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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuSaPuNk View Post
    Well saying there piggy backing off success of other brands in there portfolio doesnt really show incompetent ownership now does it?
    hmmm the first thing that comes to mind is the Marlies Ransom pack TFC ticket package holders had to buy a few seasons back... That's a good example of 1 brand trying to feed off the success of another in the same portfolio. Would you say that experiment was a success?

    As for Tannenbaum, he doesn't have a great history in the sports world when it comes to piggy backing off other teams successes - unless you are only focused on the financial aspects of the moves.

    He failed to land an NBA team in Toronto, so he purchased one a few years later along with their stadium, then shoe horned the Maple Leafs into the plans which effectively killed the atmosphere for hockey games that once existed at MLG. There are areas in that arena where you can't see parts of the ice for Leaf games and you are still paying almost $70 a ticket for it. Sure corporate greed (lead by Tannenbaum) played a key role in killing that atmosphere, but stadium design plays a huge part in that as well.

    At the end of the day, just because two brands exists in the same portfolio - doesn't mean they are a match made in heaven. This is a stadium that was built with a specific purpose and is now being shoe horned to accommodate two separate experiences.

    I've only used MLSE examples here because it seems like you have information that says MLSE are the actual owners of the Argos. So these are great examples of that specific ownerships incompetence when it comes to merging/sharing properties and resources.

    Anyone who works in the ad industry will tell you the merger of two agencies based on the success of one rarely works out.
    This one is a stretch, but it is yet another example of two brands coming together for mutual benefit and failing.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard View Post
    The roof on the east side does actually meet the back of the grandstand. The west side is another story all together. I don't know if the gap is to make it easier to rebuild or modify the west side the gap appears to be quite big.

    It will be terrible for television as (as with Philadelphia), we'll end up with the shadow of the roof on the pitch, then a sunlit gap and then the shadow of the stand. It will visually awful.
    My guess is the west side roof configuration is because they're being cheap. They don't want to change the existing structure with the press boxes and the mini roof, so the new roof goes over top.

    Very good point about the sun coming through the west-side gap onto the field, I hadn't thought about that.

    Also didn't somebody say that the roof config & gaps are partly due to the strong winds at BMO, needing to leave spots for the wind to escape? Probably the east stands, being all new construction, were properly spec'd for a connected roof, whereas the west wasn't. In the south they want to leave the gap anyway, for the extra Winter Classic seating.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 12-02-2015 at 09:35 PM.

  3. #273
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    We have all been to so many TFC games when it has rained and now we get a roof that will let it rain on a substantial number of seats. Brilliant design. The east and west side roofs will look different with one side open and the other closed. The south side will have an open roof which won't hold the sound and will let rain pour on the most loyal tfc supporters. The north end will likely be a bush league looking patio seting area. The stadium experience matters which is why most every big city has a unique stadium for baseball, football and soccer. Almost all teams have realized thetly need to attract people to stadiums with a graet experience, otherwise we can all watch on our big screens at home and pass on going to see the game live. Shame on for Toronto for continuing to disrespect our fans with compromises eveywhere.

  4. #274
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    I don't want to go on a premature rant but the new BMO is going to look like shit with uneven roofs heights, open ended north sides, no corners filled in and not to mention the gaps people are talking about.

    Is it so fucking hard to build a proper football stadium like Goodison Park these days, fuck sakes at least before we could call BMO our special tin can home but now we got the Argo's inhabiting it.

