Took him one match in charge to ruin the shape and never fix it.Originally Posted by MightyDM
Yes, he should be given at least another half season.
No, but only if Jason Kreis takes over as head coach.
No, he had his chance. Someone else should be brought in.
I'm fine with either outcome. He can stay or go.
Took him one match in charge to ruin the shape and never fix it.
I would expect Manning to sit down with Vanney in the near future and discuss his long term vision for the club going forward and to listen to Vanney's plans and philosophy for the coming season.
There has been some progression, although obviously still a lot to to improve. Assuming both parties are in line with their expectations and vision in the short term, I’d give Vanney another half a season before his position is re-evaluated. Although there are examples of quick fixes, and fast turn arounds, stability breeds success, and an open door policy towards coaches, managers and philosophies isn't a model that is likely to bring sustainable success.
Replace Vanney with Kreis or not at all. Just my opinion.
I've long since thrown in the towel as far as coaching decisions go. Whatever happens, get it over with. We're reaching nervous breakdown territory.
From what I gather, Manning has given Vanney an ultimatum. If the team concedes more than 40 goals next year, Vanney is gone.
I was hoping for something more strict, such as if the team is not above .500 by mid-season, show him the door.
Last edited by ronzilla; 11-04-2015 at 09:26 PM.
There's no way that they've set a GA limit. Coaches are judged based on results, not on their statistics
Actually it was 45 goals.
*The team can’t concede more than 45 goals in 2016."
*The expectation is for Vanney’s side to collect a minimum of eight points through its first eight games. "
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/11/03...e-amends-in-16
Manning straight up says in his press conference he told Vanney the team has to allow 45 goals or less next year.
It's not so much the number itself, that's just about where you need your defense to be at to be a successful team. 45 GA is about average. If our offense stays the same but our defense improves to 45 GA, we probably jump up a few spots in the table.
Let's not get stuck on the 8 pts in 8 games, and "45 goals or less" statements. At the end of the day it's all about one thing: are we winning. I never cared if we conceded goals as much as we were winning games, and climbing the table. It's fine to talk about goals at the half mark or whatever, but at the end of the day if you can't field a good squad, or coach it properly, then we will end up with the short end of the stick.
I actually think "45 goals or less" is key, because it's a benchmark to aim for in improving the defence, after it was so awful this year. Sure if TFC scores more goals than the opponent they win no matter what. But scoring goals in footy is hard. Even Seba went cold for bits here in there. If teams learn better ways to shutdown Seba; or if there are some injuries & international absences, they should be able to grind out wins & ties with a stingy defence, even if they aren't scoring many goals.
I'm all for stability and agree with Manning that the team needs it, unfortunately I don't believe Vanney is the guy that they should be starting the stability era with.
Stability with Vanney means giving up giving up 1.7 goals a game. That is not stability that wins.
I have to wonder why on Earth he took away Caldwell's captaincy. Stripping it from a player who has captained throughout his career and giving it to Bradley, who seems completely focussed on playing and not motivating teammates, was absolutely asinine. Caldwell might have been the steadying influence on Perquis all season that we needed.
Dumb decision with vast consequences, sort of like signing a striker whose mother really runs the show.
“At the end of the day, people don’t follow armbands—they follow leaders.” -Steven Caldwell
That really was a dumb move by TFC.
I'd never thought of it that way, but you are right.
i was disappointed at the time but didn't see the significance. You are right, and they should have seen that.
Usually in in the first half, too.
The question's been answered, most are willing to ditch Vanney either outright or if a much better coach comes along. Now the discussion is duplicating the "deathwatch" thread, so closing this so that we can have the Vanney must go sentiments in one thread:
http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showth...-Thread/page49
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
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