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  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    How so?

    BMO field is built cheaply and reason why upgrades cost $100 million because MLSE had to redo inside of BMO field which is costly compare to building it from scratch.

    Depending location, land wouldn't have cost as much compare to building a stadium in downtown Toronto.

    Most importantly, MLSE would have actually own and control their own stadium and keep all profits to themselves instead of sharing some of it to city.

    But let's say they did spend $250 million, just imagine how much better the stadium will be and how much more attractive it would be to host other events compare to BMO field that looks like more stadium built for university football with roofs.

    In the long term, I think they will look back and see how much they messed up on BMO field renovation.

    this iteration of BMO somewhere else in the GTA would require us to buy land, knock down whatever was currently there, then build it again. at the end of phase 3 the stadium will have cost at leas 150 million right? probably more? if we tried to build stadium anywhere else near downtown it would cost a dumb amount of money.

    But like Og say's it's a pointless conversation. we'll be at downsview with a 40-60k seat stadium by the time the league has an average payroll that rival's the Bundesliga. between 2030-2040.

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    Would this massive downsview stadium happen before or after we sign Lionell Messi Jr.?

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    Laugh now but watch the trajectory of the salary cap. The owners have basically raised it 20% in the last 2 seasons using TAM. Once the salary cap reaches a certain level, we will be competing for players with certain European leagues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    people saying shit like this is why everyone hates us.
    Im not sur.e how to take this so enjoy your holiday .
    ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Laugh now but watch the trajectory of the salary cap. The owners have basically raised it 20% in the last 2 seasons using TAM. Once the salary cap reaches a certain level, we will be competing for players with certain European leagues.
    And the salary minimum will be ? This will not happen with Garber , and certain owners we have now at New England , Dallas , Colorado........maybe competing for DP's but , they do not make a team .
    ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana

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    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    this iteration of BMO somewhere else in the GTA would require us to buy land, knock down whatever was currently there, then build it again. at the end of phase 3 the stadium will have cost at leas 150 million right? probably more? if we tried to build stadium anywhere else near downtown it would cost a dumb amount of money.

    But like Og say's it's a pointless conversation. we'll be at downsview with a 40-60k seat stadium by the time the league has an average payroll that rival's the Bundesliga. between 2030-2040.
    I consider the Bundesliga to be the #2 league in the world, I think you are a bit too optimistic, maybe MLS could get to Ligue 1 level by then.
    Last edited by Richard; 12-25-2015 at 02:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzy View Post
    And the salary minimum will be ? This will not happen with Garber , and certain owners we have now at New England , Dallas , Colorado........maybe competing for DP's but , they do not make a team .
    There was a discussion a the Men In Blazers palooza or whatever they are calling it where Roth, until recently the principal owner of the Sounders was asked a question from the floor about what he most wanted to see change in MLS. He said the salary cap had to increase significantly.

    Guess who asked him the question?

    Garber


    Now, if you think Garber didn't know the answer to that question already, you havn't been following him.

    Its coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    There was a discussion a the Men In Blazers palooza or whatever they are calling it where Roth, until recently the principal owner of the Sounders was asked a question from the floor about what he most wanted to see change in MLS. He said the salary cap had to increase significantly.

    Guess who asked him the question?

    Garber


    Now, if you think Garber didn't know the answer to that question already, you havn't been following him.

    Its coming.
    I don't see it happening ... the weaker clubs run the league because they are so many and strong clubs are only a few. Why do you think they introduced this complicated TAM/"4th" DP, no support to do a increase to the cap. now MX is basically using MLS as a farm league and the league doesn't do a thing to keep its players.

    Its all the weak teams. look at Vancouver is losing $6M per year, and thats before the C$ nosedived ... and they are way stronger financially the all the really weak mid-american teams that barely get 10,000/game (excluding KC/RSL). do you think philly, colorado, portland, DC, houston, Dallas, columbus, sje, etc ... would ever support raising the cap?
    Last edited by Onyx; 12-26-2015 at 01:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The only alternative to the Ex would be a stadium at Downsview. When MLSE moves TFC there around 2030, they will be building a 60K stadium that can be scaled down to 45K. We will need it by then.

    There is no use building something small now when they will be building something bigger later.