    One can hope MLSE gets its head out of its ass and builds us a proper football stadium because fuck the new stadium.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red100 View Post
    We have all been to so many TFC games when it has rained and now we get a roof that will let it rain on a substantial number of seats. Brilliant design. The east and west side roofs will look different with one side open and the other closed. The south side will have an open roof which won't hold the sound and will let rain pour on the most loyal tfc supporters. The north end will likely be a bush league looking patio seting area. The stadium experience matters which is why most every big city has a unique stadium for baseball, football and soccer. Almost all teams have realized thetly need to attract people to stadiums with a graet experience, otherwise we can all watch on our big screens at home and pass on going to see the game live. Shame on for Toronto for continuing to disrespect our fans with compromises eveywhere.
    Pro-football isn't that big in Toronto which is why we will never see a NFL team in Toronto while there isn't enough interest in Argos to build them their own stadium. So building football stadium in Toronto/GTA doesn't make sense at all.

    So this pretty much leaves soccer, but problem is "domestic" league (MLS is American first league despite having 3 CDN teams) quality isn't that great. But once MLS or future Canadian league quality grows, then maybe we will see "world class" soccer stadium popping up in this city or region somewhere.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I don't want to go on a premature rant but the new BMO is going to look like shit with uneven roofs heights, open ended north sides, no corners filled in and not to mention the gaps people are talking about.

    Is it so fucking hard to build a proper football stadium like Goodison Park these days, fuck sakes at least before we could call BMO our special tin can home but now we got the Argo's inhabiting it.

    One can hope MLSE gets its head out of its ass and builds us a proper football stadium because fuck the new stadium.
    Amount of money they're putting into BMO field, I highly doubt we will see them build another stadium for soccer or football.

  7. #277
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    I would watch them at Lamport. I'm not really bothered by all this.

    Yeah they've fucked it up royally... somehow! But whatever.
    Last edited by Brooker; 12-03-2015 at 03:23 AM.

  8. #278
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    The North Stand being taken down is disappointing, but as I did mention before this was a common thing in England in the early to mid 90's as stadiums were torn and rebuilt (some took years, and some seasons had complete stands gone while they continued to play matches at home in a stadium under construction). Today many stadiums still play in uneven ends and different size roofs as stadiums were often renovated while being surrounded by densely built housing neighborhoods. I hope something can be done to fill in the North Stand in future years, just because it is gone this year does not mean there is nothing that can be done next year or years later to improve it. I really am praying the real grass will work with no sign of Argos presence. The uneven stands...I wouldn't even worry about it. I am sad to see many old England stadiums go as yes they looked rough but they had great ATMOSPHERE, some of the best in the world, today many stadiums are much more quiet (tho that has more to do with strict police and security and high prices and stadiums enforcing fans to sit down). But many went through hard times to look like they do today, and some many new stadiums in Europe have an electric atmosphere (Germany is a great example). The stadium is going to be better then it was in 2007 as long as Argos presence is not noticable.
    Last edited by james; 12-03-2015 at 05:07 AM.

  9. #279
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    A few examples of old stadiums

    Stamford Bridge Chelsea:











    Last edited by james; 12-03-2015 at 05:19 AM.

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    St,James Park - Newcastle






  11. #281
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    Celtic Park







    Last edited by james; 12-03-2015 at 05:05 AM.

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    White Hart Lane - Tottenham






  13. #283
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    Villa Park- Aston Villa







  14. #284
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    Goodison Park - Everton











    Last edited by james; 12-03-2015 at 05:30 AM.

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    Anfield - Liverpool









    And more development continues to expand Anfield as houses are demolished to make way for new construction (many houses in the Anfield area have been in abandoned and or in deep decay for a long time now, however some locals continue to live in neighborhoods like this, or can't afford to leave. It has not been a pretty part of town for a long time.











    Last edited by james; 12-03-2015 at 05:58 AM.

  16. #286
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    In the last image before "...and more development" what is the stadium in the background?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastend View Post
    In the last image before "...and more development" what is the stadium in the background?

    Goodison Park

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastend View Post
    In the last image before "...and more development" what is the stadium in the background?
    Goodison Park.

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    They look close but it's a long ass walk from Goodison to Anfield

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    it's not that bad - only 20 minutes - same as Shoeless to BMO

  21. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    They look close but it's a long ass walk from Goodison to Anfield
    I find it funny that it's a long ass walk. I would love to be able to be within walking distance of two professional football stadiums. Both being better than what we will end up with.

