pic.

    good pic. i think that was late summer game versus MTL.
    actually looks strange seeing the eastside actually full of people. usually is 1/3 full
    Last edited by Onyx; 12-31-2015 at 01:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
    good pic. i think that was late summer game versus MTL.
    actually looks strange seeing the eastside actually full of people. usually is 1/3 full
    A large factor was due to the fact Montreal had just picked up Drogba and speculation was that he was going to play in this match. If in fact this was the Montreal game later in the season

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    That game was during the Ex. The Orlando game was close to sell out as well.

  23. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    Attendance looks pretty good in this pic.
    Vs Montreal during the Ex and TFC had just scored, meaning many people were standing and thus covering empty seats. However, given that we are losing the north stand, it should help to fill in some gaps up top. Though I don't doubt that with prolonged success (and HOPEFULLY a better viewing experience) filling the stadium will really be an issue.
    Last edited by Bobo; 12-31-2015 at 04:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I dunno, I went to most home games last season. I guess the score board was better. Other than that, not sure. I thought all the empty seats due to the excessive expansion & overpriced new east-side seats, looked pretty lame in the stands and on TV. (I would rather have the view of downtown back, for before & after games and during the breaks.) I sit on the west side, and the major problems over there were not touched: water drainage problems in the concourse; unheated washrooms with mostly cold water; pipes not insulated against frost damage; etc. I haven't received any confirmation, but as far as I can tell, those problems won't be fixed this year either. (The new "canopy" is too high over the west stands, and doesn't extend far enough west, to help much with the water problems on the concourse, especially considering prevailing west winds, although it may help a bit.)
    Youre right And it's the same with the old lower east side as opposed to the newer top east side . Lower level gets flooded in any rain storm with God knows what , water is freezing the hand warmers are cold air and the food is totally better on the second level as are the washrooms warm and dry . I fear they'll never improve . Basically with the pipes they'd have to redo them all , with heat trace and insulation . The piece-mail, add on design is so typical Toronto and unfortunately accepted by so many , as what we deserve . That's why we get it .
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzy View Post
    Youre right And it's the same with the old lower east side as opposed to the newer top east side . Lower level gets flooded in any rain storm with God knows what , water is freezing the hand warmers are cold air and the food is totally better on the second level as are the washrooms warm and dry . I fear they'll never improve . Basically with the pipes they'd have to redo them all , with heat trace and insulation . The piece-mail, add on design is so typical Toronto and unfortunately accepted by so many , as what we deserve . That's why we get it .
    I don't see how they wont winterize the stadium and fix the issues you mention if they want to host the NHL winter classic.
    Last edited by Richard; 12-31-2015 at 11:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    ^@james you make a good point about attendance not being full in many stadia we look to emulate but there is a distinguishing difference in that all attendance is meant for the primary tenant. Teams go up and down but for the large majority it won't be depreciated by another tenant. Those stadiums attendance fate are set by one team alone.

    I suspect and hope we have a very full home schedule in May before the other tenant gets here.

    ya i do agree in many ways Toronto's expansion was actually for the Argos and NHL outdoor game and grey cup finals. But Toronto FC can still fill BMO from time to time. If they had a real good run one year they will sell out most games, any playoff game I think would be sold out. I also think in some ways Toronto FC fans are very different to Argos fans, I don't think it will take to much away from Toronto FC's attendance ( I hope anyways, at least in the long run I don't think it will effect Toronto FC, very different type of fans, and I still don't think Argos will be anything like going to TFC fans atmosphere with singing, flags and drums exc). Tho at first you might notice many fans running to the gates to see new BMO field at Argos games, but a lot of those fans just never wanted to see a soccer game, now they would love to see a CFL game at this new great stadium. I think eventually fans will get use to the stadium tho and the rush to the gates to see Argos at this great stadium may die down a bit a few years down the road. Overall for Argos tho I think they will do better then they did at the Sky Dome, the stadium will be good for CFL. Lets just hope it doesn't take away from the TFC games like ruining the grass!!!
    Last edited by james; 01-01-2016 at 03:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DinamoTFC View Post
    Any possible explanation as to why the roof on the West stand is so incredibly high? I don't get it. Couldnt they have made it closer to the mini roof? The west stand roof is actually slightly higher than the east stand roof making the roofs asymmetric.
    i put it out there that the other reason for the big gap on the west side is to allow evening sun into the stadium so it doesn't get so dark with the roofs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red CB Toronto View Post
    Attendance looks pretty good in this pic.

    Great Pic! BMO will look even better with the lid over it.

    There is a lot about the championship that MLS could aspire to in terms of roster depth and quality of play but this pic shows the potential MLS teams have to outdraw many of the english div 2 clubs despite a gap in quality.

    What a marketing challenge for a championship club to draw to capacity..... one year in the EPL they are selling tickets for tottenham and arsenal and the next season they are trying to sell season ticket holders on huddersfield and rotherham. No offense to these clubs but it is obviously a marketing challenge to fill a 30,000 seater like st andrews when liverpool was a potential guest vs bristol city (never mind the lack of investment for 5 years). Only promotion favourites like borough can fill the riverside with 30+ during the holiday season. Otherwise it is very difficult to draw more than 20,000 for the majority of championship clubs for any games other than derbys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoccMan2 View Post
    In terms of expanding seating , was there a way of adding more seats to 30 000 without building that massive upper deck on the east side? I sat up there a few times and you are very high up, the lower seats up there are higher the some of the higher seats in the upper deck on the west side, never mind how high up you are in the higher level seats on east side upper deck, just so far away from the field and action . I realize that some of the best stadiums in the world have seating like that where you are way up there, however, I have no problem with say a 60 000 seat stadium have a nose bleed upper stands , but we are talking about a much bigger stadium, so where else are you going to put the seats. However, I do have a problem with a stadium of barely 30 000 seats having to have a upper stand so high up, no need for it, fill in the damn open spaces you have at BMO and voila you could have easily have gotten to 30 000, instead of building that monster in the sky, you would have had a nicer more enclosed stadium with hardly any open areas, and you would have had seats closer to the action, but it seems architects in Canada only seem to know how to design the classic two big grandstand old CFL inspired stadiums that were built back in the day, see the old stadiums in Calgary, Regina, Hamilton and so on.
    Well said , since day 1 this was obvious
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I don't see how they wont winterize the stadium and fix the issues you mention if they want to host the NHL winter classic.
    You' d think they'd have to , but knowing how this is done , not sure short of complete plumbing rebuild how they will get it done . Hopefully all the piping is exposed, for removal, because the environment is not heated . It's basic science.
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