    This is a stadium built to survive the next 15 years.
    what is this fantasy future football?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    How so?

    BMO field is built cheaply and reason why upgrades cost $100 million because MLSE had to redo inside of BMO field which is costly compare to building it from scratch.

    Depending location, land wouldn't have cost as much compare to building a stadium in downtown Toronto.

    Most importantly, MLSE would have actually own and control their own stadium and keep all profits to themselves instead of sharing some of it to city.

    But let's say they did spend $250 million, just imagine how much better the stadium will be and how much more attractive it would be to host other events compare to BMO field that looks like more stadium built for university football with roofs.

    In the long term, I think they will look back and see how much they messed up on BMO field renovation.
    you guys are getting redicuolous with this. I think some of you have gone off the rails beyond just a little complaining. Acting as if this is the worst stadium ever built, what a bunch of whiners!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    Lets be honest even if it was a "first rate" design people would still complain about it. It is what Toronto Sports fans do. Nothing is ever good enough for Fans in Toronto.


    nothing about the roof makes the watching experience any less. All the Complaints are about the Narcissistic issues with the Supporter groups because all they care about is the chanting... we've scored goals in the south end where supporter groups were the last to know because they were too busy chanting in French at each other. That is what this is all about.. Supporters groups want a better stages for them, not for the boys on the pitch.

    Northend I'm pissed about. the lies told about the design I'm pissed (ie retractable seating) .. the Argos coming in for free really, I'm pissed. The Roof I'm not worried about. People love to complain about "fairweather fans" the roof will help keep them there so it will do well.

    If it was an ultra modern fully redesigned stadium, people will say it isn't a classic enough, or it is ugly, it is style over function.


    The stadium is larger, there is a roof that will help keep people in their seats, the seats are still red, the pitch is still grass, next summer we will discover how bad the CFL will destroy it.. but at least for this year it is still grass.

    All I care about is if I go to the game I can see the pitch and watch soccer. The rest is meaningless to me, it is some place to sit down. If I can sit down without getting rained on, great, if I get rained on.. meh. The Wind has always been an issue. I remember watch a Labrocca free kick catching the wind and going in the net.

    BMO is a stadium that is a patchwork stadium, with history, many European stadiums are patchwork stadiums. It is a place to watch the game. Nothing more. As long as I can see the pitch and I can take a pee that is all I need.
    yup so true.

    also why are we saying we will get wet? (Yes ive seen the pictures with the gaps). It was shown a few pages back that some stadiums have roofs with gaps actually in Europe. Look maybe some fans might get wet...most will not. Has anyone noticed that some stadiums in England and Europe fans near the from row get wet? well i've seen it and actually have gotten wet for being to close to the field. Is is the end of the world? no, most fans will be dry. Also do we even know we will get wet? what if it turns out all the fans are actually kept dry? some us might start to look stupid for all this complaining. If a few do get wet tho they will probably jump up and say 'I Told you so" even tho 95% of us are dry.

    Patchwork stadium....most stadiums in Europe are patchwork stadiums, just look back to page 10 in this thread, I posted a whole bunch of photos of patchwork stadiums in the UK, and that was a tiny sample just so you got the idea, majority of all stadiums in Europe are dam patchwork stadiums!!!
    Last edited by james; 12-26-2015 at 04:44 AM.

  12. #462
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    now if the fans were to get wet....have a look at these

    this is Arsenal stadium shown again and was shown a few pages back in this thread



    and this was Portos stadium

    Now do people get wet at these stadiums?? I don't know actually.

    But say fans do get wet at BMO field, there could still be perhaps ways to stop fans from getting wet, here is West Ham stadium, Aston Villa nd Everton who use glass at the sides of stands...were they built to keep out rain? I am not sure but I think the glass was added to keep out rain, either way it works if it was to rain sideways. Perhaps something like this could be installed to BMO field in the near future? added at the sides..or to fill in the gaps between the seats and roof? or perhaps some sort of tarp could just be laid to block out wind and rain? either way, people don't panic, there are ways to add to the stadium in the future, this years construction is not the final of all construction at BMO field, don't panic people!