  22. #292
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    San Siro. Some similarities to BMO in that the roof was added during the last reno.






  23. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    it's not that bad - only 20 minutes - same as Shoeless to BMO
    I was there with my old schoolboy club back in the day. We did a tour of Goodison then walked to Anfield for a tour. Must have taken us nearly an hour, probably took the wrong way

  24. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Pro-football isn't that big in Toronto which is why we will never see a NFL team in Toronto while there isn't enough interest in Argos to build them their own stadium. So building football stadium in Toronto/GTA doesn't make sense at all.

    So this pretty much leaves soccer, but problem is "domestic" league (MLS is American first league despite having 3 CDN teams) quality isn't that great. But once MLS or future Canadian league quality grows, then maybe we will see "world class" soccer stadium popping up in this city or region somewhere.
    Having watched my kids bring in households of friends over the years - they're now in university - I have seen and heard massive interest in pro football.

    But strictly NFL football. My oldest participates in two fantasy leagues and regularly travels with groups of pals to take in games in Buffalo, Cleveland and Detroit. On my street and around my inner city neighbourhood, there's big interest in the NFL. No one, absolutely no one, gives a flea's fanny for the CFL.

    Both my personal and sports business experience says that if the NFL put a team here, it would be a runaway success. Corporations would throw serious coin at it and it would draw fans from well beyond Toronto. Plus, if positioned in the AFC, it would enjoy a massive rivalry with Buffalo or Cleveland.

    MLSE can trot out all the optimistic talk they want about the Argos - and they had Mike Clemons in the ACC delivering the corporate gospel not long after Seba's MVP award - but the Argos are part of something that Toronto has outgrown. This city, collectively, really doesn't care about tier-two sports experiences anymore. The Marlies could win the AHL title and it wouldn't command daily conversations like the way the Jays did this past season. The Argos won the 2012 Greh Cup they hosted (rigged?) and season ticket sales declined.

    But the NFL in Toronto? No brainer to succeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    Having watched my kids bring in households of friends over the years - they're now in university - I have seen and heard massive interest in pro football.

    But strictly NFL football. My oldest participates in two fantasy leagues and regularly travels with groups of pals to take in games in Buffalo, Cleveland and Detroit. On my street and around my inner city neighbourhood, there's big interest in the NFL. No one, absolutely no one, gives a flea's fanny for the CFL.

    Both my personal and sports business experience says that if the NFL put a team here, it would be a runaway success. Corporations would throw serious coin at it and it would draw fans from well beyond Toronto. Plus, if positioned in the AFC, it would enjoy a massive rivalry with Buffalo or Cleveland.

    MLSE can trot out all the optimistic talk they want about the Argos - and they had Mike Clemons in the ACC delivering the corporate gospel not long after Seba's MVP award - but the Argos are part of something that Toronto has outgrown. This city, collectively, really doesn't care about tier-two sports experiences anymore. The Marlies could win the AHL title and it wouldn't command daily conversations like the way the Jays did this past season. The Argos won the 2012 Greh Cup they hosted (rigged?) and season ticket sales declined.

    But the NFL in Toronto? No brainer to succeed.
    Similar experience but more of your sons age. I used to watch NFL all day on sunday and play fantasy football but not even once did i think about the CFL.

    I disagree about the NFL being a run away success. They could be a success but you don't get the same atmosphere here without 1. tailgating and 2. a sports owner realizing they have to create and nurture a market not just acquire a team and gouge fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    Having watched my kids bring in households of friends over the years - they're now in university - I have seen and heard massive interest in pro football.

    But strictly NFL football. My oldest participates in two fantasy leagues and regularly travels with groups of pals to take in games in Buffalo, Cleveland and Detroit. On my street and around my inner city neighbourhood, there's big interest in the NFL. No one, absolutely no one, gives a flea's fanny for the CFL.