    Last edited by james; 12-26-2015 at 05:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    There was a discussion a the Men In Blazers palooza or whatever they are calling it where Roth, until recently the principal owner of the Sounders was asked a question from the floor about what he most wanted to see change in MLS. He said the salary cap had to increase significantly.

    Guess who asked him the question?

    Garber


    Now, if you think Garber didn't know the answer to that question already, you havn't been following him.

    Its coming.

    Missed point , they they can raise the cap all they want ......but having $50,000/ players playing with millionaires does not a league make . The salary minimum has to raise substantially . Not $ for DP's . That is when I'll know they are serious . I mean with the expansion they want who will fill the rosters ?
    ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana

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    As someone has aptly pointed out previously, adding side walls to the stands may obscure sightless for football. I believe the end of the stands line up with the goal lines for football. Therefore fans sitting in the upper portions of the stadium will not see plays deep in the end zones. Glass walls may be an option. However I do recall Bob Hunter saying that a fulll enclosure adds considerable costs due to the wind loads that the overall structure has to endure. In other words the stadium needs to be built much better and stronger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OTDude82 View Post
    As someone has aptly pointed out previously, adding side walls to the stands may obscure sightless for football. I believe the end of the stands line up with the goal lines for football. Therefore fans sitting in the upper portions of the stadium will not see plays deep in the end zones. Glass walls may be an option. However I do recall Bob Hunter saying that a fulll enclosure adds considerable costs due to the wind loads that the overall structure has to endure. In other words the stadium needs to be built much better and stronger.
    old cne had glass


  16. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by OTDude82 View Post
    As someone has aptly pointed out previously, adding side walls to the stands may obscure sightless for football. I believe the end of the stands line up with the goal lines for football. Therefore fans sitting in the upper portions of the stadium will not see plays deep in the end zones. Glass walls may be an option. However I do recall Bob Hunter saying that a fulll enclosure adds considerable costs due to the wind loads that the overall structure has to endure. In other words the stadium needs to be built much better and stronger.

    Who cares it is a Soccer Stadium the city is making us damage the soccer experience for a welfare case CFL team.. if they can't see it... then Larry Christmastree and bell can build them their own stadium.

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    Does anyone know if that is glass at Emirates Stadium (arsenal) between the back rows and the roof?? kind of looks like it could be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
    I don't see it happening ... the weaker clubs run the league because they are so many and strong clubs are only a few. Why do you think they introduced this complicated TAM/"4th" DP, no support to do a increase to the cap. now MX is basically using MLS as a farm league and the league doesn't do a thing to keep its players.

    Its all the weak teams. look at Vancouver is losing $6M per year, and thats before the C$ nosedived ... and they are way stronger financially the all the really weak mid-american teams that barely get 10,000/game (excluding KC/RSL). do you think philly, colorado, portland, DC, houston, Dallas, columbus, sje, etc ... would ever support raising the cap?
    In the last CBA the owners were prepared to raise the cap substantially but the players wanted free agency instead.
    nerveless the owners are still going to invest and extra 37 million in players salaries.

    I don't see how the Whitecaps could be stronger financially than Philly, Colorado, Portland, Houston, Dallas, Columbus, since all those teams own or control their stadiums revenues which is probably the biggest part of being profitable in MLS than anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
    old cne had glass

    Ya it did but it was a very long grandstand. It was much longer than the old CFL Field of 160 yards (back when end zones were 25 yards each). If you sat against that glass wall, you were probably 15 yards past the end touch line of the end zone. That glass didn't block anybody's view.

    That was one monster grandstand. It held 22k all by itself!

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    The Emirates, aside from the terrible name, is a gorgeous stadium.
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

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    Not a fan of the emirates. Just another soulless bowl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest Ripoff View Post
    Not a fan of the emirates. Just another soulless bowl.

    ya well ur rong - and now we must fight.
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

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    Boxing Day Deathmatch - Begin!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen View Post
    ya well ur rong - and now we must fight.
    Just my opinion but places like emirates and etihad don't have much to offer in terms of football experience. Been there a few times and there is no atmosphere. There is also nothing interesting or unique about the ground.