    Both my personal and sports business experience says that if the NFL put a team here, it would be a runaway success. Corporations would throw serious coin at it and it would draw fans from well beyond Toronto. Plus, if positioned in the AFC, it would enjoy a massive rivalry with Buffalo or Cleveland.

    MLSE can trot out all the optimistic talk they want about the Argos - and they had Mike Clemons in the ACC delivering the corporate gospel not long after Seba's MVP award - but the Argos are part of something that Toronto has outgrown. This city, collectively, really doesn't care about tier-two sports experiences anymore. The Marlies could win the AHL title and it wouldn't command daily conversations like the way the Jays did this past season. The Argos won the 2012 Greh Cup they hosted (rigged?) and season ticket sales declined.

    But the NFL in Toronto? No brainer to succeed.

    But MLS is tier 3/4 in the world of soccer, only upside is that it can one day become tier 1, the other leagues cant.


    I want to CFL to succeed, but it needs to rethink its approach. should much more regional, Barrie, kingston, windsor, waterloo, etcc., then they only meet further teams in the playoffs

  27. #297
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    This is a city of suits. That demographic is what would drive the financial success of a possible NFL team. Them folks like to tailgate in plushly appointed lounges. With wine lists.

    That doesn't mean a stadium built at Downsview wouldn't have space for tailgating. But I just don't see tailgating happening in Toronto. Nor do I see the absence of it being a deal breaker. Just light a soon-to-be legal joint and hit the concession stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    But MLS is tier 3/4 in the world of soccer, only upside is that it can one day become tier 1, the other leagues cant.


    I want to CFL to succeed, but it needs to rethink its approach. should much more regional, Barrie, kingston, windsor, waterloo, etcc., then they only meet further teams in the playoffs
    I'm content for it to succeed, too. I enjoyed it as a kid. But not at the expense of quality soccer. And the Argos presence at BMO Field only serves to diminish that quality and possibly lessen the appeal of TFC to quality players we might be looking to sign.

    What CFL proponents don't seem to be aware of is that when the CFL was a decent league decades back, they were a strong alternative league for players who wouldn't make the NFL. Nowadays, each NFL club pays CFL wages - or higher - to a group of players not officially on their roster, a shadow squad, to stay available and be ready to join the practice squad in the event of injuries to players.

    Those players, and the players who form the practice squad, were once more likely to join the CFL, elevating the overall quality of play. By not taking stricter measures against this practice, the NFL is tacitly working to undermine the quality of the CFL.

    The quality of MLS, on the other hand, gets better and better each year. When you look at the quality and overall wealth of the MLS owners compared to CFL owners, it's obvious that one league is in an upward spiral and the other struggling to maintain altitude. We're having to tolerate Tanenbaum and Co. propping up a wounded duck in order to let them pursue the golden goose of a NFL team.
    Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 12-03-2015 at 11:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy View Post
    San Siro. Some similarities to BMO in that the roof was added during the last reno.





    Craven Cottage, tho rather small, also had the End stands roof added later. There was probably many roofs added later, tho San Siro probably was the biggest stadium to add a massive roof on later. (Marseille is Pretty huge tho to, recently added a new roof)







    Funny in the first picture you really see how some of those stadiums were rotting away as grass and bushes grew into the terraces.
    Last edited by james; 12-03-2015 at 02:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhitenorf View Post
    This is a city of suits. That demographic is what would drive the financial success of a possible NFL team. Them folks like to tailgate in plushly appointed lounges. With wine lists.

    That doesn't mean a stadium built at Downsview wouldn't have space for tailgating. But I just don't see tailgating happening in Toronto. Nor do I see the absence of it being a deal breaker. Just light a soon-to-be legal joint and hit the concession stands.
    Suits don't wear suits on Sunday. Proper tailgate would be awesome....but will never happen here....and I hate to say never.

 

 

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