    I'd rather go to somewhere like Griffin Park, Craven Cottage and as much as it pains me to say something positive about spurs, White Hart Lane is great ground to go to as an away supporter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest Ripoff View Post
    Just my opinion but places like emirates and etihad don't have much to offer in terms of football experience. Been there a few times and there is no atmosphere. There is also nothing interesting or unique about the ground.

    I'd rather go to somewhere like Griffin Park, Craven Cottage and as much as it pains me to say something positive about spurs, White Hart Lane is great ground to go to as an away supporter.
    MOD EDIT: This comment is pretty obviously out of line, and will only cause a hurricane of spittle for the mods to clean up later. Any followups along these lines will be an infraction. We'll leave it at that. ~Shakes

    ah. I can see that you mistook what I meant. I didn't mean that city or arsenal fans were shit themselves as people or shit at being supporters of their clubs, cuz, ya know, to each his own. I just meant that the lack of atmosphere has little to do with the acoustic set-up of the stadium, and more so that arsenal and city fans - as well as the majority of fans who attend PL games - aren't a very vocal bunch. Not entirely the average fan's fault as the young casual has been priced out by old farts and tourist's, but it's still the case none the less. I wasn't trying to be controversial. It's a very common criticism in England.

    regardless, I understand the mix-up. I'll be more clear in the future.
    Last edited by molenshtain; 12-28-2015 at 04:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
    old cne had glass

    Thats a great picture, which I haven't seen before. It was a great stand with 60 rows ( I know I have sat in the last row). It was also loud and held 21,000 same as the entire BMO Field prior to the renovation. The stand did extend to the back of the end zones so sight lines were good. Except of course those pillars which were standard for stands of the day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest Ripoff View Post
    Just my opinion but places like emirates and etihad don't have much to offer in terms of football experience. Been there a few times and there is no atmosphere. There is also nothing interesting or unique about the ground.

    I'd rather go to somewhere like Griffin Park, Craven Cottage and as much as it pains me to say something positive about spurs, White Hart Lane is great ground to go to as an away supporter.
    You can always call it Shite Hart Lane and at least not feel so dirty about saying something positive about spurs... Did enjoy the away end there for sightlines and atmosphere, but not so much for the away fan amenities. Felt like a level up from county jail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest Ripoff View Post
    Just my opinion but places like emirates and etihad don't have much to offer in terms of football experience. Been there a few times and there is no atmosphere. There is also nothing interesting or unique about the ground.

    I'd rather go to somewhere like Griffin Park, Craven Cottage and as much as it pains me to say something positive about spurs, White Hart Lane is great ground to go to as an away supporter.
    see I agree with you, I don't actually like Emarites, it was more of an example tho of the roof having a gap between the stands and the roof. Overall I actually like old stadiums in England, all my favourite stadiums have uneven size stands, different size roofs, and they are all stadiums that have been renovated through out there 100+ years, however some people bitch that BMO is the worst stadium because it is uneven stands ( even tho majority of soccer stadiums around the world are built uneven stands). In a way, BMO (and I will throw Portland Timbers stadium in there to) actually are closer to my favourite stadiums in England then any other stadium in MLS. Could the stadium been built better? yes, do I hate Argos playing at BMO? yes, Do I wish North Stand was still there? yes. Does it mean the North Stand is gone forever? no. Does it mean its the worst stadium in MLS because the roof has gaps in? no its still an impressive roof, better then probably 90% in MLS. You wont here me bitch about this stadium unless the Argos ruin are grass....then things will change and I will be bitching like no other about them ruining our stadium and then I might say this whole thing was a bad idea. But otherwise, its gonna be a nice stadium, better then it was in 2007 that is for sure!
    Last edited by james; 12-27-2015 at 01:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OTDude82 View Post
    Thats a great picture, which I haven't seen before. It was a great stand with 60 rows ( I know I have sat in the last row). It was also loud and held 21,000 same as the entire BMO Field prior to the renovation. The stand did extend to the back of the end zones so sight lines were good. Except of course those pillars which were standard for stands of the day.
    You forgot to mention that they used fire hoses to wash it down after events and since most of the rows never saw the sun it always smelled somewhere between rotting wood and wet cement.

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    But on a sunny weekend afternoon, it was a great place to go for $2 - might even watch some of the baseball.

 

 